dana_renner

Bob

here is that site again

www.cedu.niu.edu/scied/db_crew/Dan_Beard_Rover_Crew html

Bob

What more can I say? Have you read anything concerning Rover Scouts, there are some right here in the USA, They are not just UK they are worldwide. Some are in BSA and some are in independent forms of scouting. What A Venturing crew can do with Rovering is get the nuts and bolts BP style of scouting within the crew program.Bob look into Rovering check out WWW.cedu.niu./scied/ db_crew/Dan_Beard_Rover_Crew html read into it for your self this is an active Venturing Crew .

Trail Pounder

I guess it's up the Sea Scout and what they want to accomplish and how serious they are about this. Also some ships are not traditional and do not use the advancement program. I would think that a well motivated Sea Scout could advance in 3 years by the time he or she is 17 they could have the Quartermaster. The hurdles are commitment on their part, school, sports, band, hobbies, social life many many. Youth in this age group seem to have Cars and Girls or Cars and Boys on their minds and also if the program is fun and exciting.

Bob

Specifically Rovering as a specialty can work within the Venturing crew structure to deliver an outdoor and service program, I guess the same way that Venturing without Rovering could do. However deep in Rovering is the Basics that scouting was founded on just it is geared to appeal to older youth and young adults. The nuts and Bolts of scouting are there. A more BP style program and this would be beneficial to Venturers who do not have previous scouting experience and would be a renewal for those Venturers who are previous or who are currently in Venturing. It is international in scope it is a world movement which can benefit a crew. Maybe this does not make sense in some peoples eyes. The program I believe would benefit a Venturing Crew who would use it. And Instill more scout spirit. I am not saying Venturing does not have that, just many crews need it. The way Venturing is set up the crew could miss out on it.

Bob

Isn't Rovering a more basic form of the same thing that we have in Venturing? In one of the posts mentioned here today we see that we had a Rovering Scout leader say that they used the Venturing structure to deliver the Rovering program as a specialty for that Venturing Crew, What I am referring here to is the Rovering specialty in as a specialty to Outdoor Crews in Venturing. However the problems are basic, Yes I agree teach and work with youth where they are at and maybe doing another specialty is not the answer for a particular crew. In some crews the problems are that the youth are not committed, school work, sports, band etc get in the way. This is understandable, I do not like it but it is a fact of life we cannot avoid. But I have even heard many youth talk about a second specialty for the crew to check into. This talk was from crew presidents. Again a thing on inspiration.

Calling all Venturers in Arts and Hobbies, Religious Life and Sea Scouts and Sports how is the Venturing Program administered in your particular crews and specialties and clusters?

Bob: Doesn't leadership in any group have to be inspired?

doesn't it have to have goals

something to base itself on

These crews have elections for new leaders every year and yes there is a plethora of information and training manuals produced by BSA. The problem is boredom. buisness meetings on business meetings

Venturing is supposed to have some action in it am I right. Youth have to be Inspired. Also in co-ed crews boys have to accept the fact that girls have the right to be there too, according to Venturing literature, right. Rovering does exist worldwide even in the WOSM even some still in BSA as we see in Venturing Crew 1, Dan Beard Rover Crew. Maybe this would inspire the youth maybe not , worth a try I think so .

Bob I am not trying to re-invent anything. There are many crews that have a problem with keeping youth in them. Also in Venturing there seems to be a loss of scouting. They are as you might say quite lax. Many of them do not seem to have a knowledge of the roots of scouting. Even some Boy Scouts that are Venturers seem to be bored with the whole thing. Now some of this is them being just teenagers. But some of this is a lack of excitement. But I believe this is always been a problem in scouting particularly with teenage boys. That might be a reason why Venturing is co-ed in some crews. The crews have to scramble to get a program and with crews being youth led if the youth are not inspired, very poor crew program. And then Unit Commissioners have to try to keep Advisors excited about the program too. That is why I look into some other forms that were once tried. From what I see Rover Scouts is a similar program with a deep well to draw from and I feel this would do go with an Outdoor Adventure Crew as a side specialty or maybe a main specialty this again would be up to the youth in any particular crew. Doesn't hurt to ask questions.

