First Class First Year even possible for an average lad?

[Beavah]

 

Yah, in da parent thread OGE talks about how FCFY isn't a goal for kids so much as it is a program objective for units. To offer enough to make it possible for an active scout to get there. Trevorum then jumps in and has the audacity to suggest FC should be earned in da context of havin' fun and using the other Methods in the outdoors, and a schedule that da PLC sets rather than a "standard curriculum."

 

So perhaps somebody can describe what it looks like for a lad in their program to make FC in a year. How many outings a month are yeh runnin'? Are you countin' on near 100% attendance? Do yeh make weekly meetings into "classes" rather than outing-themed? Are your signoffs closer to #1 or #3 in the grandparent thread?

 

At the end, does the lad really have solid skills so that he can function confidently and independently in the woods, and is therefore ready to start takin' responsibility for leadin' others?

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

 

Beavah asks:

 

At the end, does the lad really have solid skills so that he can function confidently and independently in the woods, and is therefore ready to start takin' responsibility for leadin' others?

 

 

Well, if he doesnt have the skills, he dosent get signed off now does he? Where in the BSA literature does it say that a scout should receive credit for accomplishing a requirement if he does not posses the skill required?

 

If given the choice between having a First Class scout who knows his stuff, or a boy who has a First Class rank patch in 12 months, I take the First Class scout who knows his stuff, but I didnt realize the two were mutually exclusive.

 

Is first class first year possible for an average lad? Depends, how do you deine average? If the boy goes on every campout (one a month) and attends Summer camp, he should be able to make it. If he doesnt go on campouts or attend summercamp, then its going to be more difficult. The adults in the Troop can only assure the troop has a program that meets BSA guidelines. Past that, its up to the boy.

[Beavah]

Yah, I agree OGE.

 

Now, can yeh (or anyone else) pick a lad from your troop perhaps, and describe his experience (level of participation, sequence of events, signoff skill expectations, etc.) that allowed him to get First Class in his First Year? Would yeh describe him as an "average" lad or a "very active and driven" lad for your program?

 

I think it might help folks to see and talk about examples, rather than theory. That helps answer questions like if you're a 9 month-a-year LDS unit campin' out only on Friday night, can yeh get there? If yeh can, does it happen because you devote a lot of meeting time to "classes?" etc.

 

B

 

[mtm25653]

The first few meetings after crossover (ours is late Feb) cover basic scout skills - fire building, totin chip, cooking, etc. Their first campout is usually at a nearby farm within a month of crossover and is focused on basic camping skills. Most of the new scouts have camped with the troop at least once as Webelos so they have an idea of how the campsite is laid out - at the first campout, they learn more explicitly about setting up a campsite, practice totin chip and fire building skills, cook their first meals over an open fire, learn how to wash dishes, have an evening troop campfire Saturday and a Scouts Own service Sunday morning.

 

The next month is usually district camporee, and several times our new scout patrol has won events (string burning and pancake flipping come to mind.) There is another campout in May before summer camp in June with a full-day new scout program - almost all of our new scouts go to summer camp. Most of them have tenderfoot by the Sept COH. Fall holds at least 3 troop campouts and another district camporee. January is usually a ski trip, followed by another campout in Feb before the cycle starts again. (At least one of the campouts is usually a backpacking trip, with a shorter version for the younger boys.)

 

Troop meetings, planned by the boys, are sometimes focused on the campout (district camporee events, bike trip, backpacking, rock climbing, canoeing, shooting sports, skiing), sometimes are focused on basic scout skills (first aid, knots, pioneering), or programs that are traditions in our troop every two or three years (pottery, with a visit to a famous local potter; glassblowing; law with visits to the local jail and a mock trial in the historic county courtroom; plumbing; music). Occasionally a special speaker (man who was a scout in Ireland during WWII, historical reenactor, etc.) Plus a fun night every few months (trip to a golf driving range, bowling alley or roller skating, none of which are local.)

 

Many if not most boys get first class by the May COH after being a scout 15 months or by the Sept COH at 19 months. Some get it in a year (or less). The vast majority have strong skills.

[dancinfox]

In reviewing the requirements for Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and 1st Class the most campouts a youth would need to go on is 3 and have participated in 7 other troop events (ie: COH, Scouting for Food, Parades, etc.) The youth would have to go swimming once and do one service project. If the troop program was very strong, the youth could earn 1st Class in a year.

