Eagle1970

Here is the summary of the Missouri House Bill that addresses Sol for civil child sexual abuse:

CCS/SS/HCS/HB 1055 - This act changes the laws regarding sexual offenses. The act:

(15) Extends the statute of limitations for any civil action for recovery of damages suffered as a result of childhood sexual abuse; (Section 537.046)

1 minute ago, Muttsy said:

Why is that a problem? don’t believe in SOL scaling period. If a majority of voting survivors agree, then there won’t be. 

I trust that the majority of voting survivors would agree, as the majority of survivors are scaled.  I'm ready for the vote.  Let's get on with it.  Problem is that nobody ever asked before it was inserted into the plan.

1 minute ago, Muttsy said:

The whole scaling thing needs to be tossed in to the garbage can. It was the creation of lawyers that didn’t know boo about the reality of statutes of limitations. There has been massive misunderstanding of it on this forum as well. 
 

If MO passes it will influence neighboring states. I hear OK will pass one soon. Add those to two other states I never thought would pass windows AR and LA. The landscape is changing rapidly. 

I just saw the LA change in a New Orleans online article.  Many states will change it.  But this leaves me in the position of voting down any plan if scaling is in it.

Missouri House, last week, brought forward a bill that includes elimination/lengthening of the civil child sex abuse sol.  It appears to be moving along.  If the settlement is voted down,  can the Grey 3 be adjusted?

34 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I would like to be the fly on the wall when the coalitions bankers start asking for the repayment on the loans.

And I believe that is a good thing.  The more I have learned about the claims harvesting in this event, the more I hope they lose their butts on this as a "business venture".  While I understand some older claimants may deal with age-related memory issues, it is really a stretch to me when I hear tens of thousands of claimants don't have any recollection of where they were abused, who abused them or even how they were abused.  Again, I am blessed (or suffer from) recalling most details from my events 50 years ago, so maybe it's just me.  The process is very flawed imo.

Just wondering if anyone believes that the vote will overwhelmingly pass....

Other than the $3500 issue, I have not heard much to indicate any forward momentum.

38 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Then there are lawyers who trolled the internet to build a large group of claimants, have no clue and likely don’t care about their claims and are simply trying to get a settlement so they can charge their large fees while doing minimal work for individual claimants.  I wish those lawyers never got involved in this case. 
 

 

I have never seen any type of settlement involving real dollars where the claimant didn't have to, at least, give some detail.  I welcome the opportunity to tell my story.  Actually, it would help me get through this all.  But I would wager there is a big number of claimants that would drop off totally if they had to do the same.

5 hours ago, ThenNow said:

From a survivor claimant perspective, with these phased, contingent and tiered settlement structures, let’s say more like 15 years. I’m literally cringing typing this, being forced to see it on the screen. Ever been in surgery and you outrun the anesthesia? Yeah. Exactly. I think I had about a two year concentration of propofol in the bag, and even then the dose was woefully inadequate.

I'm almost 66 and won't allow this to consume my setting sun.  I'm NOT headed to court.  Missouri has its head up its @ss with trying for 10 years to eliminate the civil SoL for child sexual abuse.  The lawmakers let it die every time since 2013.  I don't think they ever really considered BSA victims.  Mostly it was alter boys and Marianist students.  Either way, the Insurers and Churches beat it down.  I moved away.   It is what it is.  Funny how they had NO problem eliminating the criminal SoL.  Let the state have its way and torture the victims while they testify and risk their lives.  But we ain't gonna make our insurance companies pay you no money!  I will never understand just how they can justify eliminating the criminal SoL but not so much as a window for civil.  Please explain it to me.

I do understand you seeking justice through your state court.  Most states are more reasonable than Missouri.  And yes, there are theories, such as delayed realization and various forms of concealment, but I don't have it in me.  Lord knows I had NO IDEA of how badly this abuse had impacted me until I joined the BSA BK club.  But I'm going to take the chump change they offer in the bk and give them all the information on the predator.  However, I'm not testifying, prosecuting, suing or anything else.  When I was younger, I really wanted to.  I couldn't sue because I was just past my civil SoL AND my abuser was protected by a criminal SoL.  Now he's not.  He's old, I hope he's dead.  I'm getting old too.  Just have to get past this.

The degree of injury to some survivors leaves me nearly in tears.  

1 hour ago, DJ72 said:

I'm trying to get a handle on this.  In quotes, here is the last sentence of  letter posted by the TCC to all abuse survivors.  "The Boy Scouts have announced a program for counseling. You can request information about this program by calling 1-866-907-2721 or emailing restructuring@scouting.org".  In my post, I suggest counseling for the lack of empathy toward survivors by the original poster.  How exactly is that a personal attack?  I'm asking respectfully and would like a response.  

I'm not getting involved in moderator matters.  But on the counseling, the last place I would go is through BSA.  Not even a 3rd party arranged by BSA.   Again, only those who suffered child sexual abuse would fully get this.