Bob I believe that a Venturing Crew could do everything a Rovering Crew could do. The Rovering Scout program as a specialty could enhance Venturing's focus in scouting. Give roots to it's wings so to say. It could enhance Venturing's outreach to service clubs and High Adventure clubs. Venturers that are Rovers would be an outreach to both youth like other scouting youth. and to adults maybe other scouters. especially Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts in that 18-21 year old range. Also they could still remain registered as Rovers even after they completed their Venturing program on their 21st birthday. Just imagine Bob what A Boy Scout/Venturer/Rover Scout could be quite a resource especially in OA and also as A Venturer serving packs, troops teams other crews. Venturers who are specialize in the Rovering specialty could learn more about scouting, especially Venturers who never were in scouting before, male and female those in co-ed crews since Rovering is co-ed too. For further information please see WWW.Geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/roverscout.html

Rover Scout: how does your crew then balance the rovering and the

venturing aspects of your program? Are the 2 other crews you mentioned also doing venturing with the rovering program?

Thank you for the information.

Bob I will endeavor at this time to end this confusion you have with my observations and remarks. You are right about the position that for years the BSA did not practice equality, it now seems to do so some granted I will give you that. And for years Exploring did not practice it either until the early 1970's. You however are wrong about a few things I first of all am not in the OA although I would like to be I am not in favor of the OA changing the rules just for me. In the council that I am in there are some Venturing crew advisors that are also scoutmasters that are in the Order of the Arrow that would like to see OA change it's policy on female Venturing Youth. I do realize that for many years BSA kept women out of most scouting programs other than Cub Scouts where at first they were Den Mothers and that changed to Den Leaders. And when I mentioned yesterday 3-14-04 that Exploring had a female president in the 1970's I was referring to this as a Victory somewhat for women in a mostly male organization. I do share a concern with you wanting to see Venturers and youth admitted to OA also I do not believe that the camping requirements where it would be kept track of for OA purposes for that matter any crew can go camping as you say and for any reason they want to but the people who do it have their own reasons for going and if they want to be considered for OA wouldn't they be more likely to want to camp with a crew or a ship. I do not mean that OA membership could or would keep a crew from camping or make them do any more camping. If female Venturers were elected to the OA saying that OA would open to Venturing they like any female adult, or youth could be an asset. Where the problem is with all this that for anyone to think that this will happen may be mistaken, first of all OA would have do a lot of change, that may happen, but I do not believe it will. I do believe that Venturing will have to look in an Honor Society of it's own. This will take OA off the hook

as far as Equality is concerned in BSA,OA Venturing and the rest of the BSA program is concerned it can be done but only within the Scout Oath and Law, Venturing Code and Oath, and the other oaths and promises of Scouting. As far as me being in the OA, That would be up to the District Commissioners in my District and that is between me and them.Sorry about my poor computing skills only been at this a short time first computer and all that. Again Thanks Bob.

what I am suggesting is something that is similar to the old Exploring Service Team concept and where there are enough crews and ships in the council or district to substantiate this kind of an organization. I've noticed in past programs there were district exploring commissioners, why can't there be district venturing commissioners working with Venturing units but under the DC maybe someone could be A DVC with the ADC training and supplement it going through the Venturing adult leader training. going through the same training as any other commissioner would. Specializing more in Sea Scouts and Venturing. And these commissioners could specialize in the Venturing areas more and know more about these things and be a positive resource for their crews and ships.

My involvment with Venturing comes as such I currently am a Unit Commissioner with a Venturing Crew, I was a Venturing Advisor and Civil Air Patrol project officer for a Crew that was in CAP squadron and I was a previous Assistant Scoutmaster in a troop ASM-Venture not a crew but with a patrol in a Troop. I have went through the training and went through the University of Scouting and Venturing and Exploring and Sea Scouts are my primary interest. I am very concerned with Venturers going into OA because I believe that BSA is a basically based on equality and I feel that Venturers no matter of what the cluster or specialty should have the same opportunity as Varsity and Boy Scouts have to be a part of a great historical and contemporary honor camping fellowship based on great traditions of the Native peoples of our continent. I however am not an OA member I am sorry to say, I wish I was because there is so much interesting things about this. However I wish to see Venturers adults and youth be admitted to this and not to bend the rules but let them go through the camping requirements, and I believe that Female Venturers can be a asset to any lodge that they received their ordeal through. I do have an OA Handbook that I purchased a while back that I bought from store that deals with antiques and such it is from 1975 and as of that time Explorers went through Post elections and had to have 50% of the Vote and this was 4 years after the inclusion of young women into Exploring and also may I add of women into certain leadership roles in BSA as Volunteer Adult leaders and certain professional positions. Also around this time Exploring had a National President that was female. No I am not screaming women's rights but I am saying if people are in Venturing then they should be eligible for OA if they meet the Eligibility requirements for nomination. I will say in reference to the Explorer

