David CO

In my state, all lakes are considered to be public property. A scout camp can own all of the land surrounding a lake, but not the lake itself. That part of a boat ramp that crosses the shoreline and extends into the water would be on public property.

My guess is that the survey is being done to determine where the camp's property ends and the public property begins.

I have seen public/private agreements whereby the camp supplies the access road, and a government entity pays for the underwater ramp. It is often a good deal for the camp.

You don't do this to your Scouts, do you?

Constantly. They can expect a disapproving glare from the back of the room if the conversation strays into the forbidden zone.

It is hard to recruit volunteers when you are also asking them to pay for the privilege. I wonder if the commercial would be required to carry a disclaimer informing the viewers of all the costs involved, much like a medicine commercial disclosing all of the possible side effects.

What the heck is (8) a 'Family Troop'?

If your unit eats out at Olive Garden, you are a family troop. If you prepare your own meals on a campfire, you are a Boy Scout troop.

Ok, we agree to disagree. But I stated an observation of the last 25 years, not a theory or whim. My theory is that the program in 20 years will not resemble the program of 1992 because it was lost thru generations of adult leaders without a scouting experience. Less than 25 percent of new leaders joining the BSA today had a scouting experience. Is my theory really so hard to believe?

 

Barry

I also disagree. It has been my observation that the scouting program is being drastically changed by the execs, almost all of whom have extensive scouting backgrounds. We are not being undermined by inexperienced outsiders. We are being betrayed by eagle scouts. That's why it hurts so much.

As a Scoutmaster, two trained and qualified ASM's I have

Were you trained by Yoda?

I’m in nursing in high school and I get certified as a nursing assistant

Let me get this straight. You are a high school boy who is studying to be a nurse, and it is the boy scout thing that you feel will get you snickers from other boys.

That's my area. I cannot think of a CO, besides LDS, that has anything to really do with Scouting. They treat most units as renters rather than as extensions of their ministry. We've tried for years to work with our CO to get closer. 

I can't quite tell if the OP wants more unit autonomy or a better relationship with the CO.

Do it. You will be surprised at how many compliments you get.

You would be surprised how many people will think along the lines of "This is Scouts, what does the church have to do with it?"

You are absolutely right.

I just found out tonight that he is letting his scouts decide if they want to go to another troop. The boys went to the SM and CC and asked if they could meet with the council and discuss the unfounded accusations with them and let them know that the troop and scouts are going to be the ones hurt by this decision. 

Of course the scouts can decide if they want to go to another troop. They don't need his permission, or anyone else's.

He should not be involving the boys in his dispute. The boys won't be hurt because he is not an ASM. They might be hurt if the adults keep involving them in their adult dramas.

I think the IH and COR are entirely correct in their decision to not allow the boys to be used in an effort to intervene in the adult leader selection process.

The COR now wants to get involved in the recharter process.  

I think this is also a very good idea.

The Council told the CC that starting with this guys application, they were going to review and approve all Adult Applications.

I think you meant to say that the Chartered Organization is going to review and approve all adult applications. I think this is a very good idea. 

The SSN is only supposed to be on the council copy of the application anyway, so it can be used for the criminal background check. The space for the SSN is blacked out on the unit copy. Which of course does not mean that there isn't other personal information on the application, so an app that is rejected by the CO should immediately be returned to the applicant.

I might be inclined to agree with you if this was a first time applicant. 

A few years ago the Cub Scout Pack he was the Cubmaster for left this CO. 

If this is so, then the CO would already have his information from his CM application. I wonder how the information on his ASM application is so different from his earlier CM application that he feels a such a strong need to have it returned.

I am amazed if some of you have a school district paying for ANYTHING!

There are grants available. It doesn't usually come out of the regular budget.

As a parent, the middle-school and high school coed outdoor clubs that I have known have had few adults involved. Two or three outdoorsy manly or amazonly advisors and none of them were student parents. 

