DonM

When my oldest first joined, I would have liked a short write-up describing:

- What happens on a typical campout

- What happens in a typical meeting

- What happens at a SM conference

- What happens at a BOR

Don

What is the proper way to handle merit badges earned at summer camp (all requirements completed at camp) but with a advancement sheet returned by the camp instead of a signed blue card?

This is an issue only for non-Eagle MB's for which our troop does not have MB counsellors. The sheet returned from the camp lists all requirements completed and is signed by the councellor (who is registerred acording to the camp) and a camp administrator. We have also spoken with the scouts to insure they completed the requirements.

Currently, as SM, I am issueing a blue card, writing the camp name in as councellor, initialiling for the councellor and signing it. Then I'm advising the scout to keep a copy of the camp form for their records (we also retain one).

Now, though, I'm worried that some scouts may have trouble at their Eagle BOR in the future.

I have not been able to obtain MB councellors for these badges through either recruiting in the troop or from the council. Do I have to try to track down all the councellors from the camp to send them cards or is what I'm doing sufficient?

Suggestions?

Don

I don't think the troop is required to accept a new scout at any time just because they are eligible.

Last year, our troop was fed from 3 packs with 3 crossover dates in 3 different months. I told them all that we would be starting the new scout patrol on a given date with their first campout (a NSP campout) later that month.

We had some flexibility for certain situations, but I don't know how we could have gotten the patrol off to a good start if they had come 6 months early.

Don

Hi Beth,

I don't have much to add to the excellent suggestions - especially get training, go to roundtables, and work with the parents in your den.

On discipline, let the cubs choose a set of den rules (guided by you of course), write them down, and post them at each meeting. Then stick with them. I found a conduct candle with the promise of a treat at the end of the meeting if it was still lit worked well if done consistently.

Don't let the parents at the meeting talk in the background. That can really distract the boys.

For activities, you can combine what you like (I hated crafts but loved doing skits and acting games) with what the boys enjoy. Keep it varied.

Keep activities short and well planned. Always have a game or game-like activity. I kept a list of these from every meeting, and at the end of 5 years, had a whole meeting where the boys just played their favorites.

Look in Scouting Magazine for ideas based on the theme. Sometimes good - sometimes less so.

For the first few years, focus on fun stuff around the theme. Most of the advancement should be happening at home (keep an eye on this). In Webelos, you will have more to do with helping them to do their advancement, and that will guide your meetings. Outings are always a good idea.

Mostly, have fun and stay enthused.

Good Luck,

Don

I forgot to mention that being verbally abusive is also prohibited. The scouts doing the teasing also should be counseled and, if their ongoing behavior warrants, the parents brought in.

DonM

While one role of scouting is to teach boys to manage agression and conflict, we also have a responcibility to insure that the program is safe for all scouts. Physical violence is equally prohibitted by the Guide to Safe Scouting. Also, I wouldn't call hitting, choking, and threatening scouts and adults with sticks minor.

The Cubmaster and Committee Chair need to work with the parent to establish a management plan, though, before kicking the scout out (again, by the G2SS). Had he received his medication in the morning he went after the other scout? Are den meetings in the evenings after meds have worn off? It may be possible to improve the situation working together.

Still, the parent should be made to understand that, if the child continues to be disruptive and violent, that it may be necessary to remove him from the pack.

DonM

You don't really know that it isn't going to make you a better person until you have completed the requirements.

- The project will give you an opportunity to plan, coordinate, and lead in a more independent manner than you may have done. You work will be reviewed and only accepted if done fully and well. Scale your project to be as chalenging as you need to give yourself the chance to learn and grow. Don't just pick something easy that will get by.

- I don't know if the 3 MB's are eagle required or not, but they offer the chance to learn something new or expand your knowledge. If you think you don't care about them, give it a try. You may be wrong.

- Completing something difficult that takes time, patience, and determination, especially sticking with it at the boring ending, is a quality worth developing. I often work with new engineers who want to do the design and make a first pass then call themselves done. Who wants to work on documentation, testing, and fixing minor problems?

It's not just about earning a rank, maybe having help with schools or jobs, or even inpiring other scouts in your troop to work to a goal. It's about you deciding what qualities you want to develop in yourself.

DonM

If he camped 5 days/nights at summer camp (and it counts) and 6 days/nights on other scout campouts, that would be 11 days/nights and he has 9 to go.

As to counting camping before the merit badge was signed, I think the requirements are vague in that it is not clear that projects toward merit badges have to be started after the blue card is signed. In the Guide to Merit Badge Councelling, talking about the first meeting with the scout, it states:

"In your discussion of what is expected, you may want to start by finding out what the Scout already knows. Spend some time helping him learn the remaining requirements, or give guidance in completing projects."

This implies (to me anyway) that some projects may have been started. Doing initial campouts seems to fit here.

However, why do you want to count these first 5 day/nights? Unless the scout is 17 1/2, he should have many weekends of camping ahead. The merit badge should be an opportunity to learn about camping and to improve camping skills and put them into practice.

DonM

Our troop also has an informal agreement that parents don't sign off on advancements or Eagle required merit badges for their own boys. This discourages the occasional parent who wants to speed their boy through. Still, if someone pushes it, we would allow it to be done.

In smaller troops, this can be impossible, though, as you may not have enough qualified MB councellors.

And I do sign-off (and perform) the SM conference on my boys although I have them go to an ASM for a seperate conference as well.

Hi Jamie,

Have fun at camp. Maybe they'll have training there that you can take as well. Lot's of our adults at summer camp do this.

Welcome to the forum.

DonM

Great reply by resqman.

A couple of minor additions:

- Lots and lots of sunscreen. Plan on reapplying every 1.5 to 2 hours if you want full protection - even the waterproof brands. Tans look great, but burns ruin vacations and skin cancer is deadly. The sun in the tropics is brighter and reflects off the ocean doubling the effect.

- Consider a second pair of sunglasses and a second cap. If they fall off, you don't want to squint for the rest of the week.

- Consider sending bugspray if they'll be stopping at any islands.

This is a great trip. Hope everyone has fun.

I haven't heard of this rule before. It would be a problem for me.

In the back of my van, the scouts can watch a movie (with headsets) for long drives. Then I can have a scout in front for a long SM conference or just to discuss stuff with them. This has become my best way of connecting with scouts - especially the older ones, and helping to train them or guide the program.

DonM

Most of the activity in a large pack occurs in the dens. Pack meetings, pack campouts, etc. are important, but, in my experience, it seems that it is the den meeting that makes everything fun.

The best thing I heard about the large troop was the emphasis on the training. A well trained den leader will make the den meeting (and other activities) fun while getting the advancements taken care of (especially in Webelos).

Small or large, make sure the pack leadership is trained.

Don

We've been working on this in our troop as well. The above suggestions are excellent. A couple of other suggestions that seem to be working for our scouts:

1) On troop campouts, divide into seperate activities by patrols. Go on different hikes or do activities based on what the patrol wants and needs.

2) At troop meetings, divide training among patrols, again based on what the patrol needs. For example, the new scout patrol might be trained by the troop guide for a cooking requirement. Another patrol would have a scout look up (or learn from an ASM) how to build a box oven for camping and would teach the others. Small group training seems to work better anyway.

3) As you work to develop patrols, do patrol games to help them work together. Anything where you work together as a group solving a problem or doing something together.

Good luck.

DonM

Our CO (the Lion's Club - a truly fine organization) had built us a hut for meetings a number of years ago. When the town needed the land, they arranged to move us to a town park with a 25 year lease. The town picks up the electricity and water/sewage.

We haven't had any real problems with vandals, but we do double-lock the doors to keep curiousity seekers out.

This has worked well for us as the Scouts have plenty of room to run around and do activities. One minor problem is that the park is locked after a certain hour and we need to arrange things if we run late. We also have to deal with lots of soccer players in Spring and Fall.

The main negative is that it is a definite limit to our size because of space. But since we can handle up to 50 (squeezing), it's been ok so far.

On the positive, the Scouts decorate it as they like, messy activities (painting patrol boxes, cleaning stuff) is no problem, and the Scouts feel like it is their space.

All in all, a good thing.

DonM

The Webelos can transfer to Boy Scouts if he has:

- Completed his Arrow of Light OR

- Completed 5th grade OR

- Is 11 through 17 years old.

Once the boy has joined Boy Scouts, he can no longer earned any Webelos awards (badges, Arrow of Light, etc.). But awards that have been earned can be presented to them.

At least that's how I read the regulations.

Having watched it from both sides the last 5 years, I think a March crossover works well. As was said, it gives the Scout time to settle before Summer camp.

It would be nice if a standard transition time was set. Troops that our fed from multiple packs can have new Scouts trickling in over three or four months. This makes it hard for the troop guides to organize the new Scout program.

DonM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution had two articles on 1/19/2002 that really made me think about the Pinewood derby.

One was written by a grown Cub (Nunzio Lupo) on his Derby experience. His dad had built the car completely, from design to the last coat of lacquer. As he says, "I would venture downstars occasionally to observe his progress and watch him work a little." His cars were consistent winners for appearance and speed. And he didn't feel deprived of the chance to build is own car. He spent much of his childhood feeling ashamed of differences between himself and other boys.

"Yet, for that one magic night a year, my father helped me play that little boys' game and not feel like a loser.

"More than he ever knew, it was a gift. I love him for it."

The other was written by a Dad (Nick Tate) who had struggled with how much to help his Cub. The first year, he did nothing and the wheels kept falling off the car. The second year, he took charge and made a nice car, but felt he had taken over too much. The third, they worked togeher. He concluded:

"We want our kids to show up at the track with a cool-looking car that really moves.

"But we need to resist the temptation to jump in and take over. Being a good derby dad means being a supportive guide and teacher, not a micromanaging boss. It may be the hardest thing for us to do - stand by as our kids make their own decision (and, let's face it, mistakes)."

Reading these, I realized that there isn't one simple answer to what the Pinewood Derby means. For some boys, the competition is good for them to learn about winning and losing. For some, the building is good as an exercise in independence or in working with their parent or even in watching their parent do something for them. Each boy, each family, is different, I suppose.

For myself, I've helped my 3 sons in 8 PDs (so far), some more, some less. I suggested that they build a car that they would enjoy playing with after the derby, to move a little of the focus off that one day. This created more tanks and battering rams than cars, but they seemed to have fun, before and after the race.

DonM

We are in the midst of SPL elections. We elect SPL every 6 months and follow with PL elections. I have a meeting with the SPL about the Scouts and the other leadership positions, then he chooses them (including ASPL). The PLs select their APL.

We have no specific requirements, but the Scouts seem to limit themselves to 1st class and up and the Scouts that go on campouts.

We usually have more than 2 runnning. After the first vote by secret ballot, the top 2 candidates (or more if there is a tie) have a runoff.

DonM

Hi,

I've been lurking for a while, but I really like this forum and am looking forward to joining the discussions.

I'm a new SM (about 6 months now) near Raleigh, NC. I've been ASM for a couple of years before that and was Cub Scout den leader from Tigers to Webelos. I also have 3 sons in Scouts (from Webelo to Star).

The training in Scouting has been excellent and has really sold me on the program (I was not a Scout as a boy). I think Boy Scouts has a great program and I'm determined to continue to bring that to my troop.

I've found this forum a real help (along with other Scouting forums and websites).

Thanks to everyone for participating.

DonM

The 2nd class cooking requirement, 2g, states:

On one campout, plan and cook over an open fire one hot breakfast or lunch for yourself...

Our troop has always interpreted this as a continuation of 2c, 2d, 2e and 2f. That is, the scout builds a cooking fire and then cooks over it. This seems important as it shows the scout how much wood is needed to cook, how to wait for coals, etc.

But looking at this again, I think the requirement could be met by cooking over a fire built by the patrol or troop. I don't want to create new requirements.

How do other troops handle this?

DonM