gblotter

I'm not supportive of our troop purchasing new camping equipment because nobody feels ownership for taking care of it and it usually gets thrashed. For our campouts, the boys bring their own camping gear from home and that works out well. Our troop closet holds a hodge-podge of old camping gear that never gets used. Generally, it is stuff that families discarded. I will likely do a mass clean-out and throw most of it away.

Oh, dear - we certainly are a cranky bunch today.

Obviously, some changes are trivial (shoulder loop colors) and some are not (restructuring the program for girls). Responses should be proportional. When our opinions as volunteers are ignored and disregarded, it seems we have only two ways to object: with our feet and with our dollars. How else to send a message they will pay attention to?

@carebear3895 As a professional Scouter, you have a unique perspective. I'm curious to know your thoughts ... When BSA National makes membership decisions and program changes that are objectionable to many of us in the volunteer force (indeed, with complete disregard and defiance to our opinions), what do you think is the correct response we should have?

After earning his Arrow of Light, my son immediately registered as Boy Scout to start working on merit badges and rank advancement while waiting for his 11th birthday. Our Cub program shuts down at the end of the school year, and it made no sense to idle away an entire summer with no Scouting whatsoever. However, out of respect for our EYO leader, my son did not start attending patrol meetings until his 11th birthday. That seemed like an acceptable compromise for everyone. I make it a point to never cross the Primary President! - lol

I do not question the quality of Scouters in Wood Badge. I just know that I don't want to hang out with them - lol. I'd rather spend my Scouting time with the boys. Would I be better Scoutmaster with Wood Badge? Probably. Would I trade a weekend of camping with the boys for a weekend at Wood Badge? Definitely not.

You are, of course, correct. None except the BSA and LDS leaders can ultimately say what was their reasoning and motivation.

I expect booming sales in framed display cases to hold all those LDS Scout uniforms and patches. Buy stock now!

Same for me. How could someone be a dedicated Scoutmaster for 10+ years and not want to do Wood Badge? - lol

Nothing published yet. When LDS dropped Varsity and Venturing for older boys, it was replaced with a flexible church youth program that allows boys to pick from a wide variety of activities (sort of cafeteria style). Categories include spiritual, social, physical, and intellectual. What's missing are the badges and rank advancements (which some here decry as an impure motivation, anyway). If the new church youth program to replace BSA looks anything like that, I think we will be just fine. Eagle Scout will always hold a cachet separate from other youth programs.

That idea was actually proposed by some of our Scouts - just continue the troop but with a different chartering organization. While that sounds fine, I doubt we could find enough adult support without the push of the church behind it. For my own personal situation as Scoutmaster, I will exit BSA on 12/31/19 over disillusionment with the girl decision. The needs of boys now bow before the god of inclusiveness, and that feels like a betrayal. It's time for me to make way for a new kind of Scout and a new kind of Scouter and a new kind of Scouting.

I have been passionate about Scouting for my whole life, but my motivation is driven entirely from interaction with the boys. I know there are many Scouters out there who derive great personal satisfaction from their relationships with other Scouters. BSA seems almost like a fraternal order to them. This is going to sound terrible and I mean no offense to anyone on this forum, but I really hate hanging out with other Scouters. That is why I have always dodged things like Wood Badge. If a Scouting event is not centered on the boys, I'd rather spend my time at home remodeling my kitchen - lol. Once again - please forgive my offense with this honest confession.

When LDS parents send their son off to an event like National Jamboree, and then the boy returns home with stories of pervasive swearing (and other unScoutlike behaviors like patch stealing), it creates an impression that this is how Scouting works in a non-LDS setting. You can then understand a predictable level of concern over joining a non-LDS troop. In reality, the concern may unwarranted, but it is still understandable. To be completely honest, my son expressed interest in attending World Jamboree next summer, but we detoured that pursuit because of these kinds of issues encountered at National Jamboree.

Perhaps Jamboree was a unique situation because the boys were not being supervised by their regular Scoutmaster and other familiar adult leaders. The Jamboree contingent adult leaders were mostly strangers to the boys, so maybe the adults felt awkward stepping in and the boys felt bolder in defiance.

