Abel Magwitch

Why that's a chinese yellow billed bird of paradise. Very rare in the US

Beavah, you nailed it completely.

I needed to add this final edit to my above post. After Policy Prohibiting Discriminating/Harassment of students should read: It is the policy to maintain an educational environment that is free from discrimination because of an individual's sex, race, color, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or disability.

The problem I see with public schools chartering BSA units is that public schools are allowing an outside private organization that does in fact have requirements thatcan discriminate. Below are some of the restrictions that the BSA is allowed to implement as they are a private not a public organization: From http://www.bsalegal.org/litigation-222.asp The Boy Scouts have a policy on the declaration of Religious Principal to be a member of the Boy Scouts; one must declare that they believe in God: From Bylaws of Boy Scouts of America, art. IX, 1, cl. 1- [The Boy Scouts] p

I find it disappointing that the BSA has chosen an easy route by making up an alternative definition for active rather than upholding the current definition as written in the Rules and Regulations. Like I said before, I wonder if the national advancement task force even took a moment to review the BSA rules and regulations prior to publishing their new definition. I wonder if they even know about the rules and regulations. So John, now you see a change coming in the rules and regulations. Instead of national reinventing the wheel, why cant they just stick to whats already written? Q

Eagle, I have to disagree with some of your earlier points: trainings - are put on by volunteers. Usually held at various sponsoring institutions at no cost to council. Materials costs are covered by training fees. summer camp - Scouts pay good money to go to summer camp. In my council, Scouts do not get promised program for fees paid due to the ineptness of the council. camporees - and klondike derbies and other weekend events are run by volunteers. Many times these events are held off council property at local parks. There is always a participation fee which covers the event p

In 2003,the annual report of my council actually listed employee compensaton. The figure was $1,418,354. This figure far exceeded any other council expenses. The employee compensation has never again been listed on an annual report again but the program expenses have shown an increas of over a million and a half on subsequent annual reports. So the professional payroll is quietly included in the program. And that's the selling point of the fos flyer. I know that at least in my council, program is handled by the volunteers. I find it most deceptive four our council to inclu

Hi Neil - there are the charter and bylaws and the rules and regulations. They are separate. The definition for active is in the rules and regulations. Abel

The Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America define both an active member and an associate member. The definition for active as it is now written in the Advancement Policies and Procedures book is more in line with an associate member rather than an active member. So the question why did the BSA decide to re-define active in their advancement policies when there was already a definition for active written in the BSA rules and regulations? The new definition seems contrary to what is already written in the rules and regulations. I wonder if the national advancement t

By the way Oak Tree, my council is stating on the fos card that it costs $175 to support one Scout.

I received my fos card in the mail. And as usual, the pie chart that represents the allocation of funds is broken down this way. 5% of funds are allocated for administration, 9% of funds are allocated for fund raising, and a whopping 86% of funds are allocated directly to program. I am curious how council break down "program". What does program include? How do the units benefit from FOS monies being allocated to program? Any professionals or volunteers like to comment on how program funding is broken down in your councils? Abel

Beavah, I want to thank you for posting the definition for active right out of the rules and regulations. It has been a real eye opener. It makes me feel that I have wasted my time in the advancement committee. It is apparent that in scouting as far as national is concerned, anything goes. New rules are made that supersede other rules. Unfortunately, the rules and regulations are no longer available from national supply. One cannot simply walk into the scout store and purchase a copy for a buck and a half. A volunteer now has to go through council so a request can be made of the chief sco

Writing a percentage requirement into a unit's bylaws Again I quote "No council, district, UNIT, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements. What I have found to be true in many cases is that many problems in Scouting arise because others decide to ignore the written policies and procedures and choose to make up their own. If only people would follow what is already written. The writer of the current Advancement Policies and Procedures book wrote me a letter concerning this very topic Unfortunately this is the constant battle when well

Then your council and some of its adult leadership are in the wrong. As far as a Scout is concerned, he is to do the requirements, no more and no less. And as far as the Scout's adult leadership is concerned, no council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements. I would start with your district Advancement chair on this one. Abel