question it was male Explorers who had this. They could be elected from 14-20 according to this manual the First Class Requirement was for Boy Scouts and not for Explorers but they had to be registered in a ship or post 6 months prior to the election.Camping requirement was the same for Scouts or Explorers. Maybe the reason why the big fuss is now as Venturing is going more along a trail it seems to be blazing for itself is that it is discovering more of what it was under the Outdoor/High Adventure Exploring and this time BSA may have to make room for Young women to be involved with OA. There are other proposals for Honor Societies especially in Venturing, COD the Order of the Trident(Sea Scouts) and this was proposed in 1995 when there were still Sea Explorers and Member of the Year I just wrote a plan for Venturing in our council to have a Venturing Honor Society be along the lines of APO Alpha Phi Omega. Venturers of all clusters and specialties should be give the same opportunities to participate in an Honor Society especially if they meet the criteria, Bob thanks for your inquiry hope I did not bore you I love scouting Venturing in particular I ask questions to learn and to learn off of experienced scouters. again thanks Dana

My involvment with Venturing comes as such I currently am a Unit Commissioner with a Venturing Crew, I was a Venturing Advisor and Civil Air Patrol project officer for a Crew that was in CAP squadron and I was a previous Assistant Scoutmaster in a troop ASM-Venture not a crew but with a patrol in a Troop. I have went through the training and went through the University of Scouting and Venturing and Exploring and Sea Scouts are my primary interest. I am very concerned with Venturers going into OA because I believe that BSA is a basically based on equality and I feel that Venturers no matter of what the cluster or specialty should have the same opportunity as Varsity and Boy Scouts have to be a part of a great historical and contemporary honor camping fellowship based on great traditions of the Native peoples of our continent. I however am not an OA member I am sorry to say, I wish I was because there is so much interesting things about this. However I wish to see Venturers adults and youth be admitted to this and not to bend the rules but let them go through the camping requirements, and I believe that Female Venturers can be a asset to any lodge that they received their ordeal through. I do have an OA Handbook that I purchased a while back that I bought from store that deals with antiques and such it is from 1975 and as of that time Explorers went through Post elections and had to have 50% of the Vote and this was 4 years after the inclusion of young women into Exploring and also may I add of women into certain leadership roles in BSA as Volunteer Adult leaders and certain professional positions. Also around this time Exploring had a National President that was female. No I am not screaming women's rights but I am saying if people are in Venturing then they should be eligible for OA if they meet the Eligibility requirements for nomination. I will say in reference to the Explorer

question it was male Explorers who had this. They could be elected from 14-20 according to this manual the First Class Requirement was for Boy Scouts and not for Explorers but they had to be registered in a ship or post 6 months prior to the election.Camping requirement was the same for Scouts or Explorers. Maybe the reason why the big fuss is now as Venturing is going more along a trail it seems to be blazing for itself is that it is discovering more of what it was under the Outdoor/High Adventure Exploring and this time BSA may have to make room for Young women to be involved with OA. There are other proposals for Honor Societies especially in Venturing, COD the Order of the Trident(Sea Scouts) and this was proposed in 1995 when there were still Sea Explorers and Member of the Year I just wrote a plan for Venturing in our council to have a Venturing Honor Society be along the lines of APO Alpha Phi Omega. Venturers of all clusters and specialties should be give the same opportunities to participate in an Honor Society especially if they meet the criteria, Bob thanks for your inquiry hope I did not bore you I love scouting Venturing in particular I ask questions to learn and to learn off of experienced scouters. again thanks Dana

First of all I am not in the OA, and my knowledge of it is limited

But what I do know. Is according to history that at one time Explorers were nominated into OA, I do not know if they were all the Outdoor/ High Adventure type and even after females were allowed in Exploring. They were only the Male Explorers with the right amount of Camping time and that was even after their advancement program was taken away. (This according to BSA History) were still nominated and elected to OA. There were post elections , however in the early 1990's this was done away with and Exploring was no longer allowed to have OA elections at the post level and OA said that Explorers were not outdoorsy enough. I find that funny since that 85% percent of all Exploring was Outdoor/High Adventure and some still connected to troops in some way or another. Since the question is arised that OA allowing Venturers to come into it I have a few mmore questions and this in the spirit of fairness? Will female Venturers and female Venturing adult leaders be nominated in the OA irregardless the cluster or specialty that their crew is in, as long as they have the Outdoor Bronze see a Venturer of any cluster can have the Outdoor Bronze, the Sea Scout Bronze, Arts and Hobbies Bronze, Religious Life Bronze or any of these, and also have the Ranger. Yes male and female Venturers with or without previous scout experience in a crew or a ship can have this and the experience more than many first class scouts.These same Venturers may even be teaching first class Boy Scouts about camping and helping them get their 15 camp outs in the first place and that Venturer doing this might be a young woman in the program. Please remember gentlemen that Venturing is the young adult division of the BSA. Thanks Dana

