gblotter

20 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

I like this quote about her:

"She thinks the boys need to respect and learn how to work with women"

Of course boys need to respect and learn how to work with women. Who disagrees with that? These days, boys are surrounded by women in every aspect of there lives. During 7 years of schooling, my son has had a grand total of one male teacher so far. You don't think the idea of working with women as his superiors is getting pounded into his head hard enough yet? The great thing about Scouting was that boys could learn from male role models (for a change) as they negotiate a path through life. *sigh*

I have the opposite problem.

Our DE seems to be a nice guy who has general knowledge of who I am and what our troop does. However, I have no idea who he is.

I was in the Scout office doing some paperwork. The DE approached me and greeted me by name. Clueless, I had to take note of his name badge and later look online to see who he was and what position he held. I'm not a great people person, so that doesn't help either.

He sees our Eagle applications cross his desk, and our troop recently hosting the annual District Awards Dinner, so that is probably how he knows me.

9 hours ago, Gwaihir said:

I really wouldn't be surprised if the Lenni Lanape Lore that is at the foundation of the Order is dropped entirely in 5 years.  

I previously knew almost nothing about OA. A few weeks ago, I attended induction weekend with three of my Scouts. It was a meaningful event for all of us. However, when observing the various Indian-themed ceremonies, the first thing to enter my mind was "this piece of cultural appropriation won't be around for much longer". I agree - it will surely be dropped soon (heck - I'm frankly surprised it has endured so long in this PC era). I'm glad we could experience it before it's gone.

7 minutes ago, FireStone said:

if they find themselves needing to use the condoms available at Jambo that the might also find themselves not in the BSA anymore.

That sounds like a simple enough message to convey. I hope that gets communicated clearly to BSA participants and also their parents, but I have my doubts. Our ideas on this forum really mean nothing - it's not like we are writing the script that will be used in pre-Jambo meetings. Do past WSJ participants on this forum recall if this topic (the differences between WOSM and G2SS) was ever mentioned at all? I'll bet not.

I can only speak about the experience of my son at National Jamboree last year where the adult contingent leaders from our council were extremely hands-off in addressing behavior issues that arose. That is the single biggest reason why we have dismissed the possibility of him attending WSJ.

2 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Adult leaders and youth members have a responsibility to recognize, respond to, and report Youth Protection violations and abuse.

It seems G2SS applies at WSJ only when it does not conflict with WOSM requirements. BSA contingent leaders at WSJ are required by WOSM to notify Jamboree participants about condom availability. But then those same BSA contingent leaders at WSJ should also notify those same Jamboree participants that actually using those condoms could land them in big trouble with G2SS rules. Is that what you are saying?

2 minutes ago, Cambridgeskip said:

WOSM, when setting central policy, has to get something that everyone can live with and I think that having them available via medical facilities is about right.

How about this for a central policy: If you want condoms for your national contingent attending WSJ, bring them with you and distribute them to your Scouts as you see fit. That seems more adaptable, more flexible, and less oppressive.

24 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Feels to me like we're essentially at the same place.  We just disagree on whether the BSA should participate or not.

I disagree that BSA is powerless to influence WOSM on this issue, but Irving won't take a stand because it would draw attention to condoms and sex at Jamboree (doh - too late for that now).

Here's an idea: How about BSA start "acting like a Boy Scout" and just say no to condoms at WSJ and let WOSM deal with it. Such a move might actually attract positive press for a change (something Irving is unequipped to deal with).

29 minutes ago, JoeBob said:

I'm still wondering what landmine we triggered in the other topic.

There were some rather cavalier remarks (mostly made as jokes) about Scouts using condoms and having sex during Jamboree and other Scouting events. Even though made in jest, such comments by adult Scouters about randy Scouts would not weather scrutiny if printed in a newspaper article. I chucked at some of those quite clever posts, but I'm glad they were removed.

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Me - I'd say yes.  The experience of a WSJ is significant enough that attending is worth the exception for these cases.

Me - I'd say no. I would prefer my son experience those things in the setting of a National Jamboree where G2SS rules apply.

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Further, the BSA should make it crystal clear to a participant from within the BSA that the rules are different.  Make parents sign a document stating that they are aware of this difference.

This is one area of complete agreement. Scouting families should have it spelled out to them in clear language the specific differences in behavior standards between BSA G2SS and WOSM - and it is a great idea to make parents sign a document about such. However, my bet is that BSA avoids all mention of this because they don't want to depress attendance at the event (for their own financial motivations).

4 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

They are the authorizing body. BSA doesn't get a WSJ without WOSM. We want the game, we play by their rules. 

Is that really a difficult concept?

So to be clear ... G2SS rules do not apply at WSJ and sexual activity between Scouts at that event does not need to be reported?

1 minute ago, FireStone said:

It's not ideal. It's not G2SS compliant. But it's a preventative health measure for a problem that is going to exist no matter how much we try to prevent it from happening.

In summer 2019, girl troops and boy troops will start attending BSA summer camps at the same time. Following your logic, should condoms be made available to Scouts by camp staff (regardless of what G2SS says)? Or should G2SS be changed to permit sexual activity at Scouting events?

6 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

The difficulty is that the US BSA doesn't have to host an event that goes against it's own laws and policies.

The problem is that BSA is over a financial barrel because of Summit debts. BSA absolutely needs to host events like WSJ in an effort to pay the bills. Once again, principles are subjugated to expediency.

3 hours ago, Pale Horse said:

I'm not entirely sure how well this tin-foil hat plan meshes with those that say BSA leadership has terrible vision and planning ability, but if there's one thing I've learned over the years it is that conspiracy theories don't necessarily need a whole lot of logic to be believed. 

By now we should all realize that BSA National leadership is too inept to carry out any kind of long game conspiracy. That would require a level of competency that is clearly absent.

3 hours ago, FireStone said:

Otherwise this is just a cover for being upset about the membership policy changes.

One more log on the fire is a better analogy.

Rather than blame the messenger (media outlets), why not blame (and change) the WOSM policy that makes Scouting a vulnerable target for criticism? And some blame should be appropriately focused on BSA for acting as if they have no leverage over WOSM on the issue.

2 minutes ago, Peregrinator said:

Not that playing games on Sundays is bad, just that it interferes with church, family, and leisure time.

This is a common struggle faced by most LDS families I know.

37 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

the demographic statistics would suggest that she is going to grow up to be one of nasty progressive liberals too.

I'm sure your granddaughter will be adorable and not nasty at all (except during the terrible 2s).

41 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Interesting how you can extrapolate a conclusion about large groups of people from what I say about TWO people (my daughter and my other daughter's husband)

Statistically, liberals have smaller families and conservatives have larger families. That's not me extrapolating a conclusion from your daughter and her husband - it's just a fact of demographics.

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=2344929&page=1

30 minutes ago, qwazse said:

What I'm not understanding ... will the new youth program occupy more than one night? E.g., will it be one night plus monthly (or more frequent) Friday-Saturday activities tailored to each sex?

LDS youth programs involve one weeknight each week, plus the occasional weekend activity. A week-long summer camp, youth conference, or other outdoor activity is also typical.

2 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

My church has a youth group - so do many.  That doesn't prevent the kids from being interested in Scouting.

I get that in general the LDS community is more insular.  But don't LDS kids play baseball, soccer, fencing, etc...

BTW - I'm not suggesting that Scouting will get a large percentage of LDS kