Maboot38

Any Scoutmasters here have any problem with giving BSA credit for service hours also used toward Girl Scout's Gold award?

16 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

You really need to find a good CC. They make or break good troops.

Our new committee chair is absolutely fantastic! It’s just that she’s new to the job just like I am and we are learning pretty much from scratch.

Since moving on from a Committee Chair who did everything for everyone, we continue to learn who should do what, and how to do it. I THINK it falls to me as Scoutmaster to register for summer camp, but looking to confirm. Is it me? 

14 minutes ago, skeptic said:

And, since I no longer am able to wear mine due to girth, I guess I could just turn it into a hanger brag rag of some sort.

No worries, brother! Uniforms have a tendency to shrink all the time!

27 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Treat your jacket as a "work in progress".  Mine has enough space for a few more, as the mood and event strike me. 

Would love to see it? Maybe worth a "show us your jac shirt" thread of it's own? I mean, if we are going to make a brag jacket, we might as well brag about it, right?

On 2/18/2024 at 7:43 AM, BetterWithCheddar said:

If the BSA is going to survive, it needs to be OK being every kid's second favorite activity.

YUP!!! I always say "If you make 'em choose, you gonna lose!" 

Do your sports and come to whatever meetings and outings you can. If you want an elected position...then it's a different conversation.

Just to wrap this one up...in case anyone was keeping score....after discussions with the COR, the District Executive, and the Council Executive, this Scouter was asked to step down from any and all leadership positions in the Troop. It was painful because this person's heart was in the right place, but the decision was in the best interest of scouting. Thanks everyone for their input and guidance.

OK since my other recent posts have been so serious, I figure I might be able to necro-post on this "fun" one! 

I recently bought a BSA red jacshirt and affixed the official BSA patch on the front. I wore it to a Council Klondike Derby, and let's just say, the red shirt is making a SWIFT comeback! So many of them were there, but I was "called out" for not having enough patches! All the other guys had their shirts covered in patches. They had every camporee they've ever been to, unit insignia, council patches, OA patches,...just covered. Mine was blank.

So ok, the uniform police say just the BSA patch, maybe an OA thingy, and a Philmont or other high adventure patch....but uniform police aside, what do people think about this nowadays (I say that since this thread was started 20 years ago!). 

I'm specifically wondering if, as a scoutmaster, it would be appropriate to place previous scouter position patches like Cubmaster, 50 miler award, week long scout camp patches, Scout Show patches, and even non-scouting patches from Appalachian Mountain Club high mountain huts? I guess maybe I'm answering my own question, by saying if I'm not willing to follow BSA guidelines, then why do I care....but just looking for opinions, especially about the Cubmaster patch....or even my old rank patches (I still have them all up to Life!).

Thoughts?

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Ok, CC is the only registered position there.  The others are functionals assigned through the Organizational Manager in my.scouting.

Thanks! So my argument would not be that they CAN'T be CC and ASM, but rather, that they AREN'T CC and ASM (as I never appointed them ASM, nor are they registered as such). Semantics I guess at that point, but my guess is they won't care. We will be going the cake route.  

17 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Ok, curious... what are they registered for?

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Oh, and what position are they registered for in my.scouting.org?  (NOT Scoutbook... Scoutbook is scoutbook.scouting.org)  Your Registrar would not have assigned them to a Committee Position and an ASM position.

Your my.scouting login should be the same as your Scoutbook login credentials, unless you have used your Google to sign in.

You are correct (and they were untruthful). They are NOT registered as both in my.scouting.org.

Thanks! 

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Thank you so much, this is all such wonderful advice!

"Fill out an application for the new CC. and run it through the system."

BUT...guess who processes the applications at Council!

"You are experiencing the most painful thing about Scouting...  Adults ruin it!"

I say this all the time!! For Scouting, and little league, and basketball, and.....(insert youth program here)

Honestly, I DO think it is time for cake at this point.

 

21 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Understood.

Most likely, pointing out rules isn't going to curb their behavior.

Sounds like you'll need an intervention, of sorts.

How engaged is your Chartered Organization Representative, and do you know who your Unit Commissioner and District Executive are?

How many other like-minded volunteers/parents have you discussed this with?

Are you considering leaving the unit if things aren't resolved?

 

COR was engaged yesterday and he has asked me who I propose to replace the CC.

ALL parents and scouters agree this is a problem. I've personally spoken to at least eight. All agree this is a problem. I am unaware of any parent that does NOT agree.

It's painful. This person isn't a bad person, they're just unlike anyone I've encountered before. I'm not afraid of confrontation, but even confrontation doesn't seem to resolve it. I'm hoping the COR is able to facilitate a change, because yes, I cannot properly lead the SPLs (and therefore the troop) in these circumstances and will depart if things remain as they are. Last thing I want to do is let the kids down, so I truly pray that we can fix this. The last scoutmaster left for the same reason.

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, if this person were to limit themselves to one function, which do you think would be most value-added to the unit?

For any position you pick, I could point out a list of responsibilities, most of which are likely NOT being taken care of, or done well, at the moment in your unit.

Most volunteers I work with simply do not have the time required to dive deep into a position and do it to a level of excellence.  Many do a passable job, and that has to be good enough... A good handful don't do much at all, nor care to learn what it takes to make a Scouting unit function well.  These are the ones who need training and motivation, or need to be moved out of the position...

If they were to JUST be Committee Chair, that would be just fine. They are incapable of staying in their lane though.

Imagine an extremely dominating helicopter parent, coming into a troop and doing everything for the scouts, telling everyone where and when you will camp, straining noodles for kids, carrying gear for kids, rolling sleeping bags for kids...taking scoutmaster info packets at camporees and assuming the default leadership role, getting angry when asked to give said info to the scoutmaster, being extremely loud constantly. Babying the scouts (following them around handing out hand wipes, providing them with snacks even, and pretty much not allowing any learning to take place by allowing them to fail and learn...... Imagine all that, plus someone who is so unsafe driving that other parents refuse to allow their kids to ride with this person, someone who insists on handling all kids medication, but then screams at the top of their lungs "Kevin!!! Come get your ADHD meds!!!" with no regard for privacy. Imagine being entirely un-coachable and unchanging on any of the above behaviors.....and now imagine that person is ALSO your committee chair, advancement chair, training chair, and insists on being an assistant scoutmaster, even thought he scoutmaster never wanted them to be an ASM.

These are my challenges. So the motivation of my post was to find out if, at the very lease, I could say "actually, despite you insisting, you CANNOT be an ASM...according to BSA rules". That's what I was looking for, and it looks like we've found it on page 14. The rest...well I'm hoping the COR will be tired of quitting Scoutmasters and make the correct change here.  

On the upside....our Scouts are AWESOME, and I love working with them. They just deserve better.

On 2/10/2024 at 8:57 PM, mrjohns2 said:

No, they don't. You are mistaken. The key 3 delegate position is to delegate, software wise, key 3 access. A member of the key does not get automatically, nor needs, the key 3 delegate role. 

OK, thanks for the clarification. 

But maybe I shouldn't have mentioned scoutbook at all. The point of my inquiry was whether or not a Scouter was allowed to hold all those positions. I'm much less interested in the technical workings of Scoutbook in this context.

Probably my fault, but people are focusing too much on the actual online tools. So let me back up. 

The person BELIEVES they are and WANTS TO ACT AS Committee Chair, Assistant Scoutmaster, Advancement Chair, and Unit Training Chair. They do it ALL...and when I offer to get help and have someone else take some of the responsibility, that response is "Don't take this from me, I love it!" So we are stuck with this person BEING the Troop...and it's driving people (members and leaders) away. 

So it seems my question about whether or not the are allowed to hold all those positions is that they are NOT. At least according to a 8 year old document.

Now no idea what to DO about it. 

47 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

No, you should check who is listed in the Functional Roles under Organization Manager in my.scouting.

You, may be able to tweak those...

I guess I’m not following. In my scouting.org. The key three are all labeled as key three and when that is done, they all show up as key three delegates in scout book. I don’t believe there is any problem with the key three thing.

6 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

So, as an Assistant Scoutmaster, this person works for you (Scoutmaster), and as Scoutmaster, you answer to the Committee Chair.

You see the conundrum there?

Oh, I see lots of problems. That’s just one of them.

9 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

 

Before we go too far down the rabbit hole, may I ask what roles you have under your profile in my.scouting.org ??

Mine has this: 

Key 3 Delegate, Scoutmaster

I think Key 3 delegate just means I am a key three. Most likely it’s for communication and notification purposes. It’s redundant, not a separate role.

Hello all. We have a Scouter who is, in my opinion, FAR to involved in each and every facet of leadership in our troop. This person is a good person at heart, but with a very strong personality, very very loud, and also very unable to step back and let the kids do their thing. Just a helicopter parent who has made the entire troop THEIR show. Kind of like a Cubmaster on stimulants, but in a BSA troop! Again, good person, and helpful at times, but has already been the main reason why some people have left the troop. This scouter is so overbearing and willful, but is absolutely unable to take any suggestion and has repeatedly turned down help when offered, saying "don't take this away from me!" or "It's ok, I love doing it!". I'm a firm believer that no one adult should wield this much power, control, or influence, especially over a troop which is supposed to be run by the scouts. So.....

This post isn't necessarily about what too do about this individual, it's more about what they actually can and cannot do.

According to our Scoutbook roster, here are this person's positions (in just one troop - they also hold all the similar positions in a sister troop):

Committee Chairman, Key 3 Delegate, Assistant Scoutmaster, Unit Advancement Chair, Unit Training Chair

So the question is, is a Scouter even ALLOWED to hold all these positions at the same time? Would I be able to get someone on the committee to actually cite a regulation stating that we are in some sort of violation by having this person hold all these positions (especially when we DO have adults who would be willing to share the work)?

Again, I don't dislike this person, and don't bear them any ill will, but I'm trying so hard to get this troop to be compiant and adhere to the principles of scouting, as well as to follow the methods of scouting, and the best practices for scout leadership, and despite all the training videos this Scouter has watched, there doesn't appear to be any practical application of those learnings taking place.

22 hours ago, dk516 said:

@Maboot38 we use SB for advancement and the related functions and whatever reporting is required from SB. We use Google because it was an easy platform for all Troop planning, hosting our website from it and for all the documents and leader collaboration which made it a natural to use their email tools as well.

Makes sense!!! I've created a Troop Google account for document storage and we have an email address as well. I think the kids are going to try Discord, but I also know not all kids have phones, so the jury is still out on the best option.

35 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Let your scouts decide.  ... Trust your scouts ... and don't think you can control them.  They will communicate how they want.  Plus, their choosing how to communicate is part of their team forming and storming.  It's what we really want out of our scouts:  their solving and owning their activities.  

As unit leaders, the question is how much do we communicate to the parents.  A troop schedule with mtgs, events and activities?  Costs?  Other?  

Yes, I am 100% let him choose and he chose to create this text group. However, none of the other scouts like it or use it so I’m trying to give him more guidance and new ideas that he might be able to decide to implement.

28 minutes ago, dk516 said:

We use Google G-Suite for all of our Troop stuff. It allows you to create email groups for communication. Yes, email is a little old fashioned these days but the only form of communication you can effectively assure that adults are involved in all communication and therefore allow to be in compliance with YPT as much as possible. I accept the fact that there will always be other tools used between the Scouts (Discord, Whatsapp, Messenger, etc.) but the email groups allow for easy setup and control of what is being communicated. 

We have Scoutbook which also allows troop emails, but kids don't really check email habitually like we old folks do, I find....so for emails I think Scoutbook works well enough (as long as the troop keeps the info up to date). Did you find a deficiency in scoutbook that caused you to use google, or do you just not use Scoutbook because you never have?

2 hours ago, OaklandAndy said:

You can set up a group Discord. I used that a lot with my summer camp staff when I was a camp director. Easy to manage and supervise. Most youth know and use that app. 

I asked our SPL and he doesn't use Discord, but perhaps he'd be willing to learn it. I tasked him with figuring out a way to communicate, and he ended up setting up a text message group...which isn't working well because unless you install an app, you only see phone numbers in the messages. 

Hi Scouters!!! Our Troop currently has no effective method for the scouts to contact each other (especially Patrol leaders contacting patrol members, or SPL contacting PLs). As I try to rebuild the patrol method in our troop, I think this will be essential. What experience do you all have with what works and what doesn't work? Is it enough/ok for the scouts to text or call each other? Group texts? Apps? What are your experiences?

12 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Yes, the CO can give the unit anything they want.  They just can't raise funds in the name of Scouting or the BSA.  Scouts can participate in the CO's fundraiser, but not in uniform.  

In this case, the CO is a group that is dying out, has lost their meeting space due to it being uninhabitable by humans, which has resulted in our troop losing OUR meeting space. It's a whole other problem for me to tackle (along with rebuilding the patrol method, transitioning to a scout led program, and figuring out how to handle an integrated boy and girl troop. Add it to the list  Good thing I like a challenge!