CharityAK

Our troop will sometimes work towards a merit badge together - related to an activity. For instance, they spent a weekend canoeing and met most of the requirements for the canoeing badge. They then rented out the local pool a few weeks later and wrapped up the rest of the requirements.

One of our fundraisers involves helping a local farmer who then gives the boys a percentage of his Farmer Market sales. Many have earned their gardening badge in the process of helping this farmer.

But...the troop discourages using regular meeting time to earn merit badges in a classroom like setting.

I am the Advancement Chair and a merit badge counselor for quite a few of the science-based badges (I had a business writing, developing and selling science curriculum to home educators). Just to use my time efficiently, I am offering an Astronomy merit badge class to any of our boys interested. We will meet on a different night than troop night for 4 nights in a row (at my home) followed by a field trip to a local telescope sight.

Charity(This message has been edited by CharityAK)

My son joined scouting at age 14. He's just turned 16 and will most likely make Life in November. He says he was the only 6 foot Tenderfoot his first year of scout camp. He took a lot of ribbing for it, but the boys shut up after he passed them by. His second year of scout camp he was a Star scout and on camp staff as the cinematographer. He has several other extracurricular involvements as well - including well on his way towards a black belt. It's difficult for him to manage them all, but there is always time to do what is truly important to you. I see no reason why middle/highschool age boys can't remain a recruiting target.

Charity

I was thinking just a one-time thing to get the library off the ground. Yes, this bookstore has an awesome collection of books appropriate to scouting. This is Alaska afterall...the ultimate outdoors playground. After I posted, I read somewhere that there is a policy that an individual must receive something in exchange for their gift to the troop - that a scout is not allowed to ask for a donation. So...I imagine the door to door book donation drive wouldn't work? But is it acceptable to solicit donations (discarded books) within troop families and the charter organization?

Charity

By checking books...I simply meant transferring data from the handbooks to the record system (Troopmaster) so I could keep the records up to date and have a heads up for encroaching need for BORs. I do not sign off on the boys' books.

Our troop is still evolving...we have no one filling positions such as scribe, librarian, guide, chaplain's aide, quartermaster yet. I believe that is one thing the new SM hopes to address.

Charity

That's why I really had hoped to address the issue without having to get into my own personal opinions about women in leadership. It is just that...my own opinion and not meant as a criticism of any woman who feels called to contribute in public leadership. My opinion stems from my spiritual belief system and it is not a statement of right and wrong for others. I am deeply grieved if I offended any woman here. It was not my intent. I figured I'd probably get asked my reasons for being uncomfortable in uniform and I knew my reason had potential to be controversial. I am not criticizing other women. I'm just personally uncomfortable myself with representing myself as an authority figure/public leader over men. I don't want to have to get into that or defend it.

As I've stated I'm willing to wear the uniform if SM desires it (I don't know yet what his preferences are). I just want to be able to remain in a support role and out of public eye as much as possible.

Charity

One of my recent projects as a Committee Member (Advancement Chair) is to develop a troop library - which so far has consisted of some binders of adult leader training materials and a couple dozen MB pamphlets. I've bought some books and donated them. General reference stuff on knot-tying, outdoor cooking, wilderness survival, etc. But while at Amazon.com making a wish list of items for the scouting library I got this idea and wondered what you thought.

We have an outstanding used bookstore in our area that makes really fair deals on book trades. I was thinking about having all our troop families cull their home libraries for books they no longer want or are willing to donate as in-store trade with this bookstore. With the store credit, we could then purchase books for the scout library. I would have the troop librarian (none yet, I've asked that one be appointed) assist me - help me collect and haul books, select the new ones, etc. I was thinking the store might even be willing to give us a better-than-usual trade deal to support scouting.

We could even broaden the book drive to include the Catholic church which charters our troop. Or would it be acceptable to have the boys canvass a neighborhood asking for book donations - kind of like a food or bottle drive?

What do you think?

Charity

(This message has been edited by CharityAK)

Thanks to everyone for the input. Answering some of your questions/concerns.

Our troop has been a somewhat casual troop by a leader who was fantastic in his personal relationship with the boys, but didn't adhere religiously to policy. Not even all the leaders were always big on uniforms themselves until we gained an ASM who was more of a by-the-book guy (now the new SM) and who began to enforce a uniform rule. So the boys have thought absolutely nothing of me not being in uniform to date. It has not been an issue of a negative example. No adults have ever shown up at BOR or COH in uniform aside from the SM/ASM. Though it may be that the new SM will want to change that and if he does, of course, I'll support him in that.

I am Treasurer AND Advancement Officer because at the time our family joined the troop there was little parental help at all other than the wonderful Committee Chair who was doing everything all by herself. I took those two positions and believe me...the poor woman was still overbooked. I hate doing bookwork and have been lucky enough to find a parent among some new recruits willing to take over the Treasurer position for me. Just have to get them on as a check signer and get their adult leadership paperwork into the council office. My heart is really in advancement. This new SM is really gung ho and with a great new group of boys/parents at the crossover this troop is starting to shape up in terms of more closely following policy and greater parental involvement.

The Committee Chair has never worn a uniform - though if the new SM wants us to, I imagine she would - as would I.

As far as not valuing my contribution to the troop. I don't think my contribution can be measured by whether or not I wear a uniform. I am not being dismissive of what I bring to the troop. I KNOW how much value I have brought to this troop. The Committee Chair has constantly told me what a godsend I have been and the SM has similarly expressed his appreciation. I have developed a BOR guide, a COH checklist, an Advancement Guide for Parents, set up Troopmaster software, constantly scour thrift stores for uniforms and equipment, am working on developing the library and have various other projects in the works that I hope will improve troop quality. Since I became AO, the troop has had its two first Eagles. My "hang-up" if you want to call it one, is that I am an old-fashioned believer in traditional gender roles. I prefer male leadership and am personally reluctant to take on the leadership designation that for me conveys a position of authority.

HOWEVER...since the whole reason I'm volunteering is because I desire to be helpful and supportive to the leadership, I will willingly and cheerfully wear a uniform if the new SM wants things to go that direction. No problem. Thanks for your insight, experience and input. I have appreciated it very much. It seems the general consensus is that ALL adult leaders and committee members should wear uniforms. This is unusual for our area, but I will do whatever the new SM wishes. He hasn't specified that and I'll just flat out ask him what his intentions are.

Charity

I really hoped not to get too deeply into the whys as I don't want to offend anyone. I am not comfortable with BSA female adult leadership in public leadership or regular, direct involvement with the boys. I don't have a problem with the supportive, behind-the-scene roles. I feel that one of the historical strengths of BSA has been its strong male presence in boys lives - though I know in today's current PC climate this is heresy.

Only the SM and the ASM in our troop have worn uniforms in the past. I feel uncomfortable "posing" as one of them. I'd prefer to remain "just a Mom helping out". However...if the SM wants to change this and start having all Committee members and leadership positions start wearing uniforms, I will comply with his wishes. I just wondered what the norm was and if my desire to remain "anonymous" was appropriate.

I have no problem with the uniform in and of itself. I'm proud of the BSA program and have no qualms with being associated with it. I don't think it's really an issue of role-modeling for hte boys as no one besides the SM/ASM wear uniforms. If anything, they will think it odds and perhaps even intrusive if I start to wear them. Like I'm a SM wanna-be.

Charity

Hello All

I am Advancement Officer and Treasurer for our troop. I like to help behind the scenes, doing paperwork, errands and other things that could absorb the SM, ASM's time so that they can concentrate on the "face time" with the boys. I'm not comfortable being directly involved with the boys during meetings and/or taking a public role. I prefer to let the guys lead so that the boys have that male role model thing going on. Our committee chair is a woman and I notice she prefers the same non-public supportive role.

Since I don't consider myself "technically" a "leader", must I wear a unifom. We are currently going through a SM change and the new SM gave me a woman's scout blouse and seemed very pleased to have procured one for me. I didn't have the heart to tell him I preferred to remain in the more anonymous street clothes. I'm not sure when he had in mind for me to wear a uniform. I only show up at scout meetings for about the first 20 minutes to check books, sign paperwork, or check the library which I'm trying to build up. Since I have karate class just 30 minutes after the scout meeting starts I'm usually in my karate gi because I have to dart so quickly to class.

