SeattlePioneer 144 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 The SM's son should have an Assistant Scoutmaster who acts as the SM for that boy, in my view. One reason is to avoid making the program too easy. Another is to avoid making it too hard. I can think of several others. Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Our troop has an ASM do the SM conference with the SM's son. Now, the SM does sign off on all blue cards, but as long as he's not the MBC, I don't see the problem with that. Our general rule is that parents can only sign off on their son's achievements, if done in a group setting with other boys (and none for MB). Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 ASM being the acting SM for the SM's son is for both reasons--SM being too easy or too hard on his own son. I know if I were signing off requirements, I'd be much harder on my own son, primarily due to not wanting the appearance of impropriety or unfairness. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Seattle, that's what I did with my son, had an ASM act as his SM, did every SMC for him. Son and I both thanked him during son's ECOH for playing a big role in his earning Eagle. I did not sign off on any requirement for him, either rank or MB. I'm not sure even this would stop "Skating". I've seen kids quit a troop and go to another one less strict just to GET Eagle. If a boy really wants to skate he gets his dad to be the troop's advancement chair and then get him to volunteer on the district's advancement committee. That way dad can put you in for MBs you didn't earn and get one of his buddies on the district advancement team to grease the skids so you slid right through. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Eagle 732, I'd say I don't believe you except that I've seen that kind of thing myself. My favorite personal experience was with a doting father who was Committee Chair. His son failed his Life Scoutmaster conference but dad signed him off on it anyway. The SM did know how to deal with that, so he got the rank. When it came time for his Eagle SM conference he failed again. By that time dad wasn't CC anymore, and he moved his son to another Troop, where he was someone else's problem. Personally I never saw a boy less ready to be Eagle. Generally speaking I'd have categorized him as a reasonably competent Second Class Scout. However, not long before his Eagle SM Conference, he'd gotten lost at an overnight at a state park, been trapped in the shower house at summer camp because he couldn't figure out how to change his pants, articulately but bitterly complained that we were camping rather than staying in hotels, and refused to get out of the sack when we were getting packed up to leave summer camp. (In full view of his father, other adult leaders and the Scouts, I pulled the foot of his sleeping bag until he was finally out of the sack.) He wasn't a bad kid, just lazy and spoiled. He was really a hoot!(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer) Link to post Share on other sites
nolesrule 61 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 How do you fail a scoutmaster conference rank requirement? Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 His son failed his Life Scoutmaster conference but dad signed him off on it anyway. You can't fail a Scoutmaster Conference at any rank. The requirement states Take part in a Scoutmaster conference There is no pass/fail. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Yah, every troop handles QC differently, eh? Some have well-trained BOR members who delay advancement when appropriate. Lots of times, though, especially when just usin' regular parents for BORs, yeh see troops use the SM conference as the "last requirement" before the BOR, and it is the quality control step, fulfilling da functions that traditionally go with a BOR (make sure the boy has learned, find out about his experience in the troop, encourage further advancement). Both work fine. For Eagle, of course, it's the SM's decision after the SMC whether or not to sign off on da Eagle application. So in that sense, there is a possibility for the SM to defer/dissent on advancement. Beavah Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 No one can't fail a SMC but ... Say a boy has issues during a camping trip and the Scoutmaster schedules a conference with the boy to discuss his behavior. The Scout is a 1st Class scout. At the end of the the conference, the boy shoves his Scout Handbook to his Scoutmaster and asks him to sign off on the SMC for Star. Has he not participated in a SMC while 1st Class? Yes, but when I was in charge of the advancement in the troop, as Scoutmater, I would not sign of on that requirement. Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePioneer 144 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 So what methods are used for boys to skate on their Eagle project? Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Call it whatever you want - fail, put on hold, deferred. I had a Scout in December who had completed all the requirements for Tenderfoot. On the December camping trip, he got into some fisticuffs with another Scout - they've had issues. Scout A told Scout B that if he grabbed him again, he was going to hit him in the face, which he did. At the next meeting, Scout A was scheduled for his Tenderfoot SM conference. We talked about what happened, and I asked him if he felt he was living up to the Scout Oath and Law. To his credit, he said no. He didn't get Tenderfoot at the December COH, but he showed improvement in his behavior at all the meetings and our January outing. We had another quick SM conference to discuss his progress, he had his BOR, and he received his Tenderfoot Tuesday night. So, no, he didn't just participate in a SM conference and go on to his BOR. Link to post Share on other sites
Venividi 35 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Great job, BrentAllen. Both Scout A and the rest of the troop will see that the adults walk the talk. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If you schedule a SMC and hold a SMC, the requirement is complete. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Yea, the requirement ay be complete even if its not signed off by the SM. And feel free to schedule a BOR without the SMs signature and see how far you get. I've never had to NOT sign after a SMC but if I did it would be followed up by a letter to the Scout and a copy to the CC. Can the committee refuse to hold a BOR if a Scout doesn't have the SM signature? In reality it should never get this far. In a perfect world the SM would talk with the Scout, who would willingly accept the SM's advice, make the changes necessary, and be successful at his next BOR. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 A few times I have told Scouts, "Since we have in fact, conferred, I'm going to sign off of the SMC requirement, but I think we agree you need some more work on XYZ requirements. Even though I'm signing the SMC, you're not quite ready for a board of review. Work on XYZ and get back to me. You don't have to do another whole SMC, just show me you've got XYZ down and you can move forward with your board of review." And then I always communicate that to the Advancement Chairman. Only once has a Scout tried to schedule a board with out my okay. There are a hundred was to handle the situation..... Link to post Share on other sites
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