Eagle1970

On 8/14/2023 at 8:14 PM, MYCVAStory said:

I agree but remember that the settling insurers are NOT required to make a large portion of their payments until ALL appeals have been settled.  So, the egg may not be as scrambled as it could be.

 

More important than ever, the longer the insurers can hold on to the money, the less it is worth.  The wife an I had breakfast at Denny's the other day for $48.70.  (So much for the $1.99 Grand Slam!).  Simply delaying the inevitable is a win for them (and a loss for survivors).
 

I was a strong NO on this.  When I originally was working on my Proof, I called in for some information and was told that it didn't matter that my state was closed SoL, because it was a bankruptcy.  Also was told "everyone would be treated equally".  Of course I came to find out that the SoL absolutely mattered, as my state is 10% and along with that, we clearly are not being treated equally.  However, I have come around, primarily because the victims are aging and dying off, so I just concluded that some justice for some was better than no justice for any.

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

If it doesn't, I see a decade of council and charter org lawsuits and bankruptcy with primarily lawyers getting rich.

A Missouri Judge recently let a time-barred suit move forward against a summer camp, based on fraud in disclosure, or lack thereof.  So even closed states will have issues.  My troop is Catholic Parish sponsored.  So I can see where that would go if BK fails to settle the issues.  

I have a good friend involved in the Purdue case (lost his brother).   Though they haven't waited nearly as long as BSA survivors, what a shame it is that they must wait even longer for justice when they reached a deal they agreed to.   And what if it totally falls apart?  Maybe another 10 years?  Or nothing....

Similarly, in our case, there is a possibility that IT falls apart.  If not, how many survivors will "age out" before the courts are finished.  I suspect trust recipients are passing away weekly.

With real rates of inflation, which I believe to be much higher than the CPI, a BSA abuse victim from the early 70's (as am I) might not see 5 cents on the dollar, and even that may be years down the road.  What a travesty!  Meanwhile, my perp is fully protected by the SOL and BSA moves forward.

There are days I wish I never involved myself in this.

4 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

To the best of my knowledge the scaling factors will be modified to the "current" State of the SOL landscape.  That's also why there's a 12-month holding period for Survivors who anticipate changes for their State.  Just my guess.  But, a couple other points:

1.  The Trust has a LOT of explaining to do regarding processes.  The Judge has said she's going to answer questions.   We'll see if she knows what that means. A claims processing company will be retained.  It will get a lot of questions.  For now we all have questions and the questionnaire is in development.  THEN, there will be six months to get that in.  So, there's a LOT of time for a LOT of issues to come up and hopefully be addressed.  As well, there are 4,000 pro se claimants and the Trustee knows it so there will need to be assistance for unrepresented Survivors and those who aren't happy with their attorney communication.

2.  And, a "Don't shoot the messenger" message.  Remember that the Third Circuit still has this to be considered under appeal.  All it did was refuse to continue the stay.  That allowed the Trust to move forward since the plan allowed it after District Court affirmation.  So, while the Trust is motivated to get things going ASAP since the Circuit will look at how much progress has been made and will consider that before overturning anything, that may take a year considering the Circuit's pace.  Non-settling insurers are happy to wait.  THEN, if they don't prevail they submit a writ to the Supreme Court to have it consider their position.  Getting that accepted is anyone's guess and then the time to any hearing is also an unknown.  What all of that means is that Survivors will get an award "letter" but any award "payments" are more than likely a multi-payment proposition that will take more than a year and the percentage of the award value is still a big unknown.

Sorry, I know this didn't answer your question directly.  It's just meant as some encouragement that a LOT of questions are to come AND there is a lot of time for this to still play out.  What did I hear, 10,000 claimants over 70?  I just want to be alive when this is done playing out.  The fact that many Survivors haven't made it, and still more won't, is tragic and I hope some day that story becomes part of the narrative that changes how the bankruptcy laws are being used to address what happened to us.

 

 

Very detailed and helpful.  Thank you. 

I was able to resource into the pending bill detail to find out that a lookback window in Missouri is in conflict with a line in the state constitution, which is why it was stripped out of the bill.  However, they are working on some sort of a workaround, though I have no idea what that might be.  Either way, there is movement in my state to get some help for survivors.  It's not just a BSA thing in MO.  There is a Nationally chartered camp here with a lengthy history of CSA and a bunch of older survivors who would like their day in court.  The bill has bipartisan support, so fingers crossed.

You and I both on the hope of being alive when this is done playing out.