Do you think I should be wearing a scout uniform during my casual, brief appearance at meetings? I'm only there to do paperwork stuff off in teh corner somehwere and don't really interact with the boys unless I'm checking their books for advancement updates. Should I wear a uniform at the COHs? I usually wear street clothes. Should I wear a uniform at BORs?

I want to keep my supportive, low-key, behind the scenes role, but this new SM is a by-the-book kind of guy. He is excellent and I am thrilled to have him. Want to do the right thing. But what is the right thing here?

Charity

This was an interesting thread to read through. Obesity in children is a real issue. What to do about overweight scouts gets tricky. There's the hypocrisy issue when leaders w/a gut get on an overweight scout's case. Then there are the parents who will squeal that you're hurting their child's self-esteem. Then there's the "fat people's" lobby which is getting more vocal and powerful every day. It's just not acceptable in today's politically correct climate to address the issue of obesity.

I'm able to pretty well control this issue for my kids because we homeschool and I control their food intake. I also get to design our PE program. The boys are required to run 2 miles a day (I run with them) within 26 minutes. Five times a week minimum. This is through a hilly neighborhood. We also do martial arts 3x a week, regular and advanced class for a total of about 7 hours a week (which my scout cannot count towards his sport badge, fitness requirements or fitness award) And he's taking swim courses 3x a week working towards his lifeguard certification. Even with this my eldest son struggles with weight (carrying about 10 extra #s at 6'1").

I'm not sure how kids who eat mass-produced cafeteria food and only get PE 2x a week - much of that time consumed by crowd control - manage to stay in shape and control their weight.

Charity

I'm going to be building up our troop's library which right now consists of one cardboard box full of odds and ends. I've bought a gorgeous book on knot-tying and have ordered the NOLS Cookery book, the NOLS Wilderness Handbook and Survival Handbook by Peter Darman.

What are your favorite merit badge/scouting skills resource books? What titles would you recommend? And how do you run your library? Do boys only use the books on the premise or can they check out and take home? What type of a check-out system do you use? Any tips?

Charity

I'm assuming you've already tried to reason with him privately about it...

If he isn't being responsive, then I'd suggest treating him just as you would any other scout. Do you have a policy that spells out expectations for scout behavior during meetings? If so, what are the consequences for disruptive behavior as spelled out in your discipline policy? I'd be consistent with any scout needing correction. It sounds as if your brother is not the only one who is pushing the limits.

Charity

I'm assuming you've already tried to reason with him privately about it...

If he isn't being responsive, then I'd suggest treating him just as you would any other scout. Do you have a policy that spells out expectations for scout behavior during meetings? If so, what are the consequences for disruptive behavior as spelled out in your discipline policy? I'd be consistent with any scout needing correction. It sounds as if your brother is not the only one who is pushing the limits.

Charity

We do our COHs in pretty much the same manner as FOG. In addition, we have a potluck dinner afterwards. There is usually some sort of gift of appreciation given to some volunteer who gave more than usual during the last quarter. Parents seem to enjoy the chance to chat and get to know one another better over dinner.

Charity

Perhaps I'm not understanding pack's question... Le me rephrase what I thought she was saying. Perhaps I misunderstood?

Pack is frustrated with parents who have their kids in so many different activities that they (the kids? the parents? both?) are unable to give the necessary time to Scouting. Pack thinks the parents have misplaced priorities in that they are willing to be involved in sports, but not scouting. Pack wants to know how to get parents to value scouting more than they currently do.

Is that correct? If I misunderstood, please correct me.

If I understood correctly, then what I was trying to say is that I wouldn't try to change the parent's mind - even if I thought they were making a stupid decision. And the reason is because I believe that is their call to make and I wouldn't see it as my place to try to influence the parent around to my way of thinking. If the parent thinks soccer is more important than scouting, I would support the parent's decision - even though I happen to think soccer is a waste of time.

Not sure that parents with misplaced values (producing a SuperChild is more important than the type of ideals, values and principles instilled by scouting) would be that valuable an addition anyway... I think I'd move on. In recruiting I'd continue to emphasize scouting values and the character development that occurs (see my post When It Works for a testimonial to the value of scouting) and trust that that message would attract the type of parents you're hoping for. They're out there. It's just that you get about 10 Soccer-Moms-Involvement-Flavor-Of-The-Month types for every 1 really great old-fashioned salt of the earth parent. *g*

Charity

I totally understand your frustration. Our troop does not have as much parental support as I think it should have either. And I observe fairly frequently what I consider to be bad parental choices.

