FaithfulScouter

Being a member of the OA kept my Scout in Scouting.  He is a self professed nerd, and the OA Scouts are his people, much more so than his Troop members.  He took on a leadership role in his chapter and loved it.  He took Lodge Leadership Development, which was fantastic because his Troop leaders didn't even know what ILST was! His new Scoutmaster recently noted that he was an active OA member and commented that he was "trying to load his resume".  Too bad he doesn't really know what it's about..

14 hours ago, someone said:

I appreciate the advice  - there were plenty of good moments, but the issues now are my son  - Life working on Eagle, has seen the ugliness of the BSA enough that he just wants his Eagle and will be out - he'll not continue the tradition of being a leader... has seen too much ugly, sees what his parents are going through now and truly despises the very program we all honoured.  The Charter Bear continues to growl, Council appears to have been neutered and National is a disgrace... so afraid to step in that they hide in their Ivory Tower in fear of reality outside their walls.

The frustration is there - but it's more anger at what can only be considered dereliction of duty = the absolute abandonment of the Scouts in favour of money and power.

I accept my time has come to go - but I worry about the state of what we are leaving behind.

My Scout just earned Eagle.  Unfortunately he has witnessed a lot of ugly behavior from adult leaders as a result of my volunteerism.  (And unfortunately when I wasn't a volunteer.) We were seriously concerned about his EBOR because of the many unscrupulous leaders, including at the District level. He doesn't even want an ECOH, despite his very impressive Scouting resume.  However, he moved to a new Unit and is happier than he has ever been.  Not sure about his ongoing level of participation but I'm glad he's still involved.   Having earned Eagle has been a relief to him.  He has a tremendous amount of resentment toward the BSA.

We don't attract the best volunteers, just the only ones who sign up.  Unfortunately some of the adult volunteers are on power trips, ultimately hurting the youth they are there to guide.

For starters, if our Leaders actually followed YPT we would be in a much better position.  

Youth protection requires two deep leadership.  I've seen Eagle car washes and project days with NO adult leadership. Our District is aware but they don't say anything. 

No one on one contact with Scouts.  I've seen leaders give Scouts rides home in their car ALONE.  

Leaders are not supposed to drink alcohol on trips.  They do, and in fact I know a Leader with a DWI who still drinks on camping trips.

All written communication from a Scout should have another adult copied.  A lot of our adult leaders say 'Don't worry about it'.  

The 72 hour rule for registration is a good one and in fact I always required that if you're going to spend a lot of time with our Scouts than you MUST register and get a background check.  My requirement was NOT well received by some adult leaders and was waved off with 'well why don't you just register EVERYONE?!"

7 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Yeah.  I've seen that.  We left a troop because of how another leader was treating my son's friend when it was really that the leader did not like the dad.  It was their way to get rid of the dad.  It damaged the son.  Still makes me screaming mad today.

 

An absolutely great comment.  Scouting is supposed to be one part of a rich childhood.  For us adult volunteers, we often get pulled in deep and it takes a lot of our personal time.  

I wonder if we could apply an analogy here.  Supposed you and your wife talked about being extremely tight with money all the time when the kids were around.  I guarantee you that kids pick up on that and start worrying and focused on the family money situation too.  Same with marriage issues.  If the parents are constantly arguing or disagreeing in front of the kids, the kids will pick up on that and their home-life becomes stressful and no-longer the safety net.  

I'd imagine it's the same for scouts.  If we are constantly diving deep into scouting as adult volunteers, it probably pulls our scouts too deep into "scouting" and they can experience burn out. 

"Scouting" is supposed to be just one part of a rich childhood.  I myself should probably have shielded my kids from all the scouting discussions and work even more then I did.  

 

 

It's hard to reconcile my great admiration for the Boy Scouts of America and their youth development program with the way my Scout has been treated.  He has a lot of ill feelings toward his leaders because of the way he was treated and just wants to be 'done'.  I understand why he feels this way but there is so much more to experience within the program.  It makes me sad.

When I was CC I had an active Committee Member step down because her son just didn't want her involved in Scouts anymore.  He was a Life Scout and wanted to get to Eagle without his mom involved.  I understood and respected her decision.

