David CO

True but our Troop will never turn a boy away because he and his family does not have the resources to pay the actual full cost for him to be in the program.  All we ask of each boy is that they do there best.  

That is where the Chartered Organization is supposed to step up.

The boys should be planning and running the fundraisers.

No it isn't. The boys are supposed to pay their own way.

So which is it?

BSA has always suggested that boys do small fundraising projects like collecting recyclables, mowing lawns, raking leaves, shoveling sidewalks, washing cars, etc.. This is what I meant by boys planning and running their own fundraisers. 

These small fundraisers are not at all inconsistent with the scouting ideal of pay your own way. So it is not really a question of "which is it".

Fundraising is not part of the BSA program for boys.  

No it isn't. The boys are supposed to pay their own way.

At the end of the meeting while the SM had stepped out of the room I was asked by the group to make sure that the flag was not ordered by the SM.  

The SM is supposed to supervise the ASM, not the other way around.

This is the same group of parents of the Webeloes that are moving over to the Troop.   

 

These same parents were at the meeting.  Total raised from the fund raiser was given and how the funds were to be used. 

 

These same parents had already ordered and paid for a Troop Flag.  

Do you really not see the problem here?

 

Also in other good news.  In the 10 years that I have been working with the troop until now we have never had any parents step up and handle any fund raising activities with the troop.  Just completed an very successful BBQ Pork plate and raffle fund raiser this weekend that all details involves were handled by the parents.  

This is not good news. The boys should be planning and running the fundraisers.

How about having a group of COR's in each region oversee the polling. We could call it the Chartered Organization Representatives Regional Unit Polling Team. Now, if only I could think of an acronym.

So where are we?

 

Poll units. Each unit gets one vote as determined by majority of scouts voting in unit.

 

Who constructs poll?

 

OA conducts voting and?

 

Then what?

Why should OA conduct the voting? 

   

If no one shows up,  it is too bad for the boys, but c'est la guerre, la vie, la Pack....

I don't think anyone said the den leaders weren't showing up. This would be a very different issue if they weren't showing up.

I also know for a fact that the Charter Organization Rep and the Executive Officer of the Charter Organization would have signed off on what was done if they would have been asked.

 

Then why didn't you ask them?

When I was an IH, I would have never approved an arrangement whereby the unit is run by a defacto leadership different from the one I appointed and listed on the recharter papers. 

 

We took over the den due to the fact that there den leaders had no idea how a Boy Scout Troop worked to be able to complete most of the requirements for the Arrow of Light Award. 

    

If I were the IH of this cub scout unit, I would be irate. First, I would ban your troop from my building. Second, I would raise all sorts of "Cain" with the council.

Those den leaders were appointed by their Chartered Organization. You weren't.

The fact that you consider this unit to be your "feeder" unit doesn't give you ownership or authority to make any changes in its leadership or programs.

Should that control and justify giving adults control of an organization for boys? How is the fact adults take over at this level any different than adults taking over a troop or lodge? It’s the same excuse being used just on a larger scale. I get that working with kids is tough and it takes longer to get things done because we don’t see the big picture. But isn’t that what Scouting is about and why adults stay in scouting so long? Or is it really about reliving your youth? I’m starting to think for many adults it’s the latter though not necessarily you.

Scouting was started by adults. Your unit was chartered by adults. I think you are going just a bit too far when you suggest that adults stepped in and took over scouting. 

The role of adults in a boy scout troop is to provide oversight, guidance, and supervision. It is not to run the activities. Scouting is a game for boys.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the importance of the proper role that adults play in scouting. Yes, you can and should speak out when you see adults stepping outside of their assigned roles and getting involved in playing a boys' game. Just don't confuse that with the actions of adults who are simply carrying out their proper duties.

I had to laugh at the notion that old people like myself in scouting are trying to relive our youth. We are very well aware of the fact that it is not possible. Youth and childhood are fond and distant memories now. 

My parents, aunts and uncles, teachers, coaches, and scout leaders are all gone now. All the adults from my childhood have passed on. I don't miss being a boy scout and playing boy scout games.  I miss my leaders. I loved them, and I do sorely miss them.

Technically, that's one vote per CO. 

No kidding. I didn't know that. We only had one unit, and it never occurred to me to ask. 

As articulate as your replies have been, I'm not entirely sure your experience should carry the same weight as someone [edited] who worked with multiple generations of units. 

 

On the other hand, he is going to have to live with the consequences a lot longer. 

Well, camped this weekend and he was either laughing or miserable.  Claims it was a waste of his time but say him happy when he allowed himself to be happy.  Just don't know what to do.

It speaks very highly for your son that he is able to be pleasant even when he is not having a good time. A scout is cheerful.

They say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. People give in to the kids who act out. It is often the cheerful, respectful, well-behaved boys who are forced to stick it out in an activity they don't enjoy.

A very large FOS donation would be required to request a survey.

 

Pay to play is basically the system we have right now. Codifying it in this way, giving it a veil of legitimacy, would be a terrible idea.

A scout unit already has a lot of skin in the game.

Polls to be fair should be equitable (one person one vote no weighting), secure (keeps people voting more than once) and id specific (the person voting is the person registered). It’s the same premise for our political elections.

It has long been a tradition of scouting that we vote as a unit. One unit, one vote. I don't think the problem is with scouts not having a direct individual vote. The real problem is that the unit votes don't count for anything anymore.

In an ideal poll, the voices of the scouts would be reflected in their units' votes. 

Stop this.

No, I won't stop this. The execs can stomp all over us on their home turf, but they can't do it here. Scouters need a place like this where we can speak out and tell the truth without fear of retaliation.

BSA does have a clear revenue stream. They can close a hundred small campgrounds to pay for their luxurious mountaintop retreat for their top execs and billionaire boy scouts.

Wasn't the original cost of the Summit around $400m? And they took out a bond too with the local county (or through the local county). Don't recall the cost of that but I cannot imagine they are even close to paying it off. 

I've always thought of the Summit as a luxury lodge for the senior execs, much like the exclusive retreat for generals in The Dirty Dozen.

My unit has never gone to any of these places. They are way beyond our budget.

I don't much like the idea of national raising our fees to pay for other peoples extravagances. I like even less the idea that national might have changed the membership policies in order to pay for it.

So when "a unanimous decision" is reached by the National Executive Board is that 76 votes or a quorum vote?  

What difference does it make? A rubber stamp is a rubber stamp.

Considering the huge divide based on political party affiliation, it would seem that the BSA national leadership is skewed towards one political party.

We are truly in trouble if question marks are interpreted as hostility.

 

In my case, they are absolutely right. I am hostile towards the people who are ruining BSA. I am very hostile, and I will freely admit it. 

I will agree to tone down my language, in an effort to have a more civil discourse, but that will not alter my hostility. If some people on the forum can still sense my hostility through my use of punctuation marks, I can only applaud them for their insight. 

Perhaps give me the benefit of the doubt? I'd do the same for you.

Fair enough. I'll tone it down a bit.

 

I don't see how you can talk about one form of segregation and not see correlations to others. It isn't a straw man to bring up the fact that BSA used to be segregated by color and no longer is.

 

What is the next form of "segregation" in which you will see correlations to bigotry? Religion? Is religion the next thing on your agenda?