last minute Eagle

[jaxvol]

I have a question on a recent case.

 

I am the Committee Chair and the other night a scout brought four of his Eagle requirement merit badges and his project completion to be signed off. This meeting was 48 hours before his 18th birthday.

 

The C. in Nation and E. Prep merit badges were partials where he lacked one requirement. The other two, Family Life and Personal Management had never been reviewed before. For Family Life he had done cleaning around the house for his project. The merit badge counselor thought there needed to be more thought and would like to have pre-approved the project. Theere had been no discussion with this boy from the time he started until this night. He was told to do a different family project and contact the counselor again.

 

For Personnel Management he used the forms from MeritBadge.Org and filled them out and brought them in as his proof of completion. I had the papers review by two merit badge counselors for the badge and neither one would sign off on the badge without several meetings. Both thought he needed to redo his 90 day budget.

 

So he was batting .500 on the merit badges with 48 hours left. We didn't sign off on the project because neither the Scoutmaster or myself had seen the work yet.

 

Here is where it gets interesting -- he calls another Troop, gets with their merit badge counselor and gets them to sign a blue card for Personnel Management. He comes to my house with the blue card (no Scoutmaster signature), and his Family Life with a different project

from 5 months ago. He wants me to take his blue card, approve this Family Life and sign his application. I called the Scoutmaster and the three of us met for over two hours.

 

At the end of time we had not approved either merit badge, and not signed his application. He has now turned 18 and Mom is raising the roof. I can't lower standards just because the boy is 17.999 years old.

 

What happens on a appeal when there are merit badges and issues other than just the approvals on the application? I would like the boy to get Eagle, but I don't want to have the other Scouts feel that rules have been bent. My feeling at this point is that there is no wiggle room in not completing merit badges before you are 18.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Call your District Advancement Chairman. Do it today.

 

From what you have told us, this Scout has sidestepped a fair number of pieces/parts of Boy Scout Requirements #33215 and Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088.

 

It looks like your Scoutmaster has been sidestepped in his mentoring and development role. It looks like, from what you tell us, the MB Counselors are not prepared to accept the work of the Scout.

 

Do this right. Get your SM and yourself together and go have a cup of coffee with the DAC. Inform your COR about what you're doing, and why. You may also want to inform your UC and the DE. That way when Mom calls and complains, folks are already aware of the broad outlines here.

 

Keep us informed. We learn too from each of these situations.

[OldGreyEagle]

merit badge counselors are pretty much the final authority on badges they counsel. If one signs off on a badge, its earned and that about it. You could request that the counselor be removed from the approved counselor list, but that about it as far as counselors go.

 

For the Eagle project, I guess I have to ask, what is the process in your District/Council? For an eagle project where I live, the Disitrct Advancement Committee has to approve the project before it can be started and that form requires the Scoutmaster and a committee members signature. How is it done in your neck of the woods?

 

For whatever reason the boy did not make eagle, It looks liek more from his inaction than your action, but that may depend on perspective. if you know you did the right thing, dont worry about, you did the right thing.

[jaxvol]

The project is not the issue here.

 

The "shopping" for a merit badge counselor rubs me wrong. For Personal Mangement the Troop approved counselor who the Scout was working denied his work. I passed to to another Troop approved counselor for who would not pass the work. Both counselors would work with him, but could not finish in 48 hours. Then the scount went to another Troop and used their counselor to sign the badge (in 20 minutes!) with no approval of the SM.

 

Family Life was also denied -- so I guess you find a merit badge counselor to sign that one as well.

 

Then appeal and get the Eagle. What does that teach the boy?

 

I ask him -- "What would happen on April 15 if you had a car wreak on the way to post office and couldn't mail your taxes to the IRS?"

 

 

[evmori]

For Family Life he had done cleaning around the house for his project. The merit badge counselor thought there needed to be more thought and would like to have pre-approved the project.

