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Posts posted by Terasec

  1. 20 hours ago, Pale Horse said:

    At about 220 sq. miles, I would hardly call a population density of 1.5 people/sq. mile a "crowd".

    understand the overall land

    its still 350 ppl/day being funneled in/out through single place

    don't like being herded like cattle out to pasture


  2. 9 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

    I've found that having engaging Den Leaders that communicate well with parents and put on a fun program is the best way to recruit and retain Scouts. Since my best leaders right now are Bears and W1, we're heavy in those ranks.

    Cub Summer camp will always be heavier toward the older ranks. Less parents of Tigers/Lions are able to take off work to meet the 1:1 requirement. Still as Wolves and Bears, even though they're allowed to attend w/o parents, few parents trust their child to attend an overnight campout without them.

    Webelos are starting to make the transition to Scouts, so you should (hopefully) be seeing more of them camping and breaking away from mom & dad.


    This was my third year at summer camp.

    previous 2 years was pretty well balanced, this year was a dramatic drop without doing a headcount was probably +100 upper ranks. maybe 5-10 of lower ranks

    drop goes beyond just age and leadership as would have seen the difference from the start



  3. our pack has been top heavy for a couple years, plenty of W1-W2's very few Tigers/bears/wolves

    we figured it was limited to our own pack, yet at summer camp noticed entire camp was top heavy with very little of the lower dens,

    is this a trend? common problem elsewhere?

  4. 11 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

    Camps can have their own sets of rules, some internal, some dictated by the state because they're camps.  In addition to whatever forms your camp requires for summer camp your troop should require the BSA Annual Health and Medical Record (AHMR) for everybody in the troop and anybody going on an outing with you.

    "For any and all Scouting activities, all participants must complete Part A and Part B."


    The two authorizations are not necessarily in conflict with each other.  The camp has an authorization to administer OTC and the troop has authorization to administer OTC.  Given what the camp form says you could check with them for their opinion of whether you refer everything to them while at camp.  Our camp has us send everything above band aid level to them.



    "Administration of the above medications is approved for youth by: "

    is on form b

    applies to all scouts at all outings

    it is not authorization to administer any OTC meds at will

    it is intended for scouts that are currently taking OTC meds for various ailments, those meds must be listed on form b for anyone to administer them,

    such scouts should have their own meds and leaders advised of their condition and what meds to give them and when

    just about all states have regs on who can administer what meds to others

    cant even give Tylenol to others without authorization



  5. 13 minutes ago, Terasec said:

    the BSA  medical form I have authorizes camp office to administer the meds its not a blanket authorization for all

    have it in front of me as going to camp on sunday

    this is a BSA local council med form

    " the following medications are available in the camp health office and will be administered at the discretion of the camp medical officer. If approval is ordered by the healthcare provider below"




  6. 5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:


    The Second page of Part B of the BSA form states

    “Non-prescription medication administration is authorized with these exceptions:_______________________________________________“

    This would apply to the Troop leaders and these forms should be filled out in addition to any local form.




    you skipped the line that says

    "Administration of the above medications is approved for youth by: "

    OTC medications youth is taking must be listed

    its not a blanket authorization to administer any OTC meds at will

  7. 11 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

    Health forms should cover this correct?  They state allergies to meds & if you are approved to give over the counter meds.   Most med kits contain Benadryl in wipes or creams.  We have had ER docs in our Troop and we use it all the time if med form doesn’t counterindicate on Benadryl.

    It is correct about use of prescription drugs without a prescription is illegal, Epipens fall into a special category.   As far as Epipens, laws vary by state.  California now allows organizations to get prescriptions for Epipens to use them on people without prescriptions.


    36 states now have laws to allow usage and stocking at entities.



    the BSA  medical form I have authorizes camp office to administer the meds its not a blanket authorization for all

    have it in front of me as going to camp on sunday

    this is a BSA local council med form

    " the following medications are available in the camp health office and will be administered at the discretion of the camp medical officer. If approval is ordered by the healthcare provider below"


  8. On 7/8/2019 at 8:42 PM, scoutldr said:

    My wife retired as a school nurse (RN). 

    Carrying an epi-pen in the first aid kit is risky if it is not prescribed and used for the individual prescribed.  It is illegal to give prescription drugs to someone else.  Just be aware of the risk you are taking.


    one could get a prescription for EpiPen to administer to others,

    if you tell your dr your a scout leader with regular outings with kids, and inform them of various first aid training you may have had, they can write you a prescription for the EpiPen to administer to others, that would be up to dr's discretion 

    I have discussed this issue during various first aid courses, what is always mentioned is do not have your meds available to others, scout trips FAK which is accessible by other leaders and parents should not have such things in them,

    want to have meds in your FAK, put it in your personal FAK not in group FAK



  9. On 7/8/2019 at 12:09 PM, Jameson76 said:

    We had a Scout who had while not an anaphylactic reaction did get some hives while playing a wide game, got into some vines or other underbrush.  We gave him some Benadryl.  One leader wanted to know what happens if they have an allergic reaction to benadryl. 

    I told them we would give them more benadryl

    check your laws, in most places its against the law to administer such to others, unless its by a parent or certified to do so.

    I only keep such on my personal FAK not in pack accessible FAK,

    Benadryl  does not stop reactions only alleviates symptons and could hinder first responders or other medics diagnosis,


  10. 2 hours ago, Pale Horse said:

    I live in an area with a fair number of immigrants. It's more of the skilled-labor, engineers, and computer scientist types from Europe, India, China, & Japan. Many are here for a few years and have plans to return home.

