Group Merit Badge in a weekend?

[GKlose 24]

I only remember my troop doing a group merit badge event twice: once, for a National jamboree merit badge midway project we were to build, my SM thought it would be a good idea if everyone in the troop first earned Photography merit badge. We did do parts of it as a group, but there was also considerable on-your-own work that had to be done in order to finish it.

 

The other time was when our SM brought in a Red Cross trainer, to work on first aid certification (and First Aid MB) for everyone. I already had both, so I recall doing something else during those meetings.

 

On the other hand, there were times when we probably could have done a group merit badge, but didn't. For example, there were high adventure trips to MN and ME, where considerable amounts of practice trips were done before going, but we didn't do Canoeing MB as a group.

 

I feel I can see both sides of the issue -- to me, it's not a big deal if that's what a troop wants to do, just like it's not a big deal if troops don't want to program around group MBs. However, I would have a problem with "MB colleges" where MBs are glossed-over. That's not fair to those who earn MBs the right way.

[asm 411 10]

I remember well doing three merit badges as classes when I was a Scout. They were the three Citizenships. It took about 3 months each. There were about 6 Scouts in the class. We met with one of the troop ASMs twice a month I think.

 

We had discussions during the meetings and had to do the requirements as homework. If I remember correctly we even decided which requirements we, the Scouts, would be prepared to discuss at the next meeting. To me this is was what a merit badge class is and should be. Someone to provide an opportunity to get off our butts and to guide us. The good is that I think I learned a lot from the discussions in those meetings. From my perspective I don't think I was short changed because I did not have to be self-motivated to get started. FWIW in total I earned 39 merit badges in all.

 

This obviously is much different from a one day class or working on merit badges during troop meetings. Just wanted to drop my two cents in on how having a merit badge class does not have to be an experience where Scouts get off easy.

[Beavah 205]

I don't think there's any difference for non-outdoor MB's. We have to remember the BSA's official policy on Merit Badges:

 

To the fullest extent possible, the merit badge counseling relationship is a counselor-Scout arrangement in which the boy [singular] is not only judged on his performance of the requirements, but receives maximum benefit from the knowledge, skill, character, and personal interest of his counselor. (National Executive Board policy statement)

 

So even if a lad has grown up in a family of pilots that run an air charter company and can whip off da requirements for Aviation MB, the counselor is not supposed to just give the lad a signature after a couple of hours. The counselor is supposed to counsel, eh? To introduce the lad to other aspects of aviation, take him to a TRACON or control tower, have him plan a route and take him for an orientation flight, invite him to da local Dawn Patrol fly-in and check out all the airplanes.

 

There's no such thing as a Merit Badge Teacher. We're supposed to be counselors and mentors.

 

Yah, and just because one lad comes with a lot of experience in a badge and can breeze through da requirements doesn't mean that every boy who signs up can do that, eh? Some boys may never have been close to an airplane or at an airport before in their lives. They're goin' to take longer, eh?

 

-----

 

BobWhite, with respect to canoein', I think yeh use the standard excuse for MBC's who are lazy, eh? "It's a safety thing, I have to lecture for a long time first". Balderdash. Doesn't take much effort at all to select a location where a bunch of lads who are swimmers can safely hop aboard a canoe with a quick example and a helping hand and begin to paddle. Takes even less if yeh have a troop with real patrol method, and the older, more experienced boys in each patrol are providing an example and helpin' out the younger lads.

 

Same with firearms. I've watched good Level 2 NRA instructors hand boy scouts a shotgun and head out on da skeet range, teachin' and coachin' as they went.

 

Plus, I don't reckon that lecturin' really helps much anyway, eh? Boy's don't listen.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[scoutldr 732]

GKlose said, "Our Scoutmaster found a counselor (a scientist at a nearby air force base) and we spent several weeks traveling to this guy's house. He spoon-fed it to us, bit by bit, teaching us the parts we didn't know. I had some interesting projects come out of that, including growing some irradiated bean seeds and building a geiger counter (with a G-M tube coming from this scientist). ... I feel like it was one merit badge we both earned the hard way, by putting in a considerable amount of time."

 

That's the whole point of the MB program...to learn from a real expert scientist...not from someone's mom or dad who happened to volunteer for a MB fair for the day (unless of course, they happen to be experts). The goals are to 1)seek out an adult you may not know (adult association), 2) learn the topic from a real expert by vocation or avocation, and 3) have fun and come away with a lifelong skill or knowledge.