89camper, I agree that mistakes in judgment do happen from time to time. But this is not the case in my council. It is apparent that you must be part of a functional council. As for ANYONE chewing out another and spitting them out - that's totally unacceptable behavior for both volunteer and professional alike. Those kinds of people do not belong in Scouting at all. But you do seem to be painting volunteers with a broad brush. I have experienced some disrespectful young professionals giving hell to Scoutmasters at summer camp. Look up my summer camp woes thread sometime. Both v

Well 89camper, I can tell you that you aren't part of my council. And I can tell you that Scouting is not the same in every council. Hopefully, you belong to a thriving council where the professional leadership is doing the right things for the right reasons. I shall also assume that you are a professional. I enjoy learning from the professionals both current and former. I have gained some real useful insights into the inner workings of the program that I never knew existed. And I have been around the block a few times in Scouting. In my council, we go through DE's like the leaves falling

Ah yes, the hidden bylaws. They are supposedly locked away somewhere in the SE's office. The hidden adgenda that is normally kept from the volunteer (at least in my council). The bylaws aren't just laying around for everyone to see. Most volunteers in my council don't even know they exist. So in other words, the bylaws supercede any training, any BSA policies and procedures written in various BSA publications. Do I understand this correctly? Should I simply disregard my copy of The District Committee election procedures, #33157? Is that what you are implying 89camper?

On the contrary 89camper, the council president does not appoint the district chair; the district chair is nominated and elected. I respectfully have to disagree with you. Those who elected the district chair, especially the chartered reps of the district who are voting members of both district and council do in fact deserve an explanation on why the district chair they elected was removed.

Eagle96, I have been noticing trends in my council. I have been able to research our council's membership numbers through the years. All the way back to the 1920's. But starting in the 70's, everytime the council got a new SE, the membership numbers dropped significantly, anywhere from 4,000 members to a one time loss of amost 18,000 during one of the SE transitions. The loss always came from special programs. One of my conclusions is that the oncoming SE is allowed to start his tenure with a lower number youth, and I do mean lower. It is then quite easy for the new SE to make his c

BadenP, These things have just happened in my council. I guess I belong to one of those exceptions. Very sad state of affairs of late. SE got promoted, numbers looked funny, audit team came in and long time executive board member told to step down for questioning things. Very sad indeed.

jhankins, what you said constitutes FRAUD! It's fraud at the professional level. So here is a question - what are the consequences to the professional(s) that committed the fraud in the first place? When the audit team comes and sweeps the mess under the rug what then happens to those professionals who benefited with promotions and raises due to the fraud they committed?

As I stated before in another thread, my council advancement committee requested thatnational define the word active and to publish it so that advancement committees everywhere could avoid the problems that could arise when others have multiple opinions concerning requirementswhere the word active is used. An email was sent to national requesting a definition for active: ...In order for our committee to better serve our council in the future, our council advancement committee also needs clarification and a definition of the word active from the policy writers in the national committ

Beavah, I have to disagree. Eagle Requirement 4 - While a Life Scout, serve actively for a period of 6 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility... A position of responsibility - responsibility is the key word here. This goes beyond simply holding a position in name only. If a Scout is a senior patrol leader, but never shows up to a meeting or an event, then that Scout is not "leading" his Troop. The troop needs its senior patrol leader to show up so he can manage the troop. It's a position of responsiblity. And the troop has every right to take away this position

Webelos Badge, Requirement 2: "Be an active member of your Webelos den for 3 months (Active means having good attendance, paying den dues, working on den projects)." But being active for the Eagle badge means to be simply registered with your dues paid. Being active in the Webelos program seems to have a different meaning than it does for the Boy Scout program. The word active becomes watered down in the Boy Scout program and no longer carries the typical webster's definition nor the definition of the Webelos program. So when boys become older and have to decide between f

BP, thank you for your candid eye opening comments. I will tell you this - as a long time volunteer from a long time Scouting family, things were very different back when I was a Scout in the 70's. Vounteers were still appreciated and had a real say in this volunteer organization. As a youth, I can remember noticing changes; a shift if you will from the volunteer to the professional that started in the late 70's.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)