APL- Not a POR? Why?

[gcnphkr 11]

I had one scout that wanted the position until I told him what was involved and that was the last I heard from him about it. The local council promoted one about 9 months ago. Looks like there is one (not BSA hosted) coming up in November, I'll need to contact the trainer and see if they are taking youth--not that I have anyone wanting to go.

 

My main point was that this is not an easy POR.

[raisinemright 13]

Mike F, I agree, it's not about speeding boys through. I don't buy the whole 1st class in a year thing. Learning all those skills are too important to rush. I was just giving an example of what happened to my son and how an APL can be a responsible position. In his case, he had already been a PL for 1 or 2 years, but those positions didn't count toward his next rank. Once we figured out what the deal was, it was too late to take on another position since he was going to get his turn as PL in a couple months. He got over it, moved on from there to ASPL. He will probably be the SPL for a new troop several of us families are starting.

[Stosh 3452]

Hmmmm....really good question.... I guess I don't see the APL a "learning experience". Otherwise ASPL would fall into that same category.

 

I work as an administrative assistant for the general manager of an international business. I have only one job, and that's to make my boss look good. I make sure the details are covered and he is freed up to do his job without worrying about whether or not his back is covered.

 

I'll take a good APL over a poor PL any day because in spite of a PL's inability to lead, a good APL will still make it happen for the patrol.

 

I take an opportunity for all my older boys to NOT take a POR and still try and lead. A coach makes no plays on the field, a band director makes no noise in a concert, the drivers' ed teacher sits in the passenger seat. Yet they are all considered "leaders". What is it that they know that we don't! A good APL is priceless and if he is in fact working so hard at making his sorry excuse of a PL look good, when it comes to advancement he will be considered having been the PL for the advancement time period.

 

Hint: the SPL that makes all of his PL's look good in the troop will be far more likely to demonstrate true leadership than the SPL that dictates and delegates to them. He's going to be more successful in the long run, too.

 

If APL is viewed by everyone as a goof-off, learning POR, then they are truly not making the most of a great opportunity for some of the better scouts.

 

Stosh

[Mike F 10]

Stosh,

 

I certainly did not intend to say APL was a "goof-off" position.

Far from it.

In the troop I serve, the first position of any sort held by a scout is within the patrol - Patrol QM, Campout Grubmaster, or APL - none of which "count" for rank advancement, but very critical to help them begin to grow.

The other boys are observing each other all the time. A scout who doesn't take his position within the patrol seriously will not be elected by the scouts (PL/SPL) or selected by the SPL (all others) until he has grown/matured more and showed he is responsible.

 

Your analogy using "administrative assistant" in place of "assistant" is off target. An "assistant" is ready to step in and take over as Acting Boss running a patrol, troop, or international business. In the adult world, this is more likely to be called the Deputy, rather than Assistant. Nonetheless, it is very different from working to cover the details and make the boss look good.

 

In the troop I serve, we have two ASPLs - both with distinct responsibilities for planning and executing program and both ready to step in as Acting SPL. Since their responsibilities are at the troop level and involve a lot of independent and coordinated effort, I can understand why BSA says this is a POR for rank.

 

 

raisinemright,

I'm not a fan of First Class First Year either. We provide the opportunity and they will advance when they're ready. I haven't met a boy yet who joins scouts for advancement over fun, friends, and adventure.

I'm a little confused by "he was going to get his turn as PL in a couple months"?

Good luck with the new troop! It's a lot of work!!

(This message has been edited by Mike F)

[Stosh 3452]

one has to also be able to see the difference between teamwork and aspirations. No one "advances" in a group without beating out the competition and this contra-indicative of teamwork.

 

The analogy holds true. If my boss doesn't show up for work and someone needs something for the operation of the business in his stead, I know who that person is depending on the problem. I don't have to take over his position, only direct the responsibility accordingly.

 

As far as APL being a goof-off position, that is what it entails in a ton of troops out there. As a matter of fact with a strong SPL running the shows, the PL's often end up his assistants and tend to goof-off too.

 

Then there's the real problem of adult-led programs where if the boys goof-off enough, the adults will run the show just to keep things going.

 

It's not that I'm judging any POR on it's merits, I only judge the person wearing the patch on HIS merits. This is why there are no popularity elections for any POR in our troop. Scouts only hold the positions because they are doing the job.

 

Stosh