These old policies were written on an "occurrence" basis, meaning if it was a $1M policy limit, they could pay that limit to countless claimants under the policy term.  So if we have tens of thousands of victims who are not time-barred, that is tens to hundreds of billions in potential exposure.  So why would an insurer be settled out for $1B?  I always thought the contribution from insurers would be so much higher.  Can anyone break this down for me?

2 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

A thought came to me about just and fair compensation and how ridiculous the current offer is and let me explain. 

Survivors at a minimum suffer from PTSD, depression and anxiety.  If the VA determined that you had these same conditions from a traumatic event (and the sexual abuse is considered (traumatic) you would be awarded a minimum of a 30% disability.  A 30% disability would get you tax free approximately $500 per month or $6000 per year.  In addition you would be entitled free medical and that could easily be seen as an additional $500 per month.  If you got your VA award at the age of 30 and you lived until the age of 83 (hypothetical of course) you would have an award of $600,00.  

I know that we are in a bankruptcy but with an average award under the current plan to be about $39,000 or less (depends on who does the math) that is a pitiful amount compared to $600,000.  If I receive $39,000 and had to pay no lawyers fees and my abuse happened at the age of 13 and I lived to be 83 I would have received it would come out to $557 dollars for every year that I suffered.

Well stated.  I'll trade my way out of Greyville in my closed state any day, and the $7500 that will go with it, if I'm lucky.  But whether it is $3500 or $7500 or $39,000 it is pitiful.  We cannot look at this as any sort of just compensation.  Rather, it is a token.  And that's all it will ever be.

14 minutes ago, skeptic said:

It annoys me that some feel that today's churches should abandon their property assets, from where they continue to do outreach to the larger communities, just to fund the mistakes and judgment errors from decades ago.  Our over a century and a half old church has a half dozen major charitable entities that use their site for almost nothing, tending to drug and alcohol remediation, and running a preschool with low costs to parents, supporting food banks, supporting world wide mission outreach, and so on.  Just because the buildings may be worth money today, and even more so the properties on which many sit, does not mean they can give it all to funding those past mistakes.  Not fair to today's "victims".  The old adage, to stiff Peter to pay Paul may apply here.  But we are really looking at the broader issue of self centeredness versus community cohesiveness.  Who was it that said, "It takes a village"?  Well, too many want to destroy the village for their own benefits only.  Again, just my old fogie perspective.

 

It's like the guy who murdered his family 40 years ago and then went on to lead a clean life.  He is still responsible for his crime and has a debt to society.  Without the Catholic Church, I would have never been in the situation where my abuser could get to me.  Had I been able to file suit, they would clearly have been a party.  Yet, due to SoL, I have never been compensated for the twists and turns my life has taken as a result.  Basically, the church escaped on a technicality, as did the BSA.  I commend churches for the good they may do.  And I hold them responsible for sins of their past.  They, and the BSA are simply reaping the pain they caused in the past, in the form of low membership.

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Ok, a bit more info.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/086fbe27-7a3d-4f42-9a19-383482f8c997_7745.pdf

It looks like BSA's increase of $140M ($15M cash from LCs, $25M Loan from LCs and a $100M loan from BSA/LCs based on membership numbers).

This payment would release the UMC and Roman Catholic Church from all liabilities. 

The Catholic Church is directly responsible for my abuse.  Though SoL, by way of state legislators may leave them in the clear, its moral responsibility should remain.  And THAT is reflected in reduced membership in the Scouts AND Church.

I really hope they validate the claims, at least to a reasonable degree before dolling out what money there is.

Meanwhile, announced tonight is that Nassar's 500 victims will share a $380M settlement, while some BSA victims on the low end of the range may receive $1000, which these days is a trip or two to the grocery store.  Wow.

3 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

They actually used, “anonymous,” which was a flat out lie and they (should) know that.

Right.  My brain is fuzzy from spinning around.  "Anonymous" meaning all of my personal information will be sent to my local council and probably involve my troop leaders, with my name, address, phone, email and details of my abuse I almost never share. It is maddening.  

8 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Remember, the claimant number prediction was for the Plan' quick claimant submission deadline (May, 2020) and there was no definitive vetting process for those claimants. Proper?

Is it 10x or 50x larger? The vetting process is still being argued.

At this point, the only justice will be in vetting.  If given the opportunity and with NOW knowing the recovery will be miniscule, many claimants will voluntarily withdraw.  So, get on with the vetting.  Do like the SBA did on the Covid fraud and make a couple of examples of false claims public.  Give an easy out and I bet the claim count drops in half.

As far as it goes for me, as I have said all along, take a camp with a nice view and make it a monument for victims/survivors.  I will go there, maybe meet a friend or two, spend a little time cussing and crying and try to file this in a compartment where I can live the years I may have left, in peace.

I'm really interested in how the contingent-fee attorneys will walk back all of that big confidential money to their clients that they dangled in the commercials.  God only knows how many of the 82,500 never really had a claim.  But, you know, "confidential" and "just compensation" are pretty enticing.

