MB awarded without all requirements completed

[Huzzar 39]

What is the best way to proceed if you know that a Scout has been awarded a MB but that Scout did not complete all the requirements? There is no doubt about a particular requirement being done or not, it definitely was not completed.

 

There are two possible explanations (1) the young man has a learning disability and did not understand that he had a requirement to complete or (2) he lied to his MBC. Either way, the Scout told the MBC that it was completed when it wasn't. It was one of the Eagle required MBs if that makes a difference. The MBC did not attend a particular trip and the Scout told the MBC that he did the requirement on that trip. (I'm not a mind reader but I'm leaning toward (2) above as the reason the MB was awarded.)

[AvidSM 11]

You inform the MBC that you suspect the boy earned the MB under false pretenses. That you will hold onto his completed blue card until the requirement is met. Let the boy and his parents know this and the reason why. You should also have a Scoutmaster's Conference with the boy and focus on being Trustworthy.

[Hal_Crawford 15]

Avid's post assumes you are the SM. Is that the case? If not, what is your role in this? Does the MBC know? Does the SM know? Have the card and badge been presented yet?

[John-in-KC 311]

First, who are you relative to the Scout? The only correct person to be dealing with this matter is the Scoutmaster.

 

Now, if there is a Trustworthy (Scout Law or values method) issue, then the Scoutmaster needs to make two phone calls: One is to the MBC concerned. The two of them need to have a talk about whatever requirement it was and how/why it was not completed.

 

This is where it gets dicey. Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures 333088 says once the MBC signs off, the merit badge is complete. Whoever has the evidence of the integrity problem needs to have ironclad, irrefutable stuff.

 

If the MBC agrees, it's a simple matter for him to show up at a Troop meeting and for him and the SM to have a Scoutmaster's Conference with the Scout in question. Hopefully, he'll do the right thing.

 

Now, if the MBC does not agree, things are dicier. Mr Scoutmaster needs to call the District Advancement Chairman and discuss the matter of Mr XYZ, Merit Badge Counselor. It may be that Mr XYZ needs to be thanked for his years of service to Scouting and released from service as an MBC.

 

Finally, if an Advancement Report has already gone to the Registrar, well, you're beyond my expertise level. My gut tells me to have a friendly sit-down with your Unit Commissioner and the DAC at an early date.

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

Without knowing what requirement of what MB, I want to propose that it is at least POSSIBLE that the scout is neither lying nor learning disabled, but simply that the scout misunderstood the requirement.

 

I have frequently had scouts tell me they felt they had completed some aspect of one of the three Eagle-Required MBs I counsel. Upon further discussion it sometimes turns out they just didn't understand the requirement (and sometimes, they simply hadn't read it). I try to give the scout the benefit of the doubt when that happens, instead of assuming they're actively attempting to squirm out of work or that they're impaired in some way. Seems like this leaves an opening for courteous and friendly discussion with the scout, to at least allow him to rectify things if he was in error. For example, he might elect (be encouraged) to do the missing requirement on his own, either before or after receiving the actual badge. Or he might offer (be encouraged) to teach that particular requirement to some other scouts who need to learn the skill/material in question.

 

On the other hand, one summer we had a boy at camp who scammed his way into signed blue cards for a couple of Eagle Required badges that we knew he had not completed - heck, even begun. If that's the situation you find yourself in, then the SM should have a pretty cold/hard sit-down with the kid about scout spirit issues. The kid might get the badges because once awarded, they are final. But it might also be a cold day before the SM in question is willing to sign off on scout spirit for rank advancement purposes. That's a kid who needs to earn back the trust of those around him, and that is not a quick process.

 

Separately, the SM might wish to let the merit badge counselor know and encourage him to seek some verification from a scout before signing off in the future.

 

 

 

 

[Huzzar 39]

Thanks for the replies so far. There is no suggestion that the MBC is at fault in this case. The MBC expects the Scouts to be Trustworthy when they say they have completed a particular requirement.

 

I'm on the Troop's committee and noticed the discrepancy when the MB was given to the Scout since my son was doing the same MB. I need to know who I should express my concerns to; which you're telling me is the SM. Since I'm on the committee I would like to have some idea of how it should be handled. I'm not saying I want to decide how it should be handled, but I do want to be able to say that revoking the MB isn't an option for the SM or committee. It's a case of who and how do we handle this particular boy going forward.

 

Incidentally, I would not be the first adult leader to express concern that this particular young man has received a MB without doing the work. Since our Scouts do MBs at camp, with individual councelors and at MB-fests a couple of times a year how on earth can we police a young man that may be pulling the wool over his MBC's eyes?

[CalicoPenn 729]

There's something about this question that bothers me.

 

What's missing is HOW you know this Scout told his Merit Badge Counselor that he had completed a specific requirement on a specific trip.

 

Did the Scout brag about it to his friends? If so, that should lead to an immediate conference between him and his Scoutmaster.

 

Did the information come from some Scouts who are griping? Information that may have no factual basis, just a "hunch"? Then the conference should be between those Scouts and the Scoutmaster on Scout Spirit.