 

The focus seems to have shifted to "earn 21 MB as soon as you can so you can make Eagle". Not the same thing.

 

[Gold Winger 9]

Gotta ask, what's a level 2 instructor?

 

If one of these "level 2" instructors handed someone a gun without safety orientation, he just broke more than a few rules. It might be "cool" but it isn't according to Hoyle.

 

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[Bob White 20]

While there is no title of Merit Badge Teacher, no one can deny that a merit badge counselor teaches, and so they need to have a good knowledge on how to teach and, how to do it effectively. It would be intellectually dishonest to try and keep teaching and the methods of teaching out of a discussion on merit badge counseling by saying that 'there in no position called teacher in scouting'. Any adult involved in the development of others is a teacher.

 

To regard being safety conscious as being lazy is an interesting, but not a defendable, position. What leader with any common sense would first give a scout an ax for the first time and tell him to split some wood, without first reviewing the safety precautions for using and ax, as well as the correct way to use it.

 

Any responsible boater will review the safety precautions and boat operations before taking a person out on a boat let alone sending an untrained person out on one. That would be true on any size or type of vessel whether it is a power boat, sail boat, or even a canoe.

 

In Sea Scouting our boat repairs often include the use of a variety of power tools. It would be irresponsible to let a scout operate a table saw without first going over safety and operational instructions, just as it would to send them on the water in a canoe without pre-training. There is nothing lazy about safety, to think someone would teach boating and not first teach safety is disturbing, especially when you are responsible for the safety and welfare of other people's children.

 

No one said that these things needed to be done in a lecture style of instruction. A good counselor understands how to do this without lecturing. But when it comes to merit badges where safety is an element it is unwise and poorly planned to teach safety AFTER the activity has begun.

 

I do not understand what the Patrol Method has to do with merit badge counseling or with hands on teaching versus lecturing for merit badges. Why Beavah chose to introduce it to the thread is a mystery. To me this is just a smoke screen to avoid the issue of responsible leadership and instruction when it comes to merit badge topics that include an element of safety.

 

Nowhere does the BSA support lecturing over hands on training, and counselors or scoutmasters who use or over use lecturing are not as effective as those who use other teaching methods. But, the ability to use effective counseling methods is controlled almost entirely by the counselor, and most merit badges are designed for one-on-one learning and testing and not for group work.

 

Since the nature of the merit badge topics and their requirements are designed for one-on-one interaction, putting them in a group setting only increases the difficulty for the counselor and diminishes the experience for the individual scout.

 

[Bob White 20]

In a mistitled thread in another topic area Beavah states "One way to control the environment is with Patrol Method and Youth Leaders, eh? Not for regular MB counseling necessarily, but for pursuing a badge as a patrol or a unit."

 

But that was not the topic of the discussion was it Beavah? Nor was it related to group merit badge counseling in any way.

 

Lets get back to merit badge counseling in groups, and for the sake of the discussion we will stay with canoeing. The first three requirements pertain to what? Safety, in fact half of the canoeing requirements are safety related, But to suggest that a counselor should take a scout and throw them into a potentially dangerous activity without first covering safety is irresponsible.

 

What LisaBob's kayak instructor does with adults is unrelated to what a merit badge counselor should do when working with other people's children. Your scenario of a shotgun instructor who before anything else oputs a loaded shot gun into someones hands is another example of irrresponsible behavior, not of good counseling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob White 20]

Beavah....continuing to post about merit badges and advancement outside of this thread writes "The requirements of a merit badge do not need to be learned or earned in order, eh?

 

True Beavah, but no responsible instructor teaches safety second?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn 61]

My main complaint about these Group Merit Badges is that very often as in OJ's case the Scout has little or no say in what is being offered.

I have visited Troops and seen SM's call out lists of names directing Scouts to go see So and So for one class and someone else for another.

The choice of which badge a Scout wants to do or not do (Yes even the Eagle Scout required ones!) Should lie with the Scout.

Some Scouts might be interested in an activity but not want to do the MB. So what happens when the Troop is doing the canoeing MB and the Lad who enjoys canoeing says that he doesn't want to participate with the group or take the class?

Eamonn.

(This isn't my only gripe about doing this in groups, but it is my big one.)

