dana_renner

Yak Herder I believe that the Blue Division Sea Scouting program is the strongest. But can a ship incorporate a Maritime Career Interest into their ship program? Such as a career interest in Maritime Weather, or Merchant Marine still by all intents and purposes be a blue division ship with uniforming and advancement, Or can a ship use A US Maritime Service Uniform adaptable for use by the BSA of course earn the Safe Boating and Advanced Seamanship Course and use Sea Scout Manual and Naval Science curriculum? Something like a NROTC Ship.

Traditional Sea Scouting navy-uniforms, seamanship and making advancements to quartermaster, What about a Red Division ship or a ship that is Sea Scouting but can it be interested in Nautical or Maritime Careers and still be considered Sea Scouting or what? this ship could the youth still earn from Apprentice to Quartermaster could they incorporate a Maritime Cadet style program similar to a Merchant Marine Midshipman program in with the Sea Scout Program. Or a Merchant Mariner program as well. Do Sea Scouts really have to earn advancement at all can they do an alternative advancement system that is mentioned in the manual under Sea Scouting Safe Boating and Advanced Seamanship Training Courses. And couldn't this be with ships that are in the Red and White Divisions, in other words Sea Scouts that are not quite in the Traditional Program.

from the Venturing Handbook " A uniform if any is the choice of the crew" crew can also mean ship, or in the case of an Air Scout Squadron the squadron. Could Air Force Blue uniforms be worn by Air Scouting Venturers, what legal ramifications would they have to encounter even if they could obtain the uniforms? What other choices can they make, or do they have to wear a uniform at all. What are the pros and cons of uniform wear vs DDI such as t shirt, jacket, or even a neckerchef with a sweatshirt.

In the camps that I refer to, Is where Co-ed crews and ships would be welcome as well as crews that are all male or all female. Also these camps could do COPE, Ecology, do requirements for the Outdoor Bronze Award, if close enough to a large body of water, sail, and where Sea Scouts could work on the Sea Scout Bronze Award. The week could conclude with an awards ceremony, and a large social event to really conclude the week. Has any crew or ship been to John Swift Base in Missouri? I need all the information I can get.

What I am saying is where two or more councils get together and staff a Venturing Camp, inviting the crews from each of the councils and carrying out the proposed program. Is there any council that any advisor, or Venturer knows of where that is being done, and if they could give us a brief rundown of what that camp did. What staffing did it have, youth to adult ratio. etc.

Is there enough interest in the scouters that use these forums for anyone to go to their council and suggest a council or multi-council Venturing camps. Maybe somewhat similar to a BSA summer camp. I have been suggesting this for a while to scouters in our district and council and it is suggested in some Venturing literature. How would this be done?

Outdoor Thinker, Congratulations to you. Good Job.

Is it time for Venturing to have a Honor Society? And How could one be formed? Would using ideas from Alpha Phi Omega, the National Service Fraternity. Any ideas?

well lets all chase the dog's tail once more, heh Bob, lets all forget the scout oath, scout law, venturing code and oath, the pledge to the flag, forget all the good parts of the Boy Scouts of America because they are a little traditional, let's all modernize the BSA once more time, so if we remember history and tradition, let's not tell the youth they don't care about it anyway. This organization and it's divisions have a proud history and tradition, yes there has many changes over the years but a lot of troops, crews, packs and ships, have a good tradition but let's sacrifice it on the altar of today, no remembrance, if you are under 21 years

of age, no history, no tradition, let's spoon feed you today's new modern and improved tradition, with it's compromises.

On Air Scouting, What kind of uniform would you suggest to your Air Scouts? And do you have a crew or squadron up and operating?

About the double postings I have informed the Scouter network, I don't think there is anything they can do about it. I do only click once on the "submit your message" button . If anyone has any ideas please let me know I don't like it any more than you do

Learning For Life /Exploring does not have high adventure posts , these are the province of the Outdoor Venturing Cluster there is a High Adventure specialty for crews that specialize in that kind of activity, Learning for Life has Career Interest Explorer posts, Religious Life Crews are a part of the Relgious Life Cluster for Venturing and are not a part of the Learning for Life/Exploring program. Bob if you can get a hold of what a career interst survey for Exploring administered by Learning for Life to public schools, you will see all the clusters and specialties used by Exploring and on the bottom of that same form you will see hobby and avocational interests that can be used by Venturing. A copy of this form is available from Learning For Life Executive in your council. Or it is also in the "Here's Venturing, A Guide to Implementing Venturing in a

District and Council "published 2000 BSA , 2001 printing on pages 6,7 in the Membership section. Hobby and Recreational interest is what Venturing BSA uses on that same form. Exploring posts then use that survey for contacting students to invite them to their meetings and Ventuirng crews do the same.