 

Or did the information come from some adult who contacted the Merit Badge Counselor to "check up" on the Scout and find out what this Scout has claimed? If that's the case, that adult needs to be told in no uncertain terms that s/he is never to call a Scout's Merit Badge Counselor ever again to "check up" on a Scout to make sure the Scout is doing everything he's "supposed" to be doing. That adult needs to be told that doing so, even though it may be "well meaning", may lead to the impression that the adult has some kind of agenda or vendetta towards the Scout. If you got the information from this third source, then don't even think of talking to the Scout - you can't very well model the first point of the Scout Law if you don't trust the Scouts themselves.

 

(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

[Lisabob 13]

Well the last part is easy (ha). Just stop the policy of having scouts in your troop get all their merit badges as camp and MB-fests! (I say "easy" because if you can move the troop toward using the merit badge process the way it was intended, where a boy or small group of boys work individually with a local counselor, it is likely that these sorts of problems just won't occur. But I recognize that changing troop culture is often anything but "easy.")

 

So what sort of relationship do you have with the SM? Is he a friend? Have you been involved with the troop for a while or are you a new adult volunteer? Do you typically see pretty much eye-to-eye w/ SM or not? Does he seek out, or at least seem to listen to, your point of view or not?

 

If you have a good relationship then find a time to bring up the matter, perhaps not related to this particular scout, but in more general terms. Address the problems inherent in how the troop approaches MBs rather than singling out a particular MB and a particular kid.

 

Regarding the specific merit badge/kid, I think you are in a weak position to pursue this as anything other than a VERY quiet conversation with the SM (and only then if you have a great working relationship with the SM). Unless you attended the event in question and then were standing next to the kid when he told the MB counselor that he completed the requirement at that event, you can't be sure what happened. It could be that the boy completed the requirement some other time too. And being the parent of another boy who didn't complete the MB might very well make you look as though you're using scouting merit badges to "keep up with the Joneses." However untrue and unfair that may sound, it may still look that way to others.

 

And by the way, if it is your son who is incredulous that this boy "earned" the badge, well that's one of those teachable moments for you about how the meaning of an award is ultimately to be judged by the person holding it. Your son shouldn't allow the fact that one kid slacked his way into an award diminish the real value that an honorably earned award holds for him. Might not feel "just" to a typical kid but who said life was fair, anyway?

 

 

[Huzzar 39]

Lisabob: I'm the one that is 100% certain that the requirement wasn't met. My son is not involved at all except I happen to know the requirements for that MB because my son was working on it too.

 

I'm not 95% sure or 99.9% sure the requirement wasn't met but 100% sure. And yes, your question about standing next to the kid when he discussed the MB is pretty close to how I know he didn't do it. If I have a quiet word with the SM he's going to slap his forehead for not noticing himself it's that blatant.

 

So do I talk to the SM or not?

 

I agree with your views on the MB-fest but I'm a voice in the wilderness on that one. I sometimes think I'm involved with a MB/advancement program instead of an outdoors program.

[Lisabob 13]

OK now I am really curious.

 

What was the requirement?

[evmori 11]

Did the Scout tell his MB counselor this requirement was completed on this trip or did he just tell him he completed the requirement?

 

Like Lisa, I would really like to know what MB & requirement we are talking about?

[Hal_Crawford 15]

My two cents, tell the SM what you know and then drop it. I would not discuss it with anyone else in the unit. It is between the SM, the MBC and the scout. The SM will have to decide how to handle it and others should not second guess that decision. As a committee member you should probably not sit on any BORs for this scout.

 

Hal

[Huzzar 39]

8) Plan a troop court of honor or campfire program. Have the patrol leaders' council approve it, then write the script and prepare the program. Serve as master of ceremonies.

 

Hal_Crawford: that's what I'm leaning toward.

[sandspur 10]

Huzzar:

A quiet word with the SM is in order. If he thinks there is a problem, the SM can discuss it with the MBC. If the Advancement Chair has not turned the advancement report in to the council, it is an easy matter to have the MBC pull back the MB card. If it has been turned in, the council can still correct their records easily enough (I have seen that done with clerical errors in the advancement report). How to handle it with the scout is up to the SM and MBC. I think if I was you, I would be very quiet and have a brief, polite word with the SM or MBC, and let them work it out. I would also give a lot of thought as to how I presented this. A lot depends on how you came by the knowledge and you dont want to be seen as having an axe to grind. This assumes you are correct and there is no way the requirement could be complete. If you are wrong, well, think of how you will feel. So if I were you, I would present my concerns and leave room that I might be wrong and hope I am, but thought it needed to be brought to the SM attention. Any other advice on how to handle the scout is out of place here since the SM or MBC have not had a chance to act.

 

[sandspur 10]

Hal:

Your reply got me thinking when you wrote that as a Committee Member, Huzzar should probably not sit on a BOD for this scout. I see your point but here is another facet: What is a BOR for if not to determine if the scout has completed all rank requirements and the award should be made? A BOR is not supposed to retest skills (although that is another discussion). So if, as a BOR member, you really dont think a requirement has been met, should you stay silent? Isnt declining to participate in a BOR where you have the same suspicion the same as staying silent on the BOR? Does that make the BOR just a rubber stamp (in which case we ought to drop the BOR requirement). I am not sure what I would do, but I incline towards the thought that on a BOR I would ask the scout about the MB and bring up the requirement in a friendly way (so, what did you do to fulfill this requirement?). If the scout is in the clear, it seems like a normal friendly question. If he lied, I would expect the deer in the headlights look. And no, I would not vote to pass him on the BOR if I got that reaction.