With that said, do I agree a youth would have all the skills? I'm not sure. In my district and my old troop there is a youth that received his Eagle Rank at 12 and a half. He has 42 merit badges and received 1st class in a year. When I resigned as Scoutmaster, I did not stay active with the troop, so I don't know what their program is about. I do question receiving the Eagle Rank at that age.

Dancin

[gwd-scouter]

Am thinking about three Scouts that joined our Troop in Spring 2006. One completed his first class requirements last summer (just a little over a year), another just finished (about a year and a half), the third is still struggling to complete 2nd class requirements.

 

The first Scout mentioned was a real go-getter in the beginning. Showed up for all meetings and went on all campouts. He carried his handbook everywhere and knew the requirements needed. Sadly, this guy is now going through divorcing parents and is having trouble making it to campouts and meetings (it's my weekend and I want him home, etc.). On his journey to First Class this Scout knew the skills, I'm only hoping he has retained them.

 

Second Scout that just finished 1st class requirements took a bit longer to get there but in the past few months has really gotten into Scouting and has worked hard to learn his skills. Had a brief chat with him at our campout a couple of weeks ago as he was finishing up his 1st class cooking requirements. Yes, he wants his SM Conference when we return to meetings in January but admits he doesn't remember a lot of the earlier rank skills, especially knots.

 

Third Scout just doesn't seem interested in advancement. Comes and goes whenever it suits him or his family. His mother made a comment about 2nd Scout (above) getting to first class and why hasn't her son gotten past 2nd since they both joined at the same time. She didn't like the answer I gave that her son missed out on many of the campouts we had that would have given him the opportunity to work on his requirements.

 

Now we do have a fourth Scout that joined in the summer, a bit after the three mentioned above. He finished his 1st class requirements in about nine months. He was older to begin with, joining when he was 13 and very motivated to catch up to the younger guys, but especially to his friend (my son) who was Star Rank at the time. On campouts, this was the Scout that would be holding a length of rope, book open in his lap, practicing tying knots. This Scout went on everything we did. This Scout volunteered to run skills sessions for the younger guys so he could practice his own skills. He was the Scout that would seek out someone to demonstrate a skill so he could have it signed off.

 

I would like to mention my son, now a Life Scout, who earned 1st class within his first year under our Troop's former advancement method. I would say that he DID NOT posses the skills necessary to earn the rank at the time, at least not to the expectations we now have in our Troop. He was 10 1/2 when he joined the Troop, 11 1/2 at First Class. He did not have the skills nor the maturity to be a leader in his Troop, but he did work well and had fun as a Den Chief.

 

Like mtm's Troop, we have a yearly schedule with the opportunity for a new Scout to advance to first class if he's motivated to do so, but our experience is that it takes on average 18 months.

 

A note about leadership for the FCFY guys. Like my son mentioned above, I haven't yet found an 11-12 year old that works well as a patrol leader, SPL/ASPL. They do reasonably well in Scribe, Quartermaster, etc. and perhaps that's OK for them to have while they are young. But, at least in my experience so far (admittedly not a lot), merely being first class is not an indication of a Scout's readiness or success as he works a POR for Star.

[Lisabob]

We have three boys I can think of who made 1st Class either in the first year or very close to it (12-15 months). This is not typical in our troop. All three have very strong external motivating factors such as parental expectations, sibling rivalry, and/or desire to accumulate awards, whether in scouting or sports, or other aspects of their lives. Of the three, one seems to genuinely love scouting; the other two (brothers) seem to be involved because they are required to be, and if/when they get to Eagle I doubt we'll see them again. This isn't to say they're not getting anything from the program along the way though. I'd say probably all three are adequate (not stellar) with regard to basic skills except for knots and lashings, which I rather doubt any of them are any good with - but this is also a broader troop issue since they seldom have reason to need these skills (not saying I'm excited about this, but that's reality as I see it). I'm not sold on their leadership abilities at this point in time but I really don't think that is what earning 1st Cl. should be about anyway. I'm more concerned when we see boys hitting star and life at a very young age, then when they make 1st Cl. at a young age, because few 11 and 12 year olds possess the maturity to lead.