 

The requirement reads

 

Plan and carry out a project that involves the participation of your family. After completing the project, discuss the following with your merit badge. counselor:

 

1. The objective or goal of the project

2. How individual members of your family participated

3. The results of the project

 

 

Nowhere in the requirement does it state the MBC must approve the project.

 

For Personnel Management he used the forms from MeritBadge.Org and filled them out and brought them in as his proof of completion.

 

The requirement reads

 

Do the following:

 

1. Prepare a budget reflecting your expected income (allowance, gifts, wages), expenses, and savings. Track your actual income, expenses, and savings for 13 consecutive weeks. (You may use the forms provided in this pamphlet, devise your own, or use a computer generated version.) When complete, present the results to your merit badge counselor.

2. Compare expected income with expected expenses.

1. If expenses exceed income, determine steps to balance your budget.

2. If income exceeds expenses, state how you would use the excess money (new goal, savings).

 

None of the requirements for this MB require or ask for MBC approval prior to completion.

 

While I'm not a big fan of last minute Eagles, we can't be adding to the requirements to prevent them. And based on what was posted, that is, in my opinion, what is happening with these two MB's.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

There is no such thing as "Troop Approved." Merit Badge Counselors belong to District and Council Merit Badge Counselor rosters. The District Advancement Chairman approves all MB Counselors. The actual words on this are findable in Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088. The key point here is the Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper in assigning MB Counselors. He may assign in-house, or he may go out-of-house. It's his call.

 

The issue involving this young man is that he had a Counselor assigned by his Scoutmaster (I hope ... you as CC are out of your lane if you are assigning MB Counselors). From what you say, the Scout bypassed this Counselor.

 

That's why the mentoring process described in Requirements #33215 is so important. The Scout should have gone to the SM. The SM should have signed out a merit badge application with a Counselors name and contact info.

 

As OGE notes, if the Counselor signed off, the purpose of the second signature on the app is "chain of custody" ... so the badge can be placed on an Advancement Report, or submitted via Internet Advancement.

 

 

Here's some reading material from the National website:

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/guideformeritbadgecounselors.aspx

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/FAQ.aspx

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx

http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx

 

Does your Troop follow established BSA program in youth obtaining applications and then turning them in? If you do, there may be a leg to stand on should there be an appeal. If you do not, ask your Unit Commissioner to come in and re-train all, from SM to you (including Counselors and the Advancement Coordinator) on correct MB management procedures.

 

As I said before, call your District Advancement Chairman. Do it today. Get him or her in the loop and as your ally ... before he must become an impartial investigator.

[OldGreyEagle]

Well actually, if you did get in a car accident on the say to mail your tax forms on the 15th of April and you had a copy of the accident report, you might very well not face anything "bad" it all depends and I know what you mean but still, the example is not an absolute.

 

I am going to go on how the District I serve does things, so if that is not how its done where you are, we all learn more.

 

Your District/Council has approved merit badge counselors. If you think a Counselor did not fulfill the requirements of being a counselor, then you should let somebody know. In the Disitrct I serve, its the Merit Badge dean. In other Districts it may be termed something else or be lumped in other duties. In some places there are Council merit badge lists. Whatever way it went, I do think those responsible for signing off on merit badges other counselors did not should be asked what was the reasoning used. They may have valid reasons, they may not, but if they short circuit the system, they are doing everyone a dis service. You ask what does the boy learn? All the boys learn to shop for merit badge counselors and that is not a good lesson for anyone.

 

How can an Eagle project be not a problem if the youth is 2 days away from his 18th birthday and you and the scoutmaster havent seen the work yet? Thats a real head scratcher.

 

But, beyond all quibbles and questions, if you know you did the right thing, then you did, it just may take some time for others to come to the same realization

[jaxvol]

For Family Life, what you stated is requirement 5.