My own Scout was treated poorly by Scoutmasters who didn't appreciate my leadership and took it out on him rather than speak to me.    They would use monthly Committee meetings to get in snide comments about him and try to embarrass me but would never address anything with me one on one.  EVER.  I was asked to step into this role after a huge blow up in the Troop and I regret accepting it because of how terribly my Scout was treated.  The Scoutmasters' sons were treated like kings though!

When you're an active volunteer it doesn't end for you at the meeting.  Our kids hear a lot about Scouting (probably too much) and it can become all encompassing, which may contribute to their burnout.

However, I do believe that my Scout greatly benefitted from my involvement and knowledge of the program in endeavors outside of the Troop, where he excelled.  His OA leadership, NYLT and LLD training, and Religious Emblems helped him stay active and involved even when life in the Troop was difficult.  

Eagledad - I'm a Committee member who does not interact with the Scouts on a regular basis.  When the re-charter is done you check a box saying that each non renewing member has been contacted.  I will gladly reach out to a parent but don't you think the Scoutmasters have a responsibility or duty to call the Scouts to find out what is going on?  

Most 2020 crossovers never attended summer camp to 'seal the deal' on membership.  And those who crossed over with their Webelos den (as mrjohns2 rightly pointed out) may not have been interested in rejoining because they didn't do much due to COVID.    

Our Unit Leaders fail to reach out to the kids when they stop attending meetings & events (even prior to COVID).  I always asked the Scoutmasters around re-charter about members and they didn't know or care.  I would reach out to the parents but the Scout's relationship is with the Scoutmasters and they should  pick up a phone and find out what is going on with the Scout.  I know of one Scout who received a certificate for many years of perfect attendance with meetings and outings.  He suddenly stopped attending and not one person from the Troop reached out to find out why.  What does that say about us as an organization?  

23 hours ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

Last time a troop I was involved with did a physical visit to a city council meeting together, yes, at least two leaders were present.

One time I took three of my own children (one Scout, one Cub Scout, and one Girl Scout, at the time) to visit a city-council member and interview her. In that case, there was no other registered adult present, but I'm pretty sure there's an exception for a parent doing something with their own children.

At present my wife is also a registered leader, so we can be the "two adults" together at any meeting or activity. But GSUSA has a stronger rule: the two adults need to be unrelated.

Glad you are following the rules, however many still aren't. We volunteer for an organization under extreme scrutiny for serious abuses.  Yet we still have adult leaders who are very casual in adhering to  youth protection.   

We have had a few Eagle Scout fundraisers & projects where not one registered leader was present.  Our Scoutmaster likes to brag to our CO about all of these projects, but the CO is unaware of the lack of supervision and adherence to youth protection policy..  And some of these fundraisers & projects had a lot of non-Scouting volunteers (both youth and adult) participating too.

We also have issues every year for summer camp where this Scoutmaster registers the Troop and hides the fact that he never has enough registered leaders (or even YPT adults) to attend.  And it's not like an announcement is made for additional volunteers, either. He just does not respect the need for YPT and the possible risks. Unbelievable...

9 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

We've told out troop parents this weekend to expect BSA to be shut down this summer. Lot of disappointment and sadness, but that's where we are at.

I'm a realist and I respect your perspective.  We're not being told ANYTHING like that in our Council.

Our Council building, which is owned free and clear, is now being put up for sale in order for our Council to pay their portion of the settlement.  Our President made a short presentation when announcing the sale and overall it was positive in nature, with no hint of the Council and/or National not being able to survive all of the litigation.

And yet another to portray a Scout as a 'future school shooter' because of his interest in shooting and marksmanship.

Unfortunately The Boy Scouts of America has Scoutmasters who now tell their Scouts that they're 'not allowed' to go to shooting ranges.  One of our local Troops has an annual visit to a shooting range.  Another Troop does an annual  2nd Amendment trip for their 14 and older Scouts.  When my Scout suggested it to his PLC and one of the liberal ASMs, he was told that he didn't think they were allowed to go to gun ranges.  Uninformed or imposing his views on the Scouts?  What about the rifle and shotgun shooting merit badges that we offer?

Another Scout was a member of his school's riflery team.  When he talked about going to a range with a family member, one of the adult leaders took it upon himself to write to our COR about it, saying he was disturbed by it and that there's 'no place for gun discussions in Scouts'.   I wish I could say I was joking here but sadly I am not...