Bob Now in the 1940's and 1950's, 1960's in Exploring clusters did not exist, please understand, in the late 1950's specialty posts the first one was created in California and it was a Science Post and William Spurgeon a businessman on was on the National Exploring Committee was instrumental in advocating the creation of these posts and in 1959 Specialty Exploring officially became part of the National Exploring Program of the BSA. Did clusters come on the scene in the 1980's because Exploring had grown and career interest Exploring was thought to be more of what Exploring was, and Outdoor

Interest Exploring took a back seat then? Or Outdoor Exploring was still more popular and the public got a misconception of what Exploring was all about. But the cluster and specialty idea is still with us in Venturing even after 1998 just we only have 5 clusters and these specialty crews are in a cluster that is similar to their interests a larger group so to say.

Bob I have been looking more into the present day programs but I do see a lot of the old in with a lot of the new. What I say on this forum has been a lot of what I have said to other Venturing adult leaders, not so much to the youth. I will be honest I do use a lot of the new and a lot of the old in my advise to advisors but I try to stay within the Venturing program of today. A lot of what was done then is still what we are doing now. I go by BSA's book all the way as far as commissioner service, I like the history of Venturing and Exploring. A crew or ship can do what it wants to do as long as it is within BSA's parameters. It is not my purpose to confuse anyone including myself. I will admit I will think outside of the box if I need to. I also can follow the beaten path if I need to in my advice to crews. I noticed in Venturing there is a lot of leave way. My posts on here are for discussion and idea exchange not to confuse people and If I have confused you it was not my intention. Just honest and frank discussion and idea exchange.

Venturing Handbook " The BSA green Venturing shirt is available for wear by Venturers and adult leaders. The green Venturing short-sleeve shirt with green shoulder loops will be worn with charcoal gray shorts or long pants as the recommended field uniform for Venturers. MALE AND FEMALE VENTURERS SHOULD NOT WEAR THE BSA TAN SHIRT WITH GREEN SHOULDER LOOPS. Existing insignia placement policies related to BSA uniforms shall apply to the green Venturing shirt. Crews choosing to wear a patch related to their specialty may do so on the right shoulder sleeve. District,division, council, and national adult leaders related to Venturing may wear the green Venturing shirt. Sea Scouts may choose to wear nautical-style uniforms using Sea Scouting insignia available from the BSA Supply Division. A uniform if any is the choice of the crew. Is this officially unofficial. What if a crew just chooses to wear the Venturing green shirt with jeans is that allowed?

First of all there were no clusters, or specialties, in 1940 programs, specialty Exploring originated with William Spurgeon and it was on his advice that BSA started with Specialty Exploring in the 1950's and 1960's and this was in Orange County California and I believe it was a Science Post and according to a document I have entitled "Specialty Exploring An Orange County Invention this was in 1956 by 1957 he organized Post 201 in Newport Beach California

A Science Post sponsored by Helipot Division of Beckman Industries later Hughes Aircraft. This experiment was a success, and nine of the members of this post went on to earn doctorates in science. Spurgeon was a member of National Exploring Committee. On January 1

1959 Specialty Exploring became the official national program. According to this in which I am writing about seems to have effected the Exploring Program for many years to come. It also effected what we call the more traditional program style posts as well Sea Exploring,High Adventure, Athletics (Sports)and Air Exploring was also effected. Again this does not go back to the 1940's but in the 1950's I noticed in the Air Explorer Manual from 1953 that Vocational is a part of that program as well. Maybe something that Spurgeon saw that he thought needed to be in addition to High Adventure, Sports, Sea Exploring Parts of Exploring. And this is in both Venturing and LFL/Exploring even to this day.

I sincerly believe the more you know about an organization is good, Venturing has a brilliant and proud history and has a lot to be proud of. I am very proud to be a part this part of scouting. And if all these so called critics would look into Today's Venturing program they will find many things that were in the past Venturing's

recognition system was from the Bronze, Gold and Silver of the Explorer Program in the 1950's in fact it is mentioned in the Air Exploring Manual of 1953 published by the BSA the Silver medal that is today's venturing program looks very much like the Silver Medal of the 1950's. Now I will say the requirements for these are different as noted in the Venturing Handbook published in 1999 and Revised in 2003.But even Venturing returning to the Bronze, Gold and

Silver is somewhat of a step back. The Ranger award goes back to a previous Ranger award from a passt Explorer program, and all this is in the present day Venturing Program. Where a Boy Scout from a troop and go from First Class-Eagle is a carryover from pre-98 Exploring.