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

We occasionally do group merit badge classes within the troop. In our case, the counselor usually announces that they will be teaching the MB on certain scheduled dates and it is up to individual scouts to determine if they want to participate. If they do, they take a card to the SM to get approval, buy the book or check it out of the troop library and begin preparing. The boys are never told that they have to do a MB as part of the program and the classes are always a scheduled on days and weekends other than troop meetings or outings.

 

For instance, we have a committe member who is big into cycling and just finished counseling a group of boys to completion. They scheduled all of their rides on Saturdays.

 

We are fortunate to have 21 registered and trained MBC's in our troop that cover 65 different MB's. They are available to teach any boy at any time who asks or to offer their specialty in a group setting.

[Gold Winger 9]

"For instance, we have a committe member who is big into cycling and just finished counseling a group of boys to completion. They scheduled all of their rides on Saturdays."

 

I'm kinda baffled about how a group can do the rides. The requirements are that each Scout plan his route. If you're all doing it together, who is planning the route?

[SR540Beaver 116]

8. Avoiding main highways, take two rides of 10 miles each, two rides of 15 miles each, and two rides of 25 miles each. You must make a report of the rides taken. List dates, routes traveled, and interesting things seen.

 

9. After fulfilling requirement 8, lay out on a road map a 50-mile trip. Stay away from main highways. Using your map, make this ride in eight hours.

 

GW,

 

I was not part of the cycling MB, so I don't know the exact details of how they accomplished the requirements. What I do know is that the guy who taught it is our MB coordinator and a corporate trainer by profession and can assure you that the requirements were followed.

 

Requirement 8 does not indicate that the rides have to be done by an individual alone. They can certainly be done in groups and probably should to increase visibility to vehicles.

 

I can even see requirement 9 being done as a group or sub groups. If the group agrees to do 50 miles from point A to point B, they each individually lay out a route. More than likely, the routes are going to be very similar if not identical. Then they go on their ride. Pretty simple.

 

Nowhere does the requirements say that the rides have to be done solely by the individual and that group rides are not allowed.

 

But again, I do not teach the cycling MB and did not participate in how the group of boys from our troop did it. I just know they did it and emailed the troop a picture of the group on their bikes at the end of the 50 miler which was thier last ride.

[ETD129-AW Chpt Adv 10]

Eamonn says:

The first Troop OJ joined had a change of leadership.

The Guy who replaced the SM held the opinion that every Scout in the Troop should be an Eagle Scout.

The idea that Advancement was a method of Scouting was cast aside and replaced with the idea that Advancement was Scouting...

 

I have to say Amen:

 

Being the Scoutmaster of a small, young troop, I was struggling with trying to get the troop (adults/parents) to accept the concept of "youth run". As part of the troop meeting program the boys insisted on working on Merit Badges (albeit with influence of a parent/committee chair who was quick to brag about his 3 palms). I have always been against the principle of group Merit Badge "instruction". However with some guidelines in place I compromised and agreed to allow them to set aside about 15 minutes to work on Merit Badges.

 

The PLC selected the MB and off we were. Well seems that 13 year old Billy already had Fingerprinting or had absolutely no interest in it earning it. For 15 minutes he did all he could to disrupt the meeting and cause continuous trouble, making the SPL's life a living @#$$. The boys complained to me about him, and some of the adults wanted me to castrate him. I could not hold Billy totally responsible for his actions, and we did the best we could. However I was able to somewhat prove my point about the concept that MB's and troop meetings do not easily mix.

 

Before I'm jumped on about not providing a mixture of things to do for different ages or groups, I did say "small troop". I know the program and have read the books.

 

I am no longer with this troop and have accepted the position of Committee Chair/Mentor of a new up-start troop in a nearby town. The group is again small and fresh out of Cubs, and the leaders are totally focused on earning Merit Badges at all cost. I understand they are still in the Arrow Point, Belt loop, Activity pin, sports pin mode. Education is the key here. This relationship is much better than my previous life and the leaders are able to listen and understand, again it's the Scoutmaster's and PLC's program and all I can do is offer friendly advice and experience over a cup of coffee.

 

The point of this rambling is that as someone said; Advancement is only one of eight methods of scouting and we're charged with delivering the program by utilizing all eight. Removing any one of these and you don't have scouting as it was designed. Remove the other seven, as I see is so often done, then you have a failure of huge proportions. Advancement (rank and MB) is only one of eight pieces to the puzzle, and these pieces need to be the same size!!

 

WHAT KIND OF PATCH OR BADGE CAN I GET FOR BEING PART OF THIS FORUM?