 

All three of these boys are in attendance at most camp outs and most troop meetings. But what sets them apart from other boys in their cohorts is that they have someone pushing them at home who also helps them get their books signed or meetings with MBCs arranged - in one case, two older brother Eagles and a persistent dad who is also our advancement chair, in the other case, the two brothers push each other, their parents have been talking about "Eagle" since the boys joined as Tigers, and the committee chair lives down the street from them. And in all three cases, personally, I think the parents take on too much responsibility for smoothing the way for their sons. For example, the parents will ask the SM questions the boys should be asking, or will tip off an MBC that their son wants to work with the MBC in question on X merit badge, on this or that day, or will tell a couple of ASMs that their boy needs to get a sign off for a particular skill and can that be arranged at the next camp out.

 

More typical for our troop is that boys earn tenderfoot around 10-12 months, 2nd class between 12-18 months, and 1st class between 18-24 months. But we also have a number of quite active boys (like my son and also our current and two previous SPLs) who attend almost everything, step up for PORs, go to camp in the summers, and just are not that excited about advancement as a motivator. While not the norm, it isn't uncommon for an active boy in this troop to make it to 1st class, Star, Life, or Eagle after 2 or more years at the previous rank. Consequently, most boys who earn Eagle are 15-17 (though we had a barely-14 year old Eagle last year), and we have as many boys (or more?) age out as Eagle-and-out.

 

 

[Scouter&mom]

It can be done, but I think many kids aren't motivated quite enough.

 

We have one boy, who crossed over in Feb and picked up First Class last meeting before Christmas. He hasn't missed many meetings, and almost always makes it to other activities. He crossed over and then began to prepare for camporee. We had a campout and a lockin (slept in building, but spent all day outside setting up camp, cooking, etc) at the church in preparation for camporee that he attended. He went to summer camp (said first year program was boring because he had already done it all) and has been on all our campouts this fall. He has participated in other activities and community service that the troop has done. Now, granted, he lives next door to the church that is our CO and his mother is active in church and is Cubmaster, so he has the opportunity and support to attend things. When his mom when to Akela Cub weekend, he had opportunity to assist with program. Mom also drove him to several summer merit badge programs sponsored by local college in adjoining district, but he was the one that wanted to attend the classes when he found out they were available.

 

We have another boy who joined the troop a couple of years ago, came for a while, and then quit because he was caught in a tug of war between Mom and Dad. He came back just a couple of months ago and has already earned Tenderfoot. He is a little older and more mature and now is ready to set the world on fire. It does help that he has a grandaddy that is a believer in Scouts and makes sure all his grandchildren that want to be in Scouts get to be there.

 

We have other boys who joined in May as school was ending. They didn't have the Scouting background, and the extreme devotion to the program, and they have only just completed every thing for Tenderfoot.

 

My own son is one of those, that will float along just enjoying the program and the suddenly realize he wants a higher rank before some event. He was First Class for a year, then just before Natl Jambo, he decided he wanted to go as Star. Rocked along as Star for a year, then decided he wanted to go to something else as Life and got his act together. I think now that he has been Life for nearly two years, he is much more mature and much more ready to demonstrate the leadership that is expected of an Eagle Scout.

 

So is First Class First Year achievable for average Scout? I guess it depends on the program the troop offers. And then whether this "average" Scout really wants to be there or if it is just something to do. Some LOVE it, and some just go because they "don't have anything better to do".

 

 

[Oak Tree]

There are currently ten boys in our troop who crossed over in March 2006. Seven of them are now First Class. Five of them made it in under a year, with the fastest being six months. We hold one typical camping outing every month. Most of these do not accomplish too much in the way of advancement, but there is one campout where we definitely focus on basic Scouting skills, and usually another one or two where various skills will be worked in.

 

It seems like most months we have some other activity as well - a troop training day, or a service project, or meeting at a swimming pool on a Saturday, or a patrol activity where they are preparing for an upcoming campout.

 

Our troop meetings have a variety of things going on, and we do focus on some basic Scoutcraft work for the new Scouts. Also, the more gung-ho Scouts find time during the meetings to take care of some requirements.

 

Certainly its true that the boys whose parents are helping them keep organized and focused are the ones who are making the most progress.

 

I will say that I don't think the sign-offs represent mastery in our troop. If the boy has done the requirement (e.g. successfully tied one bowline), he gets it signed off. So no, he typically would not have really solid skills.