 

Requirement 4 is:

 

"With the approval of your parents or guardians and your merit badge counselor, decide on and carry out a project that you would do around the home that would benefit your family. Submit a report to your merit badge counselor outlining how the project benefited your family

 

For Personal Management the scout showed money "in" and money "out" but never planned a budget. Also, there were a dozen pages of notes on requirements worded "Explain to your merit badge counselor..." that needed to be reviewed. He filled in a form, but the explaination needed to follow. He was quized on several issues that he could not answer other than -- look at my notes.

 

I don't think we are making up requirements.(This message has been edited by jaxvol)

[John-in-KC]

jaxvol,

 

Listen to OGE. You're way too far down in the details. What the Scout is complete/is not complete on will sort itself out.

 

Right now, as a CC, the best thing you can do is audit your Troops procedures. Are you following the BSA advancement program? That includes selection and training of Scoutmasters, ASMs, Committee folk (you and advancement coordinator in particular) and MB Counselors?

 

From what my District does, if there are questions about a MB, there will be questions about unit procedures.

 

Further, the local Council folks are the decisionmakers here. You can say "I read it at scouter.com", and they'll say "Right. Now about....."? We can advise. We cannot, especially at our remove in distance, tell you you're going to be OK.

 

What we can do is what OGE has done: "But, beyond all quibbles and questions, if you know you did the right thing, then you did, it just may take some time for others to come to the same realization " ... We can encourage you.

[evmori]

Thanks jaxvol. Based on the additional information you posted, I would agree the Scout has not completed the requirements for the MB's in question.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Beavah]

Yah, sometimes da clock just runs out, eh? We would like to have had time to stage a last-minute comeback, but time ran out and the referee had to blow the whistle.

 

Tough to be da referee sometimes. Especially when you're rootin' for a lad. But cheatin' on the clock, or cheatin' on the requirements, doesn't do anyone any good, eh?

 

The clock ran out here. It ran out on the project, and it seems to have run out on four badges. That's a lesson the boy needs to learn before he goes off to college and the work world. Big things can't be rescued at the last minute.

 

And I bet if yeh were to sit with the lad, he'd admit it, and cop to his end-run.

 

On da district side, I would be havin' a cup o' joe with the MBC from the other troop, eh? Feedback is a gift. So is maintainin' an accurate list of qualified and responsible counselors.

 

B

 

[John-in-KC]

Gotta agree with Beavah that the outside Counselor should have been asking questions before he accepted the boy for work on the MB!

 

There may be systemic advancement weaknesses in this District. Sigh.

[scottteng]

Our district advancement chair requires all PPW to be submitted to her one month minimum in advance of their 18th birthday. It's great to have someone higher up the chain to be able to pass the buck too.

[John-in-KC]

Allow me to do my Ed Mori imitation:

 

"...Which is adding to the requirements!"

 

Anybody ready for pie?

[Lisabob]

A DAC can "require" that the scout do cartwheels on his way to the meeting too but they can't make it happen. That one-month policy, while certainly convenient for the adults involved, would never fly if challenged (at least, not in my council).

 

Sometimes an honest conversation with all involved parties is really useful. If "mom" can handle it, ask her to accompany and listen - but have the conversation itself with the scout and ask mom, very clearly, not to participate as anything other than an observer. She may hear some things that change her behavior ("going through the roof" I think you said?), if you get to a point where Junior admits that what he was doing was fudging things to get around the deadline.

 

From what you write, it sounds to me like he violated at least the spirit of the MB requirements and most likely the actual letter of the requirements too - but is this your strongest point? From the other things you wrote, I wonder if:

 

1) He had actually done his Eagle service/leadership project?

2) He had gone through proper procedures to get the project approved before embarking upon it?

3) He had had his SM conference for rank?

4) The SM signed off on the "scout spirit" requirement?

 

Others with more experience can (and will, I'm sure) comment further but my understanding from your description is that most likely, none of these things actually happened. In which case, some weak MBs are only one small part of the problem.

 

It is also my understanding that a scout my appeal a negative decision by a BOR. But this scout didn't even get to that stage, and maybe didn't do his Eagle project, so he has nothing to appeal, right?