    It does seem that my Asian families don't particularly want to camp, especially not rustic camping. It may also be due to weekend obligations that take precedence over Scouting. Since a lot of families do plan on returning to their home country, they want their kids to learn that culture, so they have them enrolled in a cultural school on weekends (Chinese School all day Saturday for example).

    I am part of a pack in Chinatown most of the pack is Chinese, many choose activities for the kids that will benefit them academically, school school and more school

    after school classes, weekend classes, summer  school classes, there are probably 2-5 afterschool centers per block in Chinatown, that is their priority

    they do not put an emphasis on scouting like they do on academic activities, if it doesn't help their 6 yr old get into Harvard or Yale they wont put the time in

    yes there are some that take advantage of scouting and outdoor opportunities but they are a small percentage of the population

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  11. As an Immigrant myself from Italy

    idea of camping in Italy and most of Europe is different than US,

    in Italy there is almost no public lands that you can just set up a tent and few places that is allowed is highly regulated

    European national lands is more like US national and state  parks as opposed to US and state forests

    its mostly caravan(camper) camping and that is very limited

    excursions into the forests are day trips whether for hunting foraging or just hiking

    I have family through out Europe, while many of them are outdoorsy none of them camp the way we do in the US


  12. BSA policy is separate dens

    any looking the other way is what BSA has done for decades and why they have  the problems they currently have

    there are lots of rules/regs /policies I disagree with I still follow them

    I Have zero respect for leaders who only follow policy when its convenient

    scout oath scout law, woodbadge beads mean absolutely nothing when such leaders violate policy

    if you have a few girls and combine them with boy dens  you lack leadership and all the children within the unit suffer



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  13. On 5/3/2019 at 10:14 PM, Jameson76 said:

    Other than Scouts have done a good bit of sports coaching.  One of the parents was a lawyer, so I asked him what my liability was if a player got injured.  His umbrella response was that they (as parents) had to assume some risk as they allowed their child to play a sport.  Yes you could have an action against you, but it likely would not be a winnable one if you as the coach were doing normally accepted actions or it was the course of the game and no visible risks were present.  Drills, exercises, and other activities that would be associated with the sport and as the coach was taking reasonable care.  As others have noted, not being negligent.  Preface to that is normally acceptable of course.  

    Scouts is similar, parents do have some assumption of risk.  They may not like that, but it is there.  Within the BSA medical form, that every participant should sign and their guardian should sign, there is this disclaimer:

    I understand that participation in Scouting activities involves the risk of personal injury, including death, due to the physical, mental, and emotional challenges in the activities offered. Information about those activities may be obtained from the venue, activity coordinators, or your local council. I also understand that participation in these activities is entirely voluntary and requires participants to follow instructions and abide by all applicable rules and the standards of conduct.

    Now, as with the sports example, are you taking reasonable care, are you or other leaders not being negligent, are you doing the things expected?  For example you are on a backpacking trek and as a side activity you lead them up a 40' free climb without proper gear.  That might be a challenge if someone gets hurt.

    Exercise care, and most importantly...don't be stupid.


    On 5/3/2019 at 10:14 PM, Jameson76 said:


    Regardless of liability and fault, there is always risk of litigation,

    a leader can spend years and thousands of dollars fighting litigation regardless of waivers

    most lawyers will pursue the carriers and orgs with funds, not so much the individual him/herself,


  14. 12 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    I wonder if there is more to the story?

    Trail looks to be only less than 2 miles from 1 parking area and less than 3 miles from another.  Not discounting dehydration that can come on quickly, 

    Here is a map of the park


    my guess would be probably had underlying condition exasperated by the hike

    a healthy 16 yr old should not have a problem with such a hike even with just minimal water


  15. if your going to use a service similar to venmo, you should have them use the service your bank uses

    each bank uses a different service provider for such

    when its your own bank theres usually no fees for you

    if your accepting someone elses transfer company you incur fee's

    you shouldn't have to incur fee's for such,

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  16. 18 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

    Sad indeed.  

    It's a steady progression towards a wimpier, less self-confident kind of boy. Challenges help a kid grow and meeting them head-on are what make a man.

    Looking back at the original 1910 BSA rank requirements, I see this for First Class...

    4. Travel alone by foot or rowboat to a point at least 7 miles distant and return (15 miles if by vehicle or animal), and write a short report. It is preferable to take 2 days to do this.


    its a shame how bsa has moved away from the independent outing to the mommy and me programming it is today

  17. On 10/16/2018 at 12:45 PM, acco40 said:


    Would I do that today for an overnight activity?   Probably not.  But a few years ago, I had one patrol (older boys) do a "patrol outing" of sorts where they camped out of earshot and sight line from the remainder of the troop, we were hosting Webelos Scouts, and the boys absolutely loved it.  I made the mile walk around 9:30 PM to see if everything was kosher and then again around 7:30 AM just as a check.  It really fostered youth leadership and they talked about that outing for years as one of their favorites.

    You have to know your boys and I'm a believer that the more you put trust in them, the more they will reward you for that trust.

    I'm sure it was a liability issue for the BSA but it's sad they took the patrol option away.



    one of my gripes with scouting is way too much supervision,

    having adults within earshot is not the same as being on your own,


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