Glad to hear it. At National Jamboree, my son and his LDS buddy - their ears burned from the constant barrage of swearing from so many boys. They felt powerless in the situation because the adult leaders heard it but paid no attention - the swearing problem was pervasive. As you might imagine, that kind of stuff is completely foreign in an LDS troop, so it felt very strange to them to see it ignored by adult Scouting leaders.

Just curious - in your troop, would adult leaders proactively address incidents of pornography and swearing, or only if a Scout is courageous enough to step forward and voice a complaint (or not even then)?

One example from last night's committee meeting: A Webelos Scout who has already finished his Arrow of Light does not turn 11 until October. He has no path to Eagle before 12/31/19. A few other boys have very tight timelines. One missed deadline will derail their Eagle efforts unless they are willing to join a non-LDS troop in 2020. Personally, I hate the pressure of such deadlines (even when it is a looming 18th birthday) because of compromised standards and corrupted motivations. However, as Scoutmaster I am here to support these Scouts and their families to achieve whatever goals they have in Scouting.

The option of enrolling in a non-LDS troop exists for all our Scouts, and that idea was discussed in great detail during our committee meeting. A few boys may pursue that option if they miss the 12/31/19 deadline. When contemplating a non-LDS troop, there is some doubt/concern over respect for our beliefs (avoiding Sunday camping, etc). When my son attended National Jamboree last summer with mostly non-LDS Scouts, the adult Jamboree leaders for our council contingent were reluctant to address issues of swearing and pornography. Sure - Scouting is boy-led and all, but that kind of "hands off" attitude doesn't sit well with LDS parents (or their sons, for that matter). In LDS Scouting, the chartering organization relationship with the unit is anything but "hands off". There is a level of oversight, direction, and support that is perhaps hard to duplicate elsewhere.

LDS Scouting died in July 2015 when BSA announced its decision to admit gay adult leaders. The funeral was simply delayed due to the time required to formulate a replacement LDS youth program. After BSA's July 2015 vote, the strongly worded LDS response was shockingly candid in airing dirty laundry. "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is deeply troubled by today’s vote by the Boy Scouts of America National Executive Board. In spite of a request to delay the vote, it was scheduled at a time in July when members of the Church’s governing councils are out of their offices and do not meet. When the leadership of the Church resumes its regular schedule of meetings in August, the century-long association with Scouting will need to be examined. The Church has always welcomed all boys to its Scouting units regardless of sexual orientation. However, the admission of openly gay leaders is inconsistent with the doctrines of the Church and what have traditionally been the values of the Boy Scouts of America." Co-ed Scouting was a clumsy decision made out of financial desperation upon being notified internally of the LDS exit date. That explains the manipulative surveys to elicit coerced support for an unpopular decision, followed by a rushed announcement of a half-baked idea with few program details available. @The Latin Scot is absolutely correct in the way he articulates LDS views about gender and complementary roles, but BSA's girl decision did not trigger the LDS exit. The BSA girl decision was quite irrelevant by that point (i.e. do whatever you think is best to secure the future of your movement, because LDS is leaving regardless).

Last night, we had our first Troop Committee meeting since the announcement of LDS exit. As you might imagine, there was full attendance and the meeting ran long with discussion and speculation. The advancement plan for each of our 30 boys was discussed in detail. With a hard deadline of 12/31/19, the trail to Eagle now suddenly feels a lot more serious (even ominous) to our Scouting families. For some of these boys, just one misstep or missed date will derail their train. One parent was very sad because their son has no chance to finish Eagle before the deadline. We discussed the difficult financial position of BSA National and its recent desperate moves to admit girls. Our troop has a lucrative annual troop fundraiser that we will run one more time to fund our Scouting activities to the end of 2019. Any leftover money (unlikely) will be donated to FOS on 12/31/19. One Assistant Scoutmaster spoke postively about the prospect of him joining a non-LDS troop. One boy has already decided he will join the non-LDS troop of his OA buddies in order to continue his OA lodge membership. One parent hoped the council/district would sponsor some sort of outreach expo for LDS Scouting families to learn more about the surrounding non-LDS troops. However, most families acknowledged that their Scouting journeys will end on 12/31/19. The next 18 months will be an extremely busy time, and we plan to take our troop out with a bang - not a whimper. Several big blow-out Scouting adventures are being contemplated for summer 2019.