Missouri House has perfected a bill (HB367) to increase SoL to 20 years from age 21 or when injury was discovered.  Unfortunately, they stripped out the window, which was the purpose in bringing the bill.  But it is still more than doubling of the reporting period for action.  The Insurance lobby and Chamber of Commerce were the primary voices against the bill, so they chopped out the meat and moved it forward without the window.  Scout survivors and long-time survivors of a summer-camp were heavily behind passage.  Their entire message was about the need for the window so both groups of survivors could seek justice.  I'm sure they are devastated.  But it is Missouri.

My question for the group regards the "Proposed SoL Scaling Factors".  So, are they set in stone with the Trust having moved forward?  Missouri is listed as 10-25% in that chart.  But when I compare what is likely to be the new SoL, it would become longer than some states that have a 50% factor.  What other factors are involved with those rather arbitrary percentages?

I represent myself, and can't seem to find a resource to clarify this.  My case is documented.  But the SoL factor, if it stands, will minimize any recovery.  If I were in an open state, I would surely be represented and likely take the IRO.  But, at this point, all I can do is whatever I can to address the SoL.  There have been cases that tolled the old (7 year) SoL and with one that is so much longer, it would seem that would be an easier road for a plaintiff than in the past.  So it surprises me that the state is 10-25%.  I'm sure I am missing something.  Anyone?

Mods, I wonder if this forum should be spun off into survivor issues vs. BSA ongoing operations discussion.

Anyway, I see in my USPS Informed Delivery that I have a letter coming from Omni today.  Has anyone received it?

Since you bring up inflation, I'm going to get this off my chest:

Inflation has tremendously eroded the compensation survivors may receive.  My abuse occurred about 50 years ago.  Since then, the cumulative "reported" inflation is around 900%.  Given my state's current SoL, if I were to receive $50k, the real value is closer to $5k in late 1960's terms, even with government inflation figures.  And the 60's is when the damage occurred.

I know of a clear policy limits situation that recently settled for limits after 5 years of delays (jurisdiction, discovery, motions, summer vacations, COVID).  As the trial date approached and they were facing actual expenses, the insurer wrote the check.  Meanwhile,  the dollars they paid had lost 25% of value since the injury, so the policy limit, in effect, was reduced by that amount.  The insurer's bottom line benefitted accordingly.  And the injured party suffered accordingly.

Without any consideration for the time-value loss of the dollar, there can be no truth to the statement I keep seeing about survivor claims being fully paid.  And the same goes for the contributions of settling insurers.  While I understand the need to settle with willing insurers in order to establish some sort of trust, those insurers know good and well what a bargain they are getting.  Justice delayed = justice denied.

That's great news.  BSA can now move forward, with new protection measures in place that should take away much of the opportunity predators previously exploited.  And survivors can try to get some compensation while we are still alive.

Missouri House Bill 367, amending SoL for CSA from 10 years to age 55 AND adds a window.... Moving swiftly through the legislature.  From my understanding, this now proceeds to the House floor.

12 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

For a period of up to twelve (12) months from the Effective Date, and by an election exercised at the time of the Trust Claim Submission, 

Thank you.

What is meant by the "Effective Date"?  Is it following appeals?  And what is meant by "an election exercised at the time of the Trust Claim Submission"?  Some in Ohio believe that the effective date was last year (September?) when the plan was approved.  Others believe it is when all appeals are exhausted.  

I'm following efforts in Missouri and Ohio for windows and other SoL reform.  One article refers to states having 1 year from the final approval of the Plan (assuming after all appeals are exhausted) and then they will receive a change in factor for SoL.  Can anyone point to this in the Plan?

6 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I'd take odds in Vegas against that, but then again ... What does "wrap up" mean ?  All legal challenges closed ?  First checks sent out ?   Checks outside the $3500 quick settlement sent ?  Complete wrap-up feels like it is years and years out.  I'm thinking 10 years plus before the trust is fully distributed.  Maybe next year for some checks.

While I understand it will take years to deal with non-settling insurers and other contributors, if they get out the initial payments that would be amazing.

10 hours ago, MYCVAStory said:

Another question is how long until the plan goes effective and what needs to happen before then.  A bankruptcy pro I spoke to today dumbed it down for me in a way I understood.  This is a lot like closing on your house.  You agree on a deal but now there's the sausage-making.  You need an appraisal, insurance, termite inspection, flood certification, mortgage approval, title search....and set a closing date for a month or two down the road hoping you can get it all done by then.  That's where we are.  

Not to pin you down or anything.... But are you indicating there is a possibility this could wrap up this year??

14 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

And the answer to what happens next.... Fist let's see how long it takes the insurers to file a stay.

 

So, how many paths do insurers have before they run out of appeals, assuming the Supreme Court isn't interested?