Between the disappearing money for attorneys, grey state reductions and the like, I will probably receive nothing.  Oh, but I was able to re-live the experience, have all of my personal information shared with my Local Council and who knows what they did with it, and so on.  That means, for a BS lie from the BSA, my private world is now open, probably to be leaked in a data breach and in the end, all I did was help the LC and the hourly attorneys with THEIR positions.  As the victim, I am a victim all over again.  Suffice it to say, my support for scouting has waned.

I trained Race Horses for over a decade.  Once a storied sport, complete with celebrities and grand celebrations of well-dressed enthusiasts, it was transformed into a closed society where homeless and jobless sought shelter and minimal wages.  Over 20 years, the entire industry consolidated into few regional tracks that are largely populated by the aged, still attached by a tether to their younger days, with little participation from younger generations.  And the gambling that drove it didn't miss a beat in going online, apps, casinos and so on.  Simply stated, life changes.

And so it is with scouts.  When I was a boy, it seems like the cool kids were scouting.  These days, they are doing other things, some I understand and others I don't.  Some are healthy and some are not.  But life changes.  And scouting has the additional baggage of a history of abuse, which is front and center now.  I saw a post on fb this week about a troop having had its equipment trailer stolen.  The key post was something about having one less opportunity for the perverts to abuse the boys.  Seems cold, but not so unrealistic.  My wife and I still explore, but not as a part of an organized group.  If I were still raising children, I would still spend time with them and would still explore, but would not entrust them to BSA or any other group where I could not be there for them.  I do not see BSA surviving as in the past, though it may take time for the candle to completely wear out.  And don't get me started on the Catholic church.  Suffice it to say this is Sunday morning and I am not in the 3rd pew.

4 hours ago, ThenNow said:

This is one large piece of the ugly collage missing from my knowledge base. I do not have social media accounts (other than this enterprise, if it qualifies), nor do I watch television with commercials, if I can help it. Admittedly, I haven’t looked to find them, but does anyone have a handy link or three so I can take a peek? I will guard myself as I walk carefully into the den of Shelob and Aragog, aka the dark web of claims aggregation and mass tort gillnetting. Forgive me. Was that too strong? 🤔  

I do not have a link.  But I saw the ads.  And a lot of comments in every direction including ugly.  

1 minute ago, Life said:

I too do not want to minimize any truthful claim. Nor create a forest for a few trees scenario. But as a survivor/ victim myself, I have all my information as well as patches and all pertinent information. I also believe, after seeing the many ads on Facebook about how easy it would be to anonymously file a claim with no court involvement, that false claims would be a part of this. Those Facebook ads were brutal. The comments, ugh… I don’t agree, nor have I, with how this is going down. It is like being used al over again. 

To me, part of the justice is in validating the claim.  I look forward to giving details of my abuse and I only hope my abuser, a BSA camp employee, is still alive to face it.  The Facebook ads were off the charts, as were the television commercials.  The entire process has been gut wrenching.  I'm in a closed state so I'm not going to be compensated to any significant extent.  All I am doing with my comments is trying to help others recover what they have coming.  I never thought I'd agree with an insurer on this.  But I wholeheartedly support vetting these claims.  That should have been step one!!!  

1 minute ago, johnsch322 said:

After almost 55 years I do not remember any of the names of my fellow scouters. But I do remember my perpetrator, how old I was and where it occurred. 

I don't mean to be cold.  Blessed with a great memory, or at times cursed.  I'll wager you remember something, though, like where you held your meetings, attended camp, a hike you took....

15 hours ago, vol_scouter said:

The list of claimants was sent to the BSA who then matched names to registrations and councils.  Whenever the BSA did not have a registration, it was sent to the council based on the geographic location of the alleged abuse.  The councils looked into the computer databases and the paper records to try to verify that the claimant was in Scouting.  There are a substantial percentage that could not be identified.  As I said before, that does not guarantee that the claimant was not a Scout.  Paper records could have been lost or destroyed in a flood or fire.  Our council records are intact but there was a good percentage that were not able to be associated with a record anywhere.

Local councils and the BSA have worked diligently to identify all claimants but many could not be found.  

I'm sure there will be many cases of missing records after so many years.  Then it becomes a matter of the claimant providing at least some little morsel of proof.  Could I join the Talcum Powder case without proof of ever sprinkling it on me?  Or the Roundup case without proof I ever bought it?  I doubt it.  There is so little money to go around in this case, vetting seems reasonable and I would welcome someone contacting me.  On top of my own documentation, I could name 20 other scouts I participated with-after 50 years.

14 hours ago, yknot said:

That's not surprising because I think this all depends in the council you/were are in. As someone who was involved more on the committee side for years, councils are often unable to keep track of paperwork. Lost recharter packets, lost Eagle Scout applications, lost adult applications, lost training records, no matter whether in hard copy or e format. Our latest council after a series of mergers is somewhat better but in many cases records before fairly present day are simply lost. 

However, IF they are unable to document the case, the former scout should be able to furnish something to rectify that failure, such as names of fellow scouts, patrols, camps attended, scoutmaster name and so on.