camilam42

@ ScoutLass, You say, "The reason I state your argument is invalid because it is as you say, the teachings of the Catholic church. The reasoned arguments in these teachings are only reasonable within the scope of the specific theology and history of the organization/faith from which they are drawn. Not everyone shares this theology." The ideal which I am speaking of isn't really something that is strictly Catholic. It is just stated most concisely in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. That is why I brought a correlation between the CCC and the BSA policy. Also, I assumed that y

@ Beavah et al., This is the last time I will post on this topic, as I believe that it has become a circular conversation. First, this "model" wasn't my decision. I am merely the counsellor. I don't have any control over how the unit determines the means. I am just working as part of the whole in our Pack. Second, I have a very good grasp on Catholicism and while I am always looking deeper into the Catholic Faith, that doesn't mean that I don't understand what I am talking about when it comes to Catholicism. Third, I agree that there is something inherently good in the S

@ skeptic, I know what you're saying, but in attempting to keep emotion out of it is important. My emotional view doesn't effect the BSA in any way shape or form. My role as a volunteer is to support the BSA. That is what I am doing, albeit through reason and not through emotion.

I am not going to get into a theolgoical debate with another Catholic or anyone else on the boards. Thank you.

@ ScoutNut, "This is not, and should not, be a school type lesson....It is more of a personal discovery for the boy about how his faith is an intimate part of his everyday life, and not something that is only contained in a church, or a classroom, or something that needs a degree in Philosophy, or Theology, to understand." Who said that it would be? Do you know how we are going to be speaking to the Scouts? The assumption is that we're going to do a MB Univeristy type setting. That isn't the case. I've said all along that the parents/guardians are going to do homework with the ki

@ Beavah, You state, "It presupposes a very authoritative, top-down approach to knowledge and faith, where the emphasis is on being taught rather than on learning, on recitin' knowledge of the faith rather than on living the faith." The Church has always had an authoritative, top-down approach to knoweldge and Faith. And yes, there is an emphasis on being taught the Faith, because the Church does know better than any one person. It is a MAJOR difference in philosophy between Catholics and Protestants. But to assume that reciting knowledge of the Faith does not necessarily lead on

@ ScoutLass, "Oh, and "Pagan" Rome did not convert to Christianity, it split apart,as empires do as they fall -- Islam and Christianity played major roles, along with all the various small-tribe religions of conquered people that were no longer held under the imperial thumb. Rome was eventually reduced to a city-state. Even Constantinople fell. Historically speaking of course. The decline of Rome also heralded in the dark ages and the crusades -- which most historians tend to agree were more focused on greed and power that religious zeal. So Rome isn't the best example to use here..."

@ ScoutNut, Greetings....I don't know if you're Catholic or not, honestly it doesn't really matter, but from a Catholic perspective, our parish has found that some of the parents don't know that much about their own faith. The Catholic Church has very clear definitions on what the Truth is regarding the Faith of her members. With that being said, the parish I belong to is a more traditional one and puts a high emphasis on said Truths. The pastor feels that it is a better thing to assist the parents teach aspects of Parvuli Dei to the Scouts in a more formal setting, as opposed to a les

@ clemlaw, I've checked several sites, including troop level, district level, and council level and it seems in all cases that if the Arrow of Light has been awarded, then it is to be placed in the appropriate spot. No place says that it can be forgone because of a new shirt. I could be wrong...

@ Scoutfish, You say, "What we have here is BSA telling CO that "This is what you are going to do, to be able to be chartered." That means BSA has determined what is morally righta s far as the rules go. That does not say or indicate that all people agree with them,only that they have to follow BSA's rule in order to charter a Unit. The Co does not have a choice as top wether to allow a homosexual to serve. BSA took that decision away from the CO. IF a CO actually fely having a Gay person be a volunteer, they still couldn't do that per BSA's rule, not their own feelings of mor

@ Eagle92, BOR's were so stressful. I know they are not meant to be cakewalks, but from what I remember, I used to get so nervous....good thing I got over that....