However...I am a total believer in parental authority. Unless the parent is being abusive, they have the right to make the parenting calls in their child's life - even if I think their decision and reasoning behind it is lame.

My husband and I are totally dedicated to our children's welfare. We carefully think through each decision we make on their behalf. We know our child better than anyone else does. We know their strengths and their weaknesses. We have a better idea than anyone else what their future most likely holds for them. Therefore we are best equipped to make the calls as to how they use their time now to prepare for their future. Therefore...if someone else gave me a hassle about the decisions we made for our child, they would most likely be told what they could do with their decision - nicely, of course.

So...I can relate to your frustration. I've had the same. I see parents making decisions that I think are totally stupid. However...I would never say anything to them because I believe THEY are better qualified than I to make that decision and they are the ones who have been given the authority and responsibility to make that decision. If it was I, I'd keep my disappointment to myself and look elsewhere to build the troop.

Charity

Advancement Officer/Treasurer/Scout Parent

I have been looking for "We Missed You" type postcards that we could pre-stamp and drop in the mail to each absentee scout after 2 consecutive absences. I've looked through the scoutingstuff website. Anyone seen anything like this? I used to get them from my Sunday School teacher as a girl.

Charity

Advancement Chair/Treasurer/Committee Member

We had BORs last night and I am still experiencing warm fuzzies this morning. I was so pleased with the boys' progress.

I wanted to share about our newest Life scout. This was the 3rd BOR I've sat on for this young man. He almost didn't pass the first review. He couldn't make eye contact, mumbled, sat stone silent while we tried desperately to get him to warm up.

I was so impressed with him last night it almost moved me to tears. He came in with confidence, looked us straight in the eye, shook hands and expressed his appreciation for us being there. He made eye contact, talked confidently and with great eloquence, and answered all the questions in depth and with great sincerity.

He told us that when he first started scouting he could barely even speak to the other scouts. He told of his appreciation for the SM who had pushed him out of his comfort zone and expressed his confidence in the boy's ability to be a good leader. He talked very movingly about his growth as a person and how scouting had helped him become stronger.

I was blown away by his discussion of what it means to be part of a community and how important service was to him. He talked at length about the scouting law and ideals and how difficult they were to live out with integrity, but that he was striving to do so and spent time every day reflecting on the areas where he needed to grow.

And he was entirely sincere. I know this young man well as he is one of my son's best friends and is often in our home. I can tell you he is an entirely different person than the boy I met at that first BOR. When he stepped out so the team could discuss his review, the other members just looked at me and went "WOW!" I whole-heartedly concurred. WOW, indeed.

A true transformation from fearful, painfully shy, awkward little boy to a confident, intelligent young man brimming with character and integrity. I was proud to be part of BSA and filled with hope for our community should this young man be an example of its future leaders.

Just wanted to encourage you all. It works.

Charity(This message has been edited by CharityAK)

My #1 job is being wife to my wonderful husband of 23 years and mother of two great red-headed boys (ages 12 and 16). In addition to that, I am a home educator. I have homeschooled my children from the beginning and we will forge ahead until done. Thus, I am unable to hold a "regular" 9-5 job. Homeschooling IS my full-time job. The pay is lousy, but the rewards are innumerable.

I had a home business developing curriculum (primarily science) for homeschoolers, but as the business grew it demanded too much of my time and I have set it aside until the boys finish their education. I have worked off and on since college as a free-lance writer, primarily selling to religious publications, professional journals for ministers, family-oriented magazines, home education magazines, etc. For awhile my DH and I wrote a column together (on family issues) for an independently published magazine.

I also do a great deal of volunteer work. I am the Advancement Officer and Treasurer for our local troop. I am one of our church's pianists and vocalists. I do charity sewing for a variety of agencies and individuals. I do occasional work for a children's center here in town that provides services for sexually abused children.

This has been a fascinating thread. I had expected to see a predominance of "social" professions such as teaching, social work, public relations, legal, etc. I was surprised that the technical industries were so well-represented. Finance and business as well.

