jtswestark Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 This is always a hot one in our district, I presume it will be here as well. I spun this thread from the one about Scouts contacting MBCs and even assigning ones across district lines. Our District runs things kind of funny, and at times very inconvenient, but it does seem to make sense after a while. And yes, our Scouts are to contact the Counselors. We teach them how to go about it, but they must do it. We have our district MBC list that is accumulated/mananged by our District Adv Committee, updates far too infrequent. It is very much encouraged by the district and by our troops Adv. Chair that we send boys to counselors not affiliated with our own unit. When the Scout comes to me to approve a blue card, I have chance to chat with concerning YP, be on time, wear your uni, etc. then I send him to the troop Adv Chair for a MBC. The Adv Chair actually tracks what MBCs hes historically assigned for each Scout. Since some counselors are signed up for multiple badges, he will try and mix them around as much as possible so we dont get the Scout going to the same person each time. We instruct the Scout to leave blank the MBC name/address until he gets a confirmed appt. with them as some mysteriously disappear, die, are too busy, never return a call, etc If he finds this is the case, he needs to call the Adv Chair or wait until the next meeting to get another MBC and contact info. After completion of the badge, he comes back to me to sign the back of the card, I give a quick interview about how it went. He then takes the completed card back to the troop Adv Chair, who usually asks the same questions. This is how we find out about a real poor quality MBC or if something else odd or inappropriate has happened. We will sometimes scratch a MBC off our list and sometimes I contact our District MB coordinator to advise what is going on. But we do not let the Scouts have the MBC list, they will cherry pick names they know. We want to expose them to as many different adults as possible. Some of this can be time consuming and frustrating, but it does work well and the Scouts meet many new adults. It can be a management nightmare for our 27 boys, but my Adv Chair is a saint and has an awesome system! We have four different public school systems across two different scouting districts and one even lives in a neighboring council. Our District maintains that they need to come to our districts counselors to try and maintain the consistency, but weve never been questioned by anyone about a MBCs status. Our District Adv Comm says they can only go to a neighboring district if there isnt a MBC in our district (which isnt all that rare!). But Ive also learned over the years they dont verify the MBC on the card anyways. We had an ongoing problem with making sure our MBCs were even REGISTERED for a number of years before they finally started leaving them off the list. I openly questioned if they were going to invalidate the MBs earned if the counselor wasnt current!? Or if the MBC was just not registered for a particular year!? What a mess. So I guess my answer to Raisenemright is, if you were in my District I would just tell you to give our District committee MB coordinator a holler and let him know of your circumstances; like I've done numerous times. At least then (hopefully) youve got your son covered in case someone should decide one day to check the MBCs. My question to the forum's ever deep knowledge base - qualified with "I'm not a district guy" so don't beat on me too hard: 1.) Does crossing the district line for counselors jive with the official rules? (does anyone really check?) 2.) Is this process remotely similar to what troops are doing elsewhere? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Jack Counselors are registered to the council and not the district so there is no prolem. Your procedure is excellent and includes all the needed elements outlined by the BSA advancement program. You are correct that doing it right sometimes takes a little longer, but there are definite benfits to the process. Nice Job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtswestark Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Follow up Bob - does any District or Council folks actually check the names of people that are signing these blue cards as counselors? We've done ski trips up at Peek & Peak, NY and climbing at Laurel Caverns, PA, some boys got snow sports and climbing MBs respectively. Nobody's ever asked me about the signatures and names on the cards. I'm afraid I know the answer and I don't like it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yah, yeh know da answer, jtswestark. Broadly speakin', in most councils and districts, nobody tries to verify MBC signatures at that level. That job is left to da units, just as rank advancement is left to da units. Yeh might wish it were otherwise, and I've seen districts that tried for a while. Mostly, it's just not good use of volunteer time, eh? Half da cards are beat up, 2/3 of the signatures aren't legible on those small lines, lots of units do what you mention and go to out-of-council camps and outfitters and whatnot. How long are yeh willing to hold up a lad's advancement for adult paperwork issues? How many good district volunteers are yeh goin' to dedicate to da process? And what are yeh goin' to do if you find a "bad" one? Make da lad re-take the badge when he thinks he's done? This is where we get into "it's a children's program" , eh? Lots of professional organizations aren't hyper-thorough about vetting resumes of folks they're hirin' for important jobs. Often because it's not worth da cost. Surely folks can be excused for not applyin' a higher-than-professional standard to kids' awards. The corollary to that is that (hopefully!) nobody is ever goin' to try to hold up a lad's advancement at some more remote time down the road for whether or not a counselor was registered at the time. Dat's just one of those urban legends things, eh? If it gets entered into ScoutNet, it's da kid's badge (at least until ScoutNet loses it...) Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 "Follow up Bob - does any District or Council folks actually check the names of people that are signing these blue cards as counselors?" That's hard to say. With over 300 councils who can tell for sure what the record keeping process is in each. I can tell you that many councils do not even see the blue cards. They are recording the advancement off of an advancement record done either on-line or as a hard copy. It is only in the case of problem that the blue cards would be asked for and reviewed. Chances are in the case of a scout having a card from a counselor that was approved by the Scoutmaster but a counselor not registered with the council, the scout would still be credited for the merit badge but the Scoutmaster could potentially have his or her BSA membership permanently revoked. Not because of an advancement issue but because of a youth protection violation that he or she was in control of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 In the Council I serve, the Counselor of each merit badge is to be listed on the Advancement Form (yes, I know there is no room for it, doesnt mean it can't be required) and if the Counselor's name isnt on record, it doesnt count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yah, OGE, how does your council handle out-of-council camps, outfitters, MBUs and such? How are yeh handlin' online advancement, where there's no field to enter counselor name, and so no way to ask for it as extra? When yeh say it "doesn't count" what do yeh actually do? The boy has fulfilled his obligations in good faith, eh? Do yeh really deny da lad a badge he's earned because adults fouled up the paperwork (or more frequently in many councils, because da district or council didn't keep up with its MBC lists)? How do you suppose our national office would react to that should it be challenged? Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 All great questions Beavah, I am but a lowly District Merit Badge Dean. The questions you ask are great and I am not sure I have all the answers. Out of Council Counselors need to be identified as to what Council they are registered in so their status may be verified Do I deny the boy the badge? Nope, never said I did, the Council has said they will. Not sure if its happened as yet. For the internet advancement, paper must also be sumitted with the names of Merit badges, Scouts and Counselors. Do I like it? Nope, Do I think it is a good idea? Nope its what the Council Advancement Committee decided to do. OldGreyEagle just pawn in game of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKlose Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 "OldGreyEagle just pawn in game of life" Mongo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Oh, no! Now we're back to da Game of Life thread? OGE, are yeh a secret pawn in da Game of Life? Inquirin' minds want to know. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Beavah, I could tell you but then I would have to kill you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottteng Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 We have a lot of boys with certain Merit badge cards from a neighboring council's Merit badge counselors. Most of the large museums and wildlife places have found it to their advantage to offer both boy scout and girl scout programs. The majority are in the city and are registered with the other council. We have even gone as a troop to some of these programs. Some of our scouts have attended that councils merit badge university. Most of these do tend to be the easier ones not the ones with three month requirements and non Eagle required. We have a district list for counselors for travel reasons. It is fairly up to date usually once per year. As long as the Scoutmaster and advancement person are happy why would there be any question from on high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Aha, more information on the merit badge front Apparently a merit badge counselor in Pittsburgh was found guilty of abusing scouts. As a result, all merit badge counselors need to have a background check, something that originally was not done. In an attempt to be "safe" the Council Advancement Committee has decided that it would be a good idea to be sure only "registered, read background checked" merit badge counselors are having scouts sent to them for the purposes of having a merit badge done. So, its a question of youth protection. Troops using non registered counselors will be contacted and asked to use registered counselors, nothing definite on what happens to the badge for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkUH60 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Hello As a part of my Wood Badge ticket I am putting on a "Medical Merit Badge Midway" for my district. I have the potential instructors for it but I would like to know if anyone has out there has any power point presentations (or other another type) for Medicine, Dentistry, Public Health or Veterinary Medicine? If you do it would be greatly appreciated. YIS CPT John Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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