@ shortridge, You respond, "No, they don't. A United States judge would never rule on such a point. What those cases did show is that a private organization has the right to determine its membership. Simple." Actually, Judge Rehnquist delivered the opinion of the Supreme Court with regard to the Dale case. Judge Werdegar delivered the opinion in the Curran case and so on. I don't disagree that the cases show what you say, they most certainly do, but they are also opinions rendered by Justices and Judges. From www.bsalegal.org, "The United States Supreme Court reversed the New

@ Beaveah, I see your points, I really do. I'm not trying to be difficult, but rather I am enjoying this conversation. That being said; you say, "Yah... the vast majority of da couple dozen scouts that would recognize a silver critter award. Seriously, most adult volunteers don't know what all the knots stand for, eh? The kids are by and large clueless." If they saw it they would most likely ask, just becuase of childlike curiousity. And Scouters should take the time to know what all the knots and awards are, for both Scouts and Scouters. I firmly believe that this is one

@ ScoutLass, Respectfully, I must disagree with you on this issue. You state, "The moral argument doesn't fly, as not all organizations represented within the BSA feel that homosexuality is morally wrong in any way, shape or form." I don't quite understand what you are getting at. What organizations within the BSA are you speaking of? And if they didn't think that they were morally wrong, why don't they allow for homosexuals to serve as volunteers then? The answer to that is pretty clear, because the BSA doesn't think that it is "morally straight" to do so. The cases that I list

The Parvuli Dei award is intended for work with the parent or guardian, but there are also parts which can be molded into a group setting with the Scouts so that they are getting consistent teaching from a Catholic perspective. It is both family and parish oriented. Some choose to allow for it to be done strictly with the family, then meeting one on one with the priest or his representative who is the facilitator. Some choose to allow for it to be done in a mixture of class and home work so that the teaching is consistent with Catholic teaching. That is how I did it when I was a Cub. Eith

@ Beavah, "Can yeh provide a citation for the claim that an adult leader who doesn't wear all of his knots is "out of uniform"." If you look to the inspection sheet, it speaks to what should be above the left pocket, correct. It says, "Embroidered square knots are centered above the pocket in rows of three." One will get 5 points for having the knots on the uniform correctly placed. Logic would dictate that if you had knots missing and/or not applied at all, with knowledge that they were to be there, then you would be docked 5 points on your inspection. That seems pretty official

@ TomTrailblazer, "I believe that homosexual behavior is unhealthy, but I also think the current BSA policy is wrong." First, greetings. Second, I have a degree in Philosophy, so you'll have to pardon me if I come off dry, it is in my nature to do so, based upon my educational background. What I see in this statement is a bit of an oxymoron. My reasoning is this...if you believe that homosexual behavior is unhealthy, why would you expose Scouts to it? What you are suggesting is akin to saying, "I believe that chicken pox is unhealthy, but I also think that the current school

Hi All, @ packsaddle, I grew up in Humboldt, which is about an hour South of Okoboji. I've had many a trip to the Lake, so I get it. @sheldonsmom, I was just in CB/Omaha about two months ago for a conference...go figure.

@ VigilEagle04 and Eagle92, Thanks for the clarification. If that is indeed the case, and I have no reason to disagree at this point, then I would say wear what you've earned. Might it look a little garish? Probably, but then again, there are those that would say an Eagle with all his palms, merit badges, temp badging, den chief cords, etc....would look pretty garish too. This is all a means to an end. It is to promote Scouting and provide an example to the Scouts. Since knots do that, I have no issue with wearing the appropriate regalia. Again, if we are to assume the Scout Law, t

@ neilLup, "The problem and risk can come when an individual has so many knots that it risks looking silly under normal circumstances. Or when knots, or lack of knots is used to make an individual uncomfortable. I have seen an individual with at least 21 knots -- seven rows. I fear that this did seem to be a bit much. But I kept that to myself. If it made him happy and encouraged him to do good things for youth, more power to him." Hello back, I understand your statement, and I am very well aware of how ego can play into this. However, are we not supposed to espouse all of th

Let me pose this question..... If the BSA intended for us (Scouts and Scouters) to earn the award, but not promote the award or only promote it as we see fit, why bother making the knot system? My answer.... It would seem that the concept of the knot system is to serve as an example for the Scouts. If they know, understand, and recognize the knots, see that they are being worn and educated on the reason why the knot system is in place, then I believe that the knots, no matter how many earned should be worn. The impotice falls upon us, as Scouters, to show the Scouts that w

@Jeffrey H, "I wear the full uniform as an Adult Leader in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for the following reasons: 1) To show that I'm a member of a great youth organization that I believe in. 2) To set an example to the Scouts and Scouters for proper wearing of the full uniform. 3) I paid good money for my uniforms and I'm not letting them sit in my closet just because I'm saving them for a more "formal" event. 4) It is a method of the Scouting program. When Adult Leaders are more consistent with our uniforming, then we will see more boys doing the same." I couldn'

Hello, my name is Andy Milam. I'm the new Pack Committee Chair for Pack 139 in Des Moines, Iowa. I'm getting back into Scouting after a long layoff. It is going to be great to see a new generation of Scouts go through everything that I did and I'm really looking forward to helping them exceed what I did while a Scout. I look forward to learing a lot from all of you as well.