As this drags out, the state where my abuse occurred, Missouri, has this going on:

https://missouriindependent.com/2023/02/14/kanakuk-abuse-survivors-urge-missouri-lawmakers-to-extend-statute-of-limitations/

And Ohio has this going on:

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2023/02/22/new-bill-allows-boy-scouts-sexual-abuse-victims-to-maximize-settlement-claims/

I wonder if the Matrix will get another look.  If any of these open a window, that fact could certainly be argued in the individual cases, my non-legal brain hopes.

On 2/15/2023 at 5:57 PM, MYCVAStory said:

LOTS and lots of "what ifs" right now.  Always good to consider them but there also comes a time for me when I must focus upon what is rather than what might be.

I'm right with you.  But I also need to focus on what might be, so that I face no further disappointment on this matter.

So if the appeals drag this out for a couple of years and if that causes BSA to file Chapter 7 liquidation, what is the bottom line on survivor's recovery?

2 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

The District court decision could be stayed by the court if the insurers fight for the stay, and they probably would get it based upon precedence, so it could go to Circuit court review.  A wait for Circuit Court could be....a year if that's what it wants or it knows an issue will come up in the Supreme Court in the meantime.  The Trust could be funded but only for "startup" costs so that key personnel can start work on procedures in anticipation of real funding.  Expect that to occur so that the Trust can say to the Court "Look, we're all ready to go and the Trust is working as designed."  I'd like to be all kinds of optimistic here but the reality is that the non-settling insurers have EVERY reason to hold this up as long as possible.  Well, billions of reasons at least.

Unfortunately, time is always on the side of insurers.  I know of an injury case where the insurer recently wrote a check for the policy limit.....in the 6th year following the event.  They probably knew they were going to write that check.  But--Over six years, the dollars became far less valuable, due to inflation, and earned the insurance company a healthy investment return.  Sadly, in that case, 6 years of expenses ate up much of the injured party's recovery.

I agree this could drag out.  Though I hope (for the sake of survivors who are aging by the day) I am proven wrong.

1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

They either secure loans, donations, sell more assets, etc. (some form of cash infusion),  or file Chapter 7.

In the case at hand, what is the probability of Chapter 7?

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

To be clear, they really need to be cash flow positive. Those are expensive facilities that require significant funds to maintain plus are under a mountain of debt.   If you take into account the full balance sheet including debt and depreciation I bet the outcome is closer to 0 to negative... but short term positive on the cash side.  This is just a guess. 

Given the lengthy appeals process, what happens to an enterprise like BSA if it runs out of money during a bankruptcy, especially with regards to this settlement??

9 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

It has been a while, but it feels like we are getting close to the end (or the beginning of the actual trust).

It doesn't seem like District Court is pushing to overturn.  In Purdue, the confirmation was September 17th and it took the District Court less than a month to reject the deal.  I also do not see the US DOJ pushing hard against the BSA deal (compared to what they did in Purdue).  I'm starting to get the impression that approval by District Court is highly likely.  If they had major concerns, one would think they would push to hear the appeal more quickly.  That doesn't guarantee anything, but the arguments put forward by the insurance companies seem weak (for the most part, they can still fight the settlement trust).  There are a few claimants, but the vast majority seem to support the plan.  This circuit already allows non debtor releases ... so, I just don't see much momentum behind rejection.  That said ... there is always a path.

I am hopeful by March we may see the approval of the plan by District Court.  I believe further appeals can happen after that, but from what I understand, the plan would start being implemented after district court and appeals could quickly become moot.

From your lips to god's ears.

24 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Could you enter this in a will?  Disposition of a settlement in your favor, that is?

 

This is sort of along the lines of my question.  And how would a surviving member present further claim info.

The longer this goes on, the more I wonder how many survivors will be gone by the time there is resolution. 

Average life expectancy is in the mid-70's and many of us were abused 50-60 years ago.  Not getting any younger, I'm at the unfortunate point of having to document my "memories" so my wife can tell my story, should my ticket run out.  And that goes for my fellow scouts (as potential witnesses) who were present at camp but not abused.  In my case, several were specifically aware of my abuser's history before I was.  

Does anyone have input into how to best document for this possibility?

The only state-level issue I have read about is the failure of a legislative carve-out of the Ohio SoL for the purposes of this settlement.  Widely expected to become law, it was opposed by the Chamber of Commerce, among others, apparently as "bad for business".   I continue to find it appalling that nearly half of the states and territories have amended statutes, while others won't even look at a bill to do so.  Those abused in states that have not are subject to receiving pennies on the dollar that those in California, New York and so many others are set to receive.  And many more states have amended their criminal SoL so that perps can be imprisoned, but their victims cannot seek justice in civil court.  Yes, I understand each state makes laws, and not the federal government.  But, tell me this is equitable.