AKdenldr

Go see it's are much easier to plan then a den meeting -- and the boys love them. Just remember to make them all about the boys (no long winded adult questions about adult matters on the tours.)

And really when you see how your community will respond to those boys in blue shirts -- you wonder why every parent doesn't want their kids in scouts.

take pictures because the boys will forget how much fun they had two weeks ago.....

Boyhood is too short. Assist your son in finding a friendly, loyal, courteous, kind troop that fits his interests. One where the youth and adults want to connect with him. If he likes the guys he probably will enjoy the campouts (at least the fair weather ones...)

Been there, done that, got the t shirt...

Love it.

Another one is card turnover. Lay out a deck or three half up and half down on the gym floor, no pattern or organization necessary. Gather your group and divide in half. One team is face and one team is back. Go over that the cards remain on the floor (no moving or crumpling and be polite to each other). At the sound of go the teams turn the individual cards over to "their side".

Everyone can play this, and it goes on for a long time.

Lots of great ideas here Lisa. Below is roughly something I did with some success.

Do you have a den code of conduct that you developed with your webs? If not do that. As part of that, go over the web signature requirements with the boys.

I had some successes in the webelos years doing a "conference" with parent and scout (5-10 minutes). I would suggest that you have a conference with mom and scout.

Compliment the scout for something. Thank the mom for taking the time for the conference.

Go over the den code of conduct and the webelos sign off procedures (leave the past out of it)

ask if they understand and will abide by the code of conduct.

Ask the boy if he wants to continue in the den and earn his AOL or bridge to boyscouts

Then say something nice again about the boy, saying that you think he has the stuff to be a great young man or boy scout.

Thank them for their time, ask mom to stay for a bit and send boy on an out of room errand. Tell her that the web years are for preparing for Boy Scout troop (or increased independence of Junior High). Tell her that you don't think that he is yet getting the full benefit of the program because of lack of participation and his den behavior. Let her know that she will need to be present in monitoring her son's behavior if he does not meet up the code of conduct, and that might be as soon as the meeting after next. At that point if a parent can not be there, well you'll be sorry to lose scout from the den.

Update your CM with the details of what you did.

Post your den code of conduct at all meetings. Perhaps scan and send out in your parent communications.

Touch base with that parent after the next few meetings to let her know how scout did with his behavior.

I would then "conference" with other parent/scout sets throughout the year -- maybe just to talk about how scouts is going and any missing advancement pieces. A much more fun chat.

Best of luck to you. Scout is lucky to have you in his life.

Loy-36, if you currently only have 5 boys (I missed that before) -- you can do den sized things with them. Grab another adult and the boys, load up your minivan, and leave the building and do some field trips, walks, community service, whatever..... Slip in some bobcat requirements on the side....Look at what the boys can earn quickly (a belt loop or two) and have some fun earning them -- award them pretty quickly after earning. Continue to recruit, Hedgehog has some great ideas.

There is a thing called a den chief -- your local troop should know what one is... as your local troop for help.

Have the boys vote as a den. If they want them, have the parents pay for them either before the pack meeting or before the camping trip where you earn them (just include them in your activity fee -- another $2 will not be noticed on a weekend event.) I found the belt loops lost their attraction as the boys got into Webelos, but the concept that these are going away might mean that the boys will want them even more.

We had success with an "every parent leads" talk at a mandatory parent breakout at pack meeting (den leaders playing with the boys in the gym away from the CM and adult recruiting), followed by the white board approach. The concept is that every parent can do something and is expected to do something. (We did the list of things on poster board.) After signup the poster gets posted or otherwise published.

Closing of pack meeting, Scout son gets recognized (chocolate something or toy something) at the pack meeting for his parent signing up.... Tiger scout Matthew come on down! Matthew's dad is going to head up the fall hike, here's a chocolate bar for you to share with your dad....

We were in a new startup pack. Council gave us $ 50 credit in the store (which of course did not go far).

Definitely put a calendar and plan together for the pack for the year and put together a budget. Get thee some connections and get some support (locate and borrow a pinewood derby track). After uniforms I would put in 100 for a year long activity for my kiddo. (Back to school season being a difficult time, however.) Ask each family to put in so much in the kitty and provide periodic updates of where it goes to and how much is left (by each boy). You are going to need some pack stuff (flag?, activity supplies, etc).

Are you guys chartering this yourselves? Or do you have a charter organization? As them for a start up donation.

Then do plan on fundraising in some way.

Best of luck. Get thee some support. (besides us)

We found the foil packet cooking too much for Pack sized campout. (plus the waste of the tin foil)

Dutch oven, #10 can of chili with Jiffy box corn bread topping. A couple of dutch oven deserts (dump style recipes -- can of pie filling, box of cake mix, and ...). Or baked apples in the D.O. -- boys can use their pocket knives. Yes the boys can help, in fact they will eat more if they do. (Instruct the adults, "only scout hands do the work...")

hotdogs on a stick over the campfire.