Let's create a seperate Venturing Commissioner Program, and let this commissioner program deal only with ships and crews, reason for this is the Venturing program because of it's co-educational nature encounters problems that other parts of scouting may not encounter. Also because of it's own diversity of programs and the uniqueness of Venturing in the 5 clusters and many specialties the commissioners could diversify their outreach. Now crews and ships would still retain their own programmming and youth leadership. The commissioners could work in areas special to Venturing and still be able to help their units succeed, and be able to focus on their units and that be all .

Mantuawarrior, Thank you for your encouragement #1 I was a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol in the late 1960's also a Senior Member in the

CAP in the late 90's, #2 I do have an old Air Explorer Manual from the 1950's.In that manual there is a very good picture of what Air Exploring was. I am a Unit Commissioner for an Outdoor Venturing Crew and I used a part of that manual for a Silver Banquet for the crew. The youth used a part of it. The crew associate advisor borrowed the manual for a while and liked it. I believe youth would like to do that program. It is right up their alley, especially if they are kind of knowledgeable about the Classic Exploring Program the 1950's and early 1960's kind. Oh by the way the CAP squadron that I was a senior member in I was also the crew advisor for and the

program did not do very well with the CAP cadets they had a disdain for anything related to scouting, we tried to bring it in. The squadron was also a crew 1008 and did not go very far. So I look at the Air Exploring Manual and see that program could go. But to contemporize it into the 21st Century Venturing Division I would look at the Sea Scout program and go from there. It would do well Co-ed and with Distinctive Dress Identity. The old style of uniforming could be used with a little imagination and innovation, but the uniform if any is the choice of the crew. Again thanks Mantuawarrior , oh by the way how's the weather in the Pacific area

WhatI am basically referring to is a continuation of the 1950's

Air Scout or Air Exploring program just in a 21st century format the youth leadership would be elected, in Civil Air Patrol the Crew has to operate within the CAP squadron schedule, and it does not get top bill, I would like to seperate it from that. Also since CAP is a USAF

auxiliary it has a military leadership. In military leadership democratic process is not very much at the top of their priorities. . I would like to take the old program and bring it up to speed within today's Venturing Program. Still to retain the traditions but bring in the Venturing youth leadership program, but still use the Air Scout Squadron structure and the

Air Scout Squadron format and have the squadron crews, be seperate flights in the squadron with flight leaders elected as patrol leaders are elected in a troop format, the squadrons could be male, female, or co-ed and the squadron president, also could be a senior squadron leader.and so forth.This is not to change or compete with LFL/Exploring's Aviation Explorer Program or any post in it.

Dale

Thanks for the Information

How could a Venturing Outdoor Seminar be presented? Could it be

competitive or educational, or be demonstrations by crews? Also is there any crews or ships up for Venturing Leadership Conferences, and has anyone heard if National is going to return to that kind of Activity? Please give me your input on these subjects.

Since BSA has increased its Emergency Preparedness awareness and since in the Venturing Program that the requirements for Ranger Award have Emergency Preparedness wouldn't it be a good time to restart the Ready Crew Program formerly known as an Explorer Ready Post Program. To raise crews and ships that could respond to emergencies and give them that "DO A GOOD TURN DAILY" spirit again.

Could a Venturing camp be set up similar to a Boy Scout Summer Camp, with the exception it is Venturing and all the various specialties could do displays, and there could be an Outdoor Seminar

about mid-week, and Scouts that are in Venture Patrols in troops could be invited for a day of the camp to see if they like Venturing.This camp would have it's own Camp Service Crew and the activities would be different.

Has anyone heard of the National Outdoor Venturing Committee? If so, can anyone give me further information about it ?

has anyone seen venturers in uniform, wearing any kind of neckerchef? Is it allowed?

I was wondering where the VENTURING BSA patch go on the uniform ? Is it on the right sleeve under the flag? Or is it on the left pocket? And where would it go on the Red Jac Shirt?