6 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

 

 

A lot of this has to be Covid impact, correct?  Are the 2020 numbers late 2020 or January 2020.  If they are January 2020 we are in SERIOUS trouble.  If late 2020, I think it will bounce back.

My other question is strategy going forward.  We have a lot of small units in my area.  All of us struggle to get enough volunteers.  Is it time for BSA councils to look through their unit lists and work with unit leaders on a consolidation plan? 

I am Scoutmaster for a Troop, CC and Den leader for a Pack.  I cannot and do not do all 3 of these well and my primary focus is as SM.  However, I cannot find anyone to volunteer for the other roles (I threatened to let the Pack die and came back at the 11th hour to recharter it when no one else stepped up).  My wife said Dec 2021 I should just let it die and move our daughter to a different pack.  That makes me sick as our Pack has been chartered for 84 straight years ... but I'm done.

At Klondike I talked with many leaders.  SMs who are CMs as well.  SMs, CC, CMs, DL combos.  Its simply not sustainable.  I do not believe we have the volunteer corp to support the number of units we have, let alone the number of districts and councils.  This is making our existing units weaker and leading to further loss.  I believe less units, councils and possibly districts could lead to a better program and then gains in numbers.  That will take BSA leadership making the right calls on what units are healthy and strong vs the weak.

 

I believe consolidating Units would be the way to go, however our DEs are evaluated on the number of Units in their District, so they will always consider quantity over quality.  Many people are also sentimental about their Charter Org. and their history and would rather exist with fewer members and less support before they would merge or join another Unit.  In my neighborhood alone three Packs have folded and a fourth is hanging on, mostly because they just celebrated their 60th anniversary. Getting volunteers has become so difficult that place holder names are being used in order to recharter.  I recently spoke to a Cubmaster who has zero help other than his wife.   It has become a very stressful burden on him to 'carry on the tradition' of his Pack.  In my own Troop we couldn't get a Scoutmaster to step up until discussions were initiated by the Charter Org. to shut it down.  How long can this go on without volunteers?

My Troop stayed at this camp when they did rock climbing at the Gunks.  Hope this helps.  https://koa.com/campgrounds/newburgh/

I have seen far too many Scouts slowed down because they 'have time'.  I have seen Scouts who weren't favored by their Scoutmaster maliciously delayed in their journey to Eagle.  If everyone followed the rules we wouldn't have these issues, but all Scouts aren't being given the same playing field and it unfortunately does lead to resentment.  

Late to the game here but my observation in my Scouting District is that the female Eagle Candidates have an incredible, committed support network of Scouters available to help them earn their Eagle on this short timeline.  Do I agree with the short timeline?  Not at all.  What I find truly upsetting is that the male candidates do not have this support.  They don't have the Unit and District Scouters cheering them on and making them a priority.  Many can't even get an email returned.  One of my Scouts has been waiting to hear from his District Eagle Coach for two months, despite following up twice.  In the younger Scouts, many haven't earned any advancement since 2019.  Where is the support network for them?  COVID has caused many volunteers to 'check out' and fast tracking these ladies when many boys are floundering has already caused resentment, particularly when the boys know that Council level volunteers are laying out the red carpet for their daughters...

Wow.  My Catholic Scout was at Yawgoog for two of those years.  This is so sad and disturbing.

We lost 10 Scouts at the Troop level - 25% of membership.  The Troop is heavy on the older boys, 8 of whom are either working on their Eagle project (or very close to it) or we would have lost more.

You absolutely should report it. Games of chance are not allowed.  If we expect the Scouts to follow the rules, then Troop leadership should too.

Good luck with the new Troop.  It amazes me how they are all run differently, and I hope it's a good experience for your Scout.

What can you say about this Scout's character other than these accusations?  Was this out of left field?  I would postpone the EBOR for as long as possible.

We had an Eagle candidate who was caught vaping at a Troop meeting.  Another Scout had told his parents and they called the Scoutmaster.  This Eagle candidate was a bully.  There is no other way to describe him.  He had been involved in incidents with racist, anti-Semitic behavior.  He often brought large knives to meetings, totally unnecessary for the activity or task at hand, and would menace certain Scouts.  Complaints were made to the Scoutmaster but nothing was ever done, nor was the Scout reprimanded in any way.