I relate to the "Scouting Addict" label. With three generations of Eagles, I used to joke that Scouting was part of our family DNA. My breaking point was realizing that all levels of Scouting will be moving to co-ed except the individual troop unit. Everything else (every district, council, national event - including summer camps) will be co-ed. BSA's promise of a parallel girl program is yet another lie. Seeing all the new BSA promotional materials focused on girls, it's clear that boys are being left out in the cold in this new "Family Scouting". Boys' needs now take a back seat to inclusion, and that feels like a betrayal. Anyone who disagrees with BSA's new co-ed direction is branded as "unScoutlike" and a "conditional Scouter". While disagreeable, I could swallow the changes for gay/trans because those decisions change very little in a practical way. The decision about girls will change everything. Liberals/progressives will cheer these social victories, but they won't replace the departing conservatives/traditionalists who will vote with their feet and dollars. Abandonment of God is next. In a decade, we won't even recognize this movement. I do not have an optimistic vision of BSA's future. The girl decision won't halt BSA's membership declines any more than gay/trans did. More boys will be lost than girls gained for a net loss of membership. When girls are not attracted in sufficient numbers, more changes will follow to make Scouting more "family-friendly", all while the boys continue to walk away into the arms of the video game culture. BSA's financial desperation will worsen due to huge debts for The Summit. I predict some sort of bankruptcy reorganization in the next decade with possible sale of assets. I am an LDS Scouter with two terms (10+ years) as Scoutmaster. Service at the district level, too. I will exit BSA along with our troop of 30 boys on 12/31/2019. Consideration of me joining a non-LDS troop is out of the question due to BSA shifting its focus away from boys. My Eagle Scout son has had an amazing Scouting adventure with 6 palms, 50+ nights of camping, 150+ miles of hiking, 6 BSA summer camps, National Jamboree, plus Order of the Arrow. I'm so glad that he could experience the best of traditional Scouting before all these changes, and I'm thrilled that I could come along for the ride. We are the kind of "unScoutlike" and "conditional Scouter" family that has been alienated. It's all very sad.

God will be gone from BSA soon enough, but that won't halt BSA's decline anymore than gays/trans/girls did. With the departure of conservatives/traditionalists, BSA will become the Scouting choice of liberal/progressive families (who have fewer children). That doesn't represent a broad enough membership pool to sustain the movement. Given the huge debt load for The Summit, I honestly don't see a future for BSA. I expect we'll see some sort of bankruptcy reorganization within the next decade, with possible sale of assets.

Parallel Scout organizations are not what is being implemented. Local troops can remain single-gender, but everything else in BSA (every national, council, district event) is moving to co-ed. Where is the parallel organization?

Re-orient Scouting toward building manly self-confidence (ala Jordan Peterson) to attract more boys and shed BSA's wimpy image. Young men require a physical challenge to feel accomplishment - a rite of passage. Revamp the Eagle-required merit badge list: Less bookwork - more adventure. Drop Env Science, Communication. One citizenship MB should be sufficient. Instead of Swimming OR Hiking OR Cycling, how about Swimming AND Hiking AND Cycling. Make Wilderness Survival MB required. In addition to an Eagle Scout Service Project, add an Eagle Scout Outdoor Adventure Project to the requirements. Let natural competition kick in to see which Scout can craft the greatest outdoor adventure on his path to Eagle. BTW: Introducing girls into the program is the antithesis of everything mentioned above.

Perhaps it is better to actually read MIke Rowe's response. He is not against girls in Scouting. Rather, he doesn't think inclusiveness is going to fix what is wrong with Scouting. "So I’m not opposed to building a program within Scouting for girls. But I am very worried about the future of Scouting in general."