Sea Scouting is still very traditional and did not change that much in rank and uniforming, nautical program still pretty much the same.

Again this is present day Sea Scouting,and they still do regattas, sail, earn the Quartermaster et. There is still High Adventure a whole chapter devoted to it in the Venturing Leader Manual, Whole lot of tradition, and we are supposed to forget the history and traditional side of Ventuing and the Exploring program prior to 1998 that gave it to us. I do not think so. Maybe we can't live on history and need to concentrate on the here and now, Well the here and now in Venturing is what came from before. Youth may not care too much about what was, but a lot of what we do is what we have been doing in Venturing and previous Exploring as far as the outdoor, sea scouting, arts and hobbies, sports, and religious life

parts are concerned. It is now Venturing.

Bob what I mean to say is this prior to 1998 Exploring was considered a part of traditional scouting. From 1998-present LFL/Exploring is a part of the Learning for Life Program and is not subject to BSA membership rules. From 1998 - present Venturing is a part of the traditional BSA program and is subject to BSA membership rules, Venturing has the traditional Outdoors, Arts and Hobbies, Religious Life, Sea Scouts, Sports clusters in it, Prior to 1998 these were a part of Exploring BSA, but in 1998 they were put in Venturing. LFL/Exploring on the other hand took the other clusters that were the vocational side of the pre-98 program and Career Awareness Exploring and included them in the Exploring worksite programs. Now is this right? Oh by the way I do go by the program that exists today, And I have a great deal of fun with my position in scouting, I am just a history buff and find that the history of Exploring and Sea Scouts and etc is interesting, And I have noticed that there is a lot of the old in with the new.

Bob according to the BSA Prior ro 1998 and the creation of Venturing and the transfer of Career and Vocational Exploring to Learning for Life. Exploring BSA was considered to be in traditional scouting, from 1998 -present Venturing is in traditional scouting, and Exploring is in Learning for Life. Traditional I believe in the sense of the word means that Exploring BSA pre-98 went by the Explorer Code and followed the BSA membership standards at that time.

Now Venturing BSA follows the Venturing Code and Oath and goes by the BSA membership standards for the present. Exploring is under Learning for Life and goes by LFL standards and the Exploring Motto.

Even people who are interested in the history of Venturing care about making the present day program work. But a really prudent leader would want to learn from past mistakes and not do them again. It is not all about intelligence, it's just about leading smart.

It is not so much of if the youth that are in crew know anything about the History of Venturing, Exploring, Explorer Scouts or what have you. But the real thing is that they have fun. What I am getting at is this. That if you know where and what it is about, then you have a general knowledge of what it is that you are involved in. Get general knowledge I am not saying that a Venturer has to have enough knowledge to write a Doctorate for University of Scouting.

I agree that some Venturers probably do not really care about the History of Venturing and the History of Explorers, or Exploring or even the history of the BSA for that matter. Well that is a matter of choice. Some people would do what other people tell them to do and not know the reason why. Now I know that youth live in the here and now, always have and always will. But to understand the history of an organization gets to why it is and where it is going and where do I fit into that process. Do I agree with what they did then, and are they doing it now and do I agree, and where they are going , do I really want to go there. But again I know that most people don't ask themselves those questions in the here and now. such a pity.We are part of a fun and educational program, and its a shame no one cares where we came from and where we are going. The Venturing literature provides much information, maybe program guides are not needed, but it would make leaders lives a lot easier.

SZelenskei

Go ahead and organize a squadron in the area you mention, do this as seperate unit and carry out the plans, and try it, National might be slow on getting back to you, But get the DE's opinion share your plans with him/her and have them help you along the way. Ask to have a Unit Commissioner that is familiar with Venturing help you. Go to

District Committee meetings and have them help you and give them a report on your squadron. Invite them to advancement ceremonies and invite other Venturing crews and Sea Scout Ships, Boy Scout Troops, instill pride in your officers and make it fun and interesting, then off you go into the wild blue yonder. Good Luck and go for it.

Traditional Exploring is the Program prior to 1998 by BSA definition

Venturing is now considered a part of the traditional scout program defined by BSA 1998-present time.

Oh by the way we do not have to tell Venturers the activities that we do are old, new or whatever, I believe fun is the idea, my rantings are of someone who sees that some of each can work.