Why was this allowed?  Because this Scout was one of the Scoutmaster's favorites.  It came to light that the Scout had even been caught vaping on a camping trip by an ASM but it was never escalated.  Turns out the Scoutmasters were terrified of the Scout's father and feared physical violence against the Scout as a consequence.

So in the end the Scout's EBOR was postponed for three months.  His behavior at his own ECOH was a total embarrassment, but not out of character for this Scout.  

47 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

It's about money.  Pure and simple.

Yes, it is about money.  I cannot say that I am surprised about the number of claims.  I have escalated some serious issues to District AND Council and they were overlooked.  One in particular came back to bite them in the ass.  Had they taken action when I brought it up they could have avoided a serious situation and avoided hurting a Scout, his family, and some truly wonderful volunteers. 

I had a Scout reveal in his EBOR that two Scouts in his Troop with developmental issues were being bullied.  Was there any follow up?  Of course not.  I had a Scoutmaster with a drunk driving conviction who would drink on camping trips, use profanity with the Scouts, and would offer to 'give' Scouts merit badges if they did something for the Troop.  He was someone who was highly unethical, vindictive, and would only help Scouts that he liked.  Everyone knew it.  Is he still a registered leader?  Of course he is!  We had a parent call the COR to complain that her Scout had been systematically bullied by an ASM for years.  Other parents stepped forward and said they had witnessed it.  Was ANYTHING done?  No.  Is the ASM still a registered leader?  Of course he is!

Units run on their own with no oversight from a Commissioner or their Charter Org. and yet when problems/situations happen they are overlooked because the DE needs to show 'numbers' to his boss.  There's always a lot of talk but no action, much to the detriment of the Scouts.  They would rather keep a non performing Unit that is barely serving our youth rather than cut the cord and funnel the Scouts to better Units.  Stuff goes on that people know about but don't do anything about because 'we don't have enough volunteers' or "I'm afraid what the SM will do if I complain.  Little Johnny is so close to being Eagle', etc.  I could go on and on...

I am a merit badge counselor and a Committee member.  I am NOT reregistering this year.

In my experience, Scoutmasters quit because:

1. Their child(ren) have aged out

2. They can no longer take the conflict from fellow volunteers.

3. The low level of volunteerism causes them to be overworked.

4. The Scouts' parents are batshit crazy.

I was also told recently by a District person that other parents think it is 'creepy' when a volunteer stays in the Troop when they no longer have children in it.

In my experience, the many pleas for volunteers in the Troop went unanswered.  The long term Unit Commissioner had been absent, and didn't see any possible areas of concern because the Scoutmaster was 'one of my guys'.  In reality, the Unit was a mess.  Purportedly 'boy run' but the limited number of adults did everything.  The patrols and PLC were in name only.  And training?  What training?  Why bother when we've been doing it like this 'for years'?  

Who has the luxury of succession planning when you can barely keep a Unit above water?  So of course you give adults guilt and ultimatums to keep the Unit chartered.  And that's how you wind up with inappropriate candidates for adult leaders because no one else would step up...

Moot point?  Is it a moot point for the Scout who worked for years to complete this required merit badge?  Is it a moot point for the Council, who advised the Scoutmaster/Merit Badge Counselor that in their opinion, the requirements completed were acceptable?  Is it a moot point for the District Advancement Committee, who also advised the Scoutmaster/Merit Badge Counselor that the requirements completed were acceptable?  Is it acceptable that a supposed 'trusted adult leader' has lied to a Scout and now refuses to answer the young man?  

A global pandemic requires flexibility in order to encourage our Scouts to continue in the program. There are many ways to adapt while maintaining the integrity of the requirements, especially when you live in an area where camping has been PROHIBITED for the past seven months...

Sadly the Charter Org has known about the deterioration in program for more than a year, however no one would step up to take the Scoutmaster position.  The complaints were escalated to the CC, COR, and IH, so the correct procedure was followed.  As of this week the Unit is being dissolved and the Scoutmaster still will not respond to the Scout about his partial.  What a 'LEADER'...

As a merit badge counselor myself I find it very upsetting.  This merit badge counselor is very experienced and dedicated.  This made me wonder what I would do if someone reported me to District & Council when I was just following the guidelines?