 

My $0.02

My experience has been that school Outdoor Education programs and camping clubs are often supervised by History and Foreign Language teachers, not exactly the stereotypical types you describe.

Most schools ask teachers to supervise at least one activity. The PE teachers coach sports. Science teachers do Science Fair. Music and Art teachers do performances and plays. Math and English teachers do academic bowls. This kinda leaves the Social Studies department to do Outdoor Education. 

I agree that school based activities tend to have fewer adults (and far fewer parents) involved than in scouting. Perhaps that is why they are gaining in popularity. I find that somewhat ironic considering that scouting is supposed to be more boy led than the school programs.

I learned to swim in a pool (and in the Monongahela River and some ponds rife with Snapping Turtles sometimes)

Is a titanium athletic cup considered a swimming aid?

 The mentor works with the boy, encourages him, coaches him along the way. 

I was a Lone Scout. This sounds a lot like Lone Scouting. I wonder if the committee member was himself a Lone Scout, and is now tying to apply his scouting experiences to the troop.

When I became a Scoutmaster, I had to put aside many of my personal experiences as a Lone Scout and learn how to do scouting as a troop.  

I have no idea when or where the PLC meet. They can meet at any time or location that is convenient to their schedules. It makes no difference to me.

The SPL schedules meetings at the church with the SM and committee as necessary to report on the consensus of the PLC. 

I think it is terribly unfair that you guys with ADHD get all the sympathy. You even get you own acronym.

The average teenage boys, who are as slow as a sloth, lethargic as a piece of dead driftwood in a stagnant pond, and as lazy as a 14 year old basset hound on a humid 90 degree July afternoon, get no such favorable treatment. It's just not fair.  

You know what scares me?  Falling through the ice. That's very dangerous, and to my knowledge, there's nothing in Scouting that really covers surviving that kind of accident.  

I learned ice rescues at YMCA. Only had to use it once, when a father and his 8 year old son went through the ice in Lake Geneva.

If I were you, I would put your helmet on, now.   

Perhaps a cheddar shaped helmet for WisconsinMomma.

I'm curious to what you're seeing as the progression goes from new scout and scouting family to a more experienced scouting family one or two years later.   How do things change over time?

My unit doesn't have scouting families. We have scouts and scout leaders. Some of them are related. Some aren't.

I'll chime in with the experience of being a newer parent in the Troop.   I'm not a helicopter parent, but... I am a parent with a strong interest in Scouting.  Some folks may feel that's just as bad, or may as well be the same thing.  My question for your friend's troop is -- how are they communicating with parents, and what opportunities are they making for the parents to be involved?  

 

An active parent can be a resource for a Troop.  Do you need fundraising, a committee position filled, support with rides, etc?  Is there any way that you can fit in a helicopter parent into your program and start more of a relationship with the family?  

 

In my experience, I have felt some frustration with my son's troop committee (my boys' experiences in the troop itself are very good) because I want to be active, but... there is a bit of an, "we've always done it this way" culture. We have some old-timers, perhaps one in particular, who has exerted a lot of influence over the adult leadership, although that is gradually changing and more parents of current scouts are getting involved.  Experienced adult leaders are wonderful, but not when it comes across as a resistance to any change or new idea. I have felt frustrated with an adult committee dominated by Scouters whose children are long grown up, and who I occasionally hear complaining about current parents not stepping up when, in my view, there's little room made for them!  Experienced Scouters get a lot done and they make the program stronger, but... current parents must be welcomed and brought into the organization, too.   There has got to be a balance and respect going both ways. 

 

Parents are part of the Scouting team, and a negative bias towards parents hurts the program.  

Yes, there has to be a balance and respect going both ways.

In my unit, a leader's authority is not based on age, experience, or the number of years service in the unit. It is based on the leadership position held. A 25 year old Scoutmaster outranks a 50 year old ASM.

Some parents come into our unit expecting it to be very egalitarian, with everyone having an equal say. We don't do it that way. We want everyone to be treated with respect.  We also want everyone to acknowledge and respect the leadership positions we hold.