Charity

Packsaddle - you recommended 4 older boys with good leadership skills...This is what we've got to work with as far as leadership skills. The rest of the troop is comprised of recent crossovers - young inexperienced boys, but highly motivated. By the time they "come of age" they are going to be fantastic scouts! We have very little of the middle ages.

We have 5 boys ages 14-16.

Boy #1 is a screw-off (kicked out of previous troop, vandalism problems, rigging scout elections, etc.) but very charming, good social skills, charisma, a likeable kid-on-the-edge. Former SM (just resigned)was patient with him and held the line against kicking him out of the troop for infractions. Well-intentioned and wanted to help turn him around. SM-most-likely-to-be-next (we're currently in transition) will not be nearly as tolerant. Current ASPL

Boy #2 is a passive person, sweet, good character but no personal initiative, a follower. Weak in leadership skills, but a nice kid. Current SPL.

Boy #3 is a brilliant boy with amazing ideas, but also passive and a procratinator. Reluctant leader, but does a good job when pushed. Great parents (Mom is Committee Chair, salt-of-the-earth people). So brilliant he's always off in his head somewhere and you have to keep pulling him back to reality. A dreamer, philosopher, poet type.

Boy #4 (my son) is outgoing, good leadership skills, a summer camp staffer, a hard worker, faithful, responsible, but tends to be domineering, occasionally critical and can be impatient and verbally unkind with those he doesn't think are performing as they should. A Patton-type. We called him the Dictator in Diapers at 2yo. A Westpoint wannabe who needs to work on his communication skills (must get it from his Dad...*G*). Current PL of older boys.

Boy #5 (SM-to-be's son) is alot like my son. Outgoing. A good leader. Responsible. Has little brothers and is good with the younger boys. Very experienced scout with additional training and good scouting skills. Summer camp staffer. Tends to be loud and brash. Like my son, could afford to be more gracious in his interpersonal skills. But a solid kid who delivers the goods.

Okay...that's what we've got. How do we build this troop up? I think we need more kids - especially because I've heard some parental rumblings of discontent and wonder if we might not lose some during this transition period?

Charity

I am a committee member, scout parent, treasurer and advancement officer of a troop in our small town. Population 5,000 and outlying areas brings total population to about 20,000. Our troop has an enrollment of about 20 scouts with only about 12 in regular attendance, another 5 showing up from time to time and 3 who don't really show up but who want to be kept on the rolls (parents hopeful that a disinterested scout will come around).

Of the 12 active, involved scouts, 6 are siblings which means that there are actually only a handful of parents from that pool who are willing to help.

Ideally, how many scouts do you think a troop needs in order for the patrol method to work adequately, to have enough parental support and to have enough boys to split the work and leadership load? Sometimes I feel we are wearing the few willing parents and boys out. And sometimes I feel the quality of boy leadership is not what it should be just because we have to work with what we have rather than having more options.

What do you think is a good size to aim for considering the population of our locale? There are quite a few other troops in our area as well. And how do you up the enrollment in your troop? What types of recruiting work for you?

Charity

Did he give his reasons? I can think of some that might give instant insight in the situation.

-concerns about predation (a Boy Scout in our neighborhood is currently doing 2 years in jail for molestation - it happens)

-a bedwetting issue or night terrors or something else that the father might be protecting his son from embarrassment

Charity

Irresponsibility and expecting others to do your job for you - whether it's people who look to govt. programs to provide things they should be providing for themselves/their families or parents who expect schools, daycare, churches, etc. to raise their children for them. Selfish parents who are too busy "having a life" to bother investing in their children make me absolutely crazy!

Another one...the dishing on men that the media constantly serves up. I am so sick of men being portrayed as either mindless idiots, cruel abusers, or disgusting pigs in ads, TV, movies, etc. If the media portrayed women with the same viciousness as they do men, the feminists would have a fit! As a mother of two wonderful sons and wife of 23 years to a man full of integrity and intelligence it just drives me nuts.

Climbing off of soap box....

Charity

Not a rant...appreciate the response.

I just wondered if I had missed something because I've heard other people refer to stocking badges quite often. Thought maybe our district council was the exception...

I can understanding the reasoning and do not resent it.

Charity

I thought it would be best if the boys participate, just not sure how we could do the logistics of that and still keep things a secret until presentation. I'll mull that one over....

Charity