How long can boys take to complete a merit badge?

[funscout]

Are there BSA guidelines, or does each troop make it's own guidelines? My son is not self-motivated, and is slow to finish merit badges. Two badges that he started LAST summer at camp are still unfinished, even though he only had ONE requirement left on each of them! My understanding is that his time is up, and he'll have to redo all the requirements now that a year has passed, if he still wants the badges. I'm okay with that, because I want my son to learn that it's not okay to procrastinate, but I'm curious what other troops' policies are.

 

How much should I encourage him on this year's not quite completed summer camp merit badges? I know I'm not supposed to push, and that it's supposed to come from him, but I am getting frustrated!

[nldscout]

The only time linit is he must complete them before he turns 18. Anyone that tells you different is WRONG!

[Lisabob]

funscout, I have that same problem with my son and it drives me a little nuts too from time to time. nld is correct - they have until they are 18 and this is in writing in a variety of places (none of which I can quote right now, but I'm sure someone could if you really wanted to pursue it). Best thing I can suggest is that your son's SM or another adult in the troop *might* bring this up in friendly conversation at some point w/ your son, if it becomes a habit for him to start and not finish mbs. (I know in my case, if I bring it up, my son is likely to dig in his heels and move even slower - but if one of the other adults in the group were to mention it, he'd probably give it at least a serious thought) But yeah, in the end it is up to him.

 

In the meantime we can be sisters in tongue-biting silence.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

[funscout]

Thanks for the clarification on finishing merit badges. I hadn't heard this policy from a leader, but from other scouts, so I guess I shouldn't have assumed they were correct. I'm tempted to let my son continue to think he only has a year from start to finish, to see if it helps him get his badges completed.

 

Thanks, Lisa'bob, for letting me know I'm not the only frustrated parent. And you're right about having another adult give suggestions rather than me. Maybe if he finds a buddy to do a merit badge with, they could motivate each other to complete it. Okay, back to biting my tongue!

[FScouter]

There likely are some troops that make up policies such as this. BSA makes it clear there is no limitation, but still ...

 

Perhaps troops could make up a policy that the committee advancement person and/or the Scoutmaster shall encourage boys to finish up partially completed merit badges?

[Beavah]

A lotta troops establish such a "policy" as a way of pushin' boys to finish. Works pretty well for a lot of kids. Deadlines make the world go 'round.

 

Reality is that it's up to da Merit Badge Counselor. If a kid keeps workin' with the same counselor, it's not so much of an issue. But most counselors, especially at camps, don't stay around that long. A new counselor does not have to accept a partial from another counselor; it's up to whoever signs for the final badge to make sure that all of the requirements are met. Most good counselors will at least check on kids' understandin' of "old" partials.

 

 

[FScouter]

Does anyone really believe that boys read up on the adult bylaws and mark their calendars to see when the arbitrary 1 year limit is up? This limit thing is really more of an adult demonstration of power to say NO.

 

If a counselor refuses to recognize the completed requirements signed off by a previous counselor, that says more to the counselors distrust of other counselors than anything else. Im not sure that Joe Counselor ought to appoint himself to the position of judging the determinations of other counselors. Do we permit an Eagle board of review to review who signed off merit badges to determine whether they were properly completed? If counselors are improperly signing requirements, better to remove the counselor that invalidate all the merit badges they sign.

[Beavah]

Does anyone really believe that boys read up on the adult bylaws and mark their calendars to see when the arbitrary 1 year limit is up? This limit thing is really more of an adult demonstration of power to say NO.

 

No need to read up on adult bylaws unless you're an adult-run troop, eh? The SPL and PL's can be pretty good at communicatin' rules like this if you're youth run.

 

I think it works best with a tighter deadline, though. Figure on da end of August or September. That's plenty long enough for boys to finish up, and close enough that the goal can be kept in front of 'em by a friendly PL and ASM. Any boy who is really workin' can have a deadline extended, and any boy who really doesn't try to finish in that time really didn't care about it very much, and would probably never finish anyway, eh?

 

 

If a counselor refuses to recognize the completed requirements signed off by a previous counselor, that says more to the counselors distrust of other counselors than anything else.

 

MB counselin' isn't about checkin' off boxes. It's about developing an interest and a talent under the guidance of a mentor. That takes a bit of time to build a relationship and share experiences.

 

My guess would be that such a counselor cares a lot about the scout, and wants to make sure his MB experience is a high quality one. He/she is usin' the opportunity as a method to build citizenship.

 

[NWScouter]

When I was a Scoutmaster, our Scouts put the pressure on the boys with camp partials. It all had to do with our Fall Court of Honor. The PLC would set the date late in September or the first week in October with liberal announcements that it was so anyone who had a partial from camp would have time to finish. No one seemed to want to look like a slacker when all the families were there to see the all the work that had been done since the last COH.

The call to me from Scouts wanting to know where they could find a counselor would get hot and heavy as the date loomed. I remember many a blue card turned into me for a signature and pleading to our advancement chair, Mr. Stanley, would you be able to have the merit badge for the COH tomorrow night? The big softy made many a last minute trip on the afternoon of COH to the Scout Office. Of course there was a Scoutmaster who always seemed to find time to do last minute Scoutmaster Conferences and with his buddy, the advancement chair, seemed be able to gather the committee members for a board.

But what really worked for our troop was the PLC setting a date for the COH and the internal pressure that the Scouts put on themselves.

 

[FScouter]

It is great to encourage boys to complete a MB in time for the fall court of honor. It is completely different to dictate to a boy that if he has not completed the MB by the fall COH that all prior work is void.

 

Maybe a "tighter deadline" is better, maybe not. But deadlines imposed by unit adults (or PLC's) is not the BSA program. And our organization does not give us the leeway to cast off the parts of the program we don't agree with.

[Hunt]

I agree with FScouter on this, except perhaps about what a MBC should do when presented with a partial blue card from a previous MBC. For me, if I don't know the other counselor--and especially if it is from summer camp--and even more especially if it's really old--I think it's appropriate to inquire about the requirements that have already been signed off, to see if the boy has any recollection of them. If I'm going to sign the blue card as completed, I have to feel comfortable that it really has been completed. Also, since some MB requirements need some interpretation by the MBC, I need to be sure that the boy has met the requirements as I understand them. But I certainly wouldn't ask him to do requirements over without a good reason.

[FScouter]

If a counselor is going to run the boy through the previously signed requirements, what's the point of giving the boy a partial in the first place if it doesn't mean anything?

[Beavah]

If a counselor is going to run the boy through the previously signed requirements, what's the point of giving the boy a partial in the first place if it doesn't mean anything?

 

Yah, but FScouter, in the BSA program, a partial really doesn't mean anything. There's no such thing in any BSA advancement literature. That blue card section is just a reference for the scout as he works with his assigned merit badge counselor.

 

"And our organization does not give us the leeway to cast off the parts of the program we don't agree with. " So I assume you're against partials.

 

Most of the rest of us use the BSA program and materials as a way of helping kids learn and grow. So if a partial helps a boy, we use it. And if a deadline helps boys, we use that too.

 

The methods serve the mission, eh?

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[CalicoPenn]

Beavah's right - there is no such thing as a "partial" - you can't earn a partial merit badge - if you haven't completed the badge by 18, you aren't awarded a merit badge which is partially there (for instance, a swimming merit badge cut in half because you only met half the requirements).

 

Work on merit badges is an ongoing process until the badge is completed - and the only time limit on the badge is aging out at 18. If you haven't completed it by 18, you can no longer earn it.

 

Scouts may work on a merit badge with one, two, three (as many as he wishes) counselors. If a Scout already has some requirements completed and signed off on in his blue card, those requirements have been met and the new counselor can't retest on them - though s/he can spot quiz - but upon spot quizzing, can't remove a requirement from the completion column if the counselor isn't happy with the answers. The approach to take in this instance is to use the opportunity to refresh the Scout's knowledge while not retesting for the requirement - just go over the things learned and move on (a careful look at the requirements of merit badges reveals that later requirements build on knowledge gained from earlier requirements - a Scout isn't required to do the requirements in order, but it sure helps most of the time).

 

While most "so-called partials" are earned at summer camp, it is not unusual for them to be earned outside of camp. Counselors move, become ill, drop out, etc. Would it really be fair for a Scout to have to start a badge over from scratch because his counselor died, or moved out of state? I think we would all agree the answer is no. Same holds true for "so-called partials" earned at summer camp. How many merit badges can really be fully earned in less than a weeks time anyway? There should probably be more "so-called partials" earned at camp than completed merit badges. Keep in mind too, that merit badge counselors are approved by councils - how long do you suppose a merit badge counselor who refused to accept "so-called partials" from summer camp would be allowed to remain a merit badge counselor? I recall a merit badge counselor in my council who was removed from the counseling roster for doing just this.

 

"So-called partials" aside, the main question was just how long do you give a Scout to earn the badge they started working on? BSA regs are clear on this - they have until they are 18 - and councils, districts and troops can't change that rule.

 

That being a given however, there is an opportunity to "encourage" the completion of the badge. The Scoutmaster has to first sign a blue card before the Scout can start working on the badge. A Scout has one or two (even three) "so-called partials"? No big deal - a Scout is allowed to work on as many badges as he wants at the same time. But, a Scoutmaster can use the opportunity to "decline to acquiese to their request" for yet another blue card (temporarily) until he can have a proper Scoutmaster Conference to find out if the Scout has truly lost interest in the previous badges, or is biting off more than he can chew at one time - then gently guide him into completing a couple of outstanding badges. Given that a Scout may work on as many badges as he wants at one time, the Scoutmaster can't require him to complete a badge first and will eventually have to sign the blue card to get the lad started, but holding off for a week or two while arranging a Scoutmaster Conference could be considered an appropriate "spot check". The Scout may very well have some very good reasons for not being able to finish a badge started at this year's camp - How many Scouts would be able to finish common summer camp badges like Archery, Rifle Shooting, Shotgun Shooting, Motorboating, Small Boat Sailing, Climbing, Horsemanship (ok, maybe not so common but I went to a camp with it's own horses that offered this merit badge - and the badge often took two summers to complete), Rowing, Water Skiing, and Forestry back at home? As a Scoutmaster, I would definitely cut a Scout quite a bit of slack if these were the "so-called partials" he was bringing home (and reminding him of these when the next year's summer camp rolls around). He may also have good reasons for not finishing a badge altogether - other than the rank required badges, the Merit Badge program is partly designed to allow the Scout to explore different topics of potential interest - a Scout may start a badge then discover he has no real interest in it and wants to move on - forcing him to earn it turns the badge into a chore, and that defeats the purpose. I started Salesmanship and quickly learned it didn't interest me - I completed two requirements and never did finish it - when my Scoutmaster asked why, I told him it didn't interest me. His response wasn't "real men don't quit" - it was, "Then you've learned something of value about yourself" Isn't that what Merit Badges are all about anyway?

 

Funscout - as "Parent" you have more options anyway. BSA says a Scout can work on as many merit badges at a time as he wants - it doesn't say parents can't tell their children that they have to finish up a badge before you'll drive him to a counselor to start on a new badge. Are they requirements that have to be finished at camp? Then leave the lad's trading post money with the Scoutmaster with instructions that he doesn't get any of it until the last requirement is met. Sneaky, huh?

 

CalicoPenn

[gwd-scouter]

From Calico: I started Salesmanship and quickly learned it didn't interest me - I completed two requirements and never did finish it - when my Scoutmaster asked why, I told him it didn't interest me. His response wasn't "real men don't quit" - it was, "Then you've learned something of value about yourself" Isn't that what Merit Badges are all about anyway?

 

 

Calico - great answer from your SM. I'll try to remember that next time I talk to a Scout with a partial.