Mountain man breakfast (D.O. again, eggs, precooked bulk sausage, grated cheese, and frozen shredded potatoes). Set up a camp stove with griddle and the webelos can cook pancakes to add to the D.O. breakfast. Big Kettle of water for coffee, hot choc, and instant oatmeal.

Do, set up a dish washing station (boys do wash at least their own) and don't rely on bags and bags of disposable cups and plates.

Have fun!

~~Hello All,

When I was a den leader I charged a den deposit which covered everything (BSA registration, room rent at the local school, awards, books, activities within the dens, pinewood derby cars, den supplies). I covered everything except summer camp and campouts. It ran $ 150 ($100 for tigers). I kept a spreadsheet which showed the running balance for each scout, which I shared with the parents several times a year. Sometimes in the spring we would need a little influx $ 15 or so to bridge the gap or cover a trip to the bowling alley.

As the pack grew and matured (and started popcorn) pack activities became covered, room rent got covered, and pack campouts got covered. My annual den deposit stretched longer. If we had an overage we applied part to camp. I had one leave with a balance and the parents donate the balance to the den.

I think the secret was communication. This deposit system might work for some den leaders. Having a weekly cash collection from the kids (like when I was a scout 75 cents per week) would have driven me crazy. (or nickel and dime-ing the parents for each event, activity, and supply also!)

I do not think $ 40 supply fee of OP was excessive. But, had she seen good communication on the spending she might have been reassured.

AK

With regards to the second grade boy who has religious ed classes this year I think a conversation with the parents is in order. Most probably the classes are required, but there will be a definite end to them. In some larger churches there might even be a choice of nights. Parents could cover the items you are covering and commit to making the field trips and activities that scout can come to. Otherwise, if it is a permanent conflict with religious ed, perhaps there is another den or pack that meets on a different day.

Shutterbug, all great ideas, which I did use.

However I haven't seen the most effective idea... make an achievement poster with the requirements listed that you have done or asked to be done at home. Each meeting for a short bit put stickers on what each scout has completed. This helps the boys SEE their advancement. You don't want to make this a big deal cause boys can be scouts and have great experiences without earning any awards.

(I also would have 'requirement roundups' prior to the Blue and Golds where I could tidy up all those pesking missing items with the scouts who had missed. Usually a block of time on the weekend.)

Best of luck.

You can remember being seven

You like other peoples' kids

80 percent of a cub experience is the den. Make that a terrific experience and your son will have a good year. Especially webs who should be out growing many pack experiences. Plan some web camping. Do some outdoor activities with troops. Follow the other 2 ideas for pack recruitment. It Will be fine.

Around here door to door after dinner with product makes about $ 200 / hr scout and parent or 2 scouts. Best if it is after dinner and raining in full uniform with the little red wagon. Restock from parent's car down the block if necessary. I suspect it is best if boy does his own neighborhood.

Show and sell, depends on location and when it is during the popcorn season. As low as one bag in a 2 hour shift to sky's the limit. First year scout with an older scout the best combo.

Boys find the store thing the easiest until they have experience then they tend to sell on their own.

Sending a patrol out in a neighborhood on the meeting night near the charter organization has a very poor result, in my humble opinion.

Yes. That is too many. Put your foot down and do the boys a service and get the den size down. I liked 8 as a top number. I think BSA recommends 6-8. (You must have been running a good program last year that so many signed up.) I see 3 dens with a little room for growth.

Resist the urge to be the Bear den leader for this crowd with 4 or so assistant leaders. This makes you a project manager and curriculum planner. I'm sure you are not volunteering in scouting to do that. Instead offer to mentor the other bear den leaders and co-plan some group outings.

Remember that the den is the small group where the scouts can form and maintain friendships differently than school. 23 boys is a classroom!

23 is a pack size for many many packs.

Keep us posted.

~~There is a pack associated with a private school (Texas I think) that has an "everyone leads" philosophy (google them, I don't have it here).

Basically every adult had to sign up for a position or a task. I think you could borrow on their language for your letter, ask folks to be ready to come to the pack meeting and signup. Then at the first meeting send the kids outside with your den leaders to play some fun games and have big posters filled with all the events and tasks. Start again talking about the philosophy and how the pack is going to have a great year. Ask adults to fill in a task. (Hot ones: pinewood derby (3 adults), fall campout (3), popcorn kernel (1 plus assistant), summer camp paper guru (1), recharter paper pusher (1), October hike (1).... you get the idea.) If the events don't have a honcho -- maybe they don't happen. Put the names next to the tasks.

When the boys come back in recognize each boy for each adult signup. "Will Bear cub scout Tim come on down to the front? Tim's dad Tom is the popcorn kernel. Thanks Tim and Tom."

Do not come from a grouchy, tired, lecturing place, "I'm too busy to do it all on my own". Come from a excited, all for the boys, we're going to have a great year type of language, jump in and join the fun, type of place. (No tentative volunteer wants to put their hand up for something that will be too hard or not fun.)

(Since you are changing the culture of the pack, You will have to follow up on adults who did not make the meeting or did not sign up for a task. Post the sign up poster in a public place or display at further meetings.)

Best of luck. We had a lot of success with this approach.

Lordy, I saw this misunderstanding at Cub Scout camp a few years ago. Kids couldn't do anything because adults thought every trip to dining hall to pick up a lost jacket or bathroom required 2 adults and 2 kids. They only had 2 adults so the whole pack had to go to the bathroom together, every time anyone needed to go! (Not to mention adults galore swarming the camp from other packs and staff.) What a way to ruin a fun week!

2 deep is for the pack outing. No one-on-one is for all scout experiences. Boys should have some freedom. Grab your buddy and find the bathroom on your own, take an adult if you are not sure where it is. Adult stay outside, or in an emergency leave the door ajar a tiny bit.

Some adults in our troop think 2 adults are needed to supervise 2 scouts selling popcorn in a busy grocery store. Still working on that....

As I remember we did not do Citizenship in the Fall. We restarted the Web 1 year with some fun, active, move your body, non academic ones. Then we had an expert (lawyer Mom) who did it in 2-3 longer den meetings with an additional field trip. She was somewhat surprised that the 4th grade boys handled it less well than the 4th grade girl scouts with similar content.

As our service the boys selected to serve soup at the soup kitchen for folks on the street. (Different local expert handled that.) That was the most amazing experience for all.

In general I suggest to make Webelos the least like school as possible. Hands on and active. Turn learning things into games. Move it around and get it moving. Add in some just for fun things.

Our meetings were about 90 minutes including a snack, about twice a month plus about 7 field trips a year. Plus camping.

Love your enthusiasm.

The old Webelos Den Leader guide had a lot of great hands on ideas in general for Web leaders. I recommend it for the ideas. Focus on hands on and active in general. (Sounds like you get this idea by trying to 'sneak in the learning').

Add some games in your plan. You can plan all those things for your campout, but boys will be working on camping skills also. I suggest planning a completion of one webelos pin and plan some additional hands on items if your guys have energy and attention. Not everything needs to be an achievement towards awards. I suggest planning additional campouts and hikes in your Webs schedule where you accomplish some of the other things (along with games, more games, and time for fishing.)

Have fun with your boys and write back and tell us how it is going.

As a den leader who took boys from tigers through bears I would find out what was going on with the "bull in the china shop" new guy and if he had the backing from others to do this. Then I would privately decide if I wanted to continue to volunteer in the program, wanted to continue to have my kid in the program, or wanted to take my den, which I invested three years in, to another program in total. A forth option is to form a small pack for my den.

Personally I would not be interested in volunteering in an organization with such an autocratic guy.

Like any other recruiting.....Jot a list of skills / talents / aptitude that any volunteer position requires. Then take a look at your parent roster and identify candidates. Ask each one in person. If the job is too big, cut it down in size. Tell your candidate why you think they would do a good job (not why the pack is desperate).... "I noticed how much you enjoy the scouting program. You seem to remember what it is like to be a seven year old boy. You seem like a natural ham. I like how you can tell silly jokes...."

Also, have you created a culture of "everyone lends a hand?". Expect all adults to fill a role in your pack. (Easiest to do at the fall gearing up time.)

Best of luck

HH,

If you carefully read the choices for the Outdoorsman's Webelos pin you will find that a scout can earn it without sleeping in a tent. (Some packs whose churches discourage sleeping away from family before 11 years old do the Outdoorsman as a day long event.)

Is it possible for your son to attend the day portions of resident camp as a day camper with his den? A scout can do this in our council cub camp. This would enable him to have many of the same experiences as the rest of the den. (More parental work with transportation but worth it.) He might even find that he is more comfortable as the week goes by and would like to try spending a night -- perhaps with parent's tent right beside.

I suspect that your Webelos den leaders realize that not much was accomplished in the last year and are looking for the resident camp to fill in the gap. This may contribute to their pushing attendance. I would advise you to become pretty well versed in the requirements of your son's book yourself.

I agree that a boy scout troop might be a shocker in half a year for your son. If he does bridge with his den (not necessary), be ready to be putting in some time in careful troop selection and participate in the troop as an active parent for some time.

Best of luck with this next year or so in scouting.

AK

FSUscout, thanks, but that link doesn't seem relevant to me. Although fire is involved this is not a youth and fire starting situation, this is adult using a flammable chemical for a ceremony.

Eagle92,

Can you quote the part in GTSS that says that ceremonies involving flaming scarves are not allowed? I could not find it.