Eagle Scout Advancement and POR requirements

[Gonzo1 10]

ASM915, others,

 

Just because the EBOR failed him today, that doesn't mean he could go back to his troop, take on the POR or another POR and then come back and go before the EBOR again, instead of whine, complain and appeal.

 

John-in-KC

You hit the nail on the head, JOB DESCRIPTIONS are necessary so everyone know what is expected.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

If we the Scouters let the kids ride out their time, don't set expectations, and don't expect results, we deserve to be over-ridden on SM Conference and BOR appeals. We've not done our share of developing our young charges.

 

Yah, KC, I appreciate your passion, but I think the above misses an important set of kids: the kids who don't get it, haven't (yet) done the job, but who the SM isn't yet willing to give up on and "fire." Same as Gonzo's example, except there's "signs of life"; kid is remorseful, wants to try harder, etc.

 

Imagine if instead of serving in a POR the issue was swimmin' (which seems to be my example of the week ). You're supposed to get the boys to First Class in a year. So you're workin' with a boy in swimming classes. But before you get to the one-year mark, you have to choose: either fire the boy from swimming classes, or pass him for First Class without having learned how to swim. Even though the requirement says learn how to swim.

 

Same deal here, eh? Though the requirement is to serve, and to do so actively, the SM has to decide to either fire him before 4 or 6 months or pass him even if he didn't perform any service, or wasn't active. There's no room to "keep working."

 

Completely bass-ackwards way of thinkin' about advancement. Just another version of "a kid is owed advancement." Advancement is a tool we use to inspire kids to work hard on buildin' skills and character in order to get Recognition. If our choice is either to tell a kid to stop working (fire him), or reward him even though he hasn't built skills and character, then advancement is worthless. It should be dropped as a Method.

 

Beavah

[epalmer84 10]

Just to clarify- bugler is on the POR list for Star and Life, but not for Eagle. I know that was probably an example, but it could be a bit confusing.

 

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/eagle.html

 

While on the POR subject, it is my understanding that the new Venturing positions of quartermaster, guide and historian will be added to the next update of the Eagle Scout requirements. I don't have any hard reference for that, but is does fall in line with the Boy Scouting and Sea Scouting PORs.

 

http://www.nationalventuringyouthcabinet.org/files/positions.pdf

 

Ed

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

B,

 

If a kid isn't getting it, but is remoreseful, we've had a Plan B built into the program for years: The Scoutmaster Assigned Project. Give the kid a definite task and a definite timeline. Make it reasonable and do-able.

 

Oh, IMO: Give him a JASM or ASM to ride along!

[ASM915 90]

Let's look at this another way. POR is not the only requirement to get the rank. If the Scout is not fulfilling the requirements for the job description:

1) We can always remove him from the postition.

2) We can attempt to mentor him in the position.

OR

3) Inform the young man that he has not met our expectations for his position, so there for we will see him 6 months from now at his next Scoutmasters Conference, and we expect him to be fulfilling his positions obligations. If he needs help, we will help him if he asks. Otherwise we'll be seeing him again 6 months later at the next SMC until he figures it out.

 

The Scoutmasters Conference is our safety valve around all the other requirements and term limits. If the scout manages to meet all the requirements, but there is concern by the SM on whether position obligations have been met, or scout Spirit has been shown, (that's a whole other post, so let's not get into Spirit here), we defer the conferfence to another time when we feel he has fulfilled his obligations. Sweet, Short and Simple.

[John-in-KC 311]

Except that what you just described is a misuse of the Scoutmaster's Conference.

 

A Scoutmaster can convene a SM conference with a Scout at any time, for any legitimate reason! A Scout can request a SM Conference at any time, whatever is on his mind automatically makes it legitimate.

 

We're not here to be bureaucrats about procedures and meetings, we're here to raise young men. If a Scout has tubed during the first part of his POR tenure, but the light blinks on, give him the conference, get him to a BOR, recognize him, and let's keep him moving forward!

[Beavah 205]

Yah, ASM915 and KC, you're both doin' what all good scout leaders do, eh?

 

You're findin' a way to work around or interpret things so as to do what's right for the growth of the boy.

 

If national has surrendered on POR, handle it in the SM conference.

 

If national has surrendered on POR, use a SM assigned leadership project instead, since those aren't subject to the time limit. (I gotta congratulate you, dat's a new one I haven't seen yet! )

 

I think all really good scout leaders have a vision of the big picture and a willingness to do what it takes to adapt to and respond to what each boy needs to keep growin'. And that means usin' the program materials, but not being hog-tied by 'em. And workin' around poor policies as necessary.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I may have had an epiphany on this topic which explains the heretofore caustic coments.

 

If a scout gets a POR, say Quartermaster (QM) and really doesnt show much enthusiasm for the job in the first month, and the Scoutmaster talks to him about it and the scout still shows the same level at the second month mark. Then the Scoutmaster steps up his discssion, and the scout starts to get involved, but not really by much. At the third month mark, the Scoutmaster sees the improvement in the scout and beleives it worthwhile to continue working with the scout. After talking with the scout, the Scoutmaster and scout set out a schedule for what needs to be done when and how and to what level. Well, the work does get done, but not on schedule but something in the scoutmaster tells him the boy is progressing. At the fifth month anniversary, the scout is performing at a level that is acceptable, but the expectations of the job is that this level of performance should have been occuring since the second month. The scoutmaster now faces a really prickly choice, if he leaves the scout in the position for another month, the scout will have been in the position for 6 months and technically complete his POR, but he has only really been preforming at the expected level for a month. If the scoutmaster "fires" the scout from the position of Quartermaster, it could end up destroying the work done between the scout and scoutmaster for the past 5 months, sour the scout on scouting, etc.

 

But, then again, if the scoutmaster doesnt do something, then the other boys in the troop know that to get credit for advancement, they can take the first 3 months of the POR off, start to work a little in month 4 and then really pay attention for the last 6-8 weeks or so, and that is not the message the scoutmaster wants to send. So, what can be done?

 

What about at the 5th month anniversary the scoutmaster tell the scout, that he is proud of the job that the scout is now doing and he knows that the scout had a rocky start and that while its great the performance level is high, the scoutmaster needs to see the current level of performance for 4 more months. The scout can either accept these terms or resign his POR. This way the scout has a choice, he can stay in the position that he has grown into or he can choose to leave it. He learns consequences of actions. The scoutmaster can demonstrate to the troop that you do have to perform for your POR and not just the last few weeks. And, as all these reviews and discussions are documented, if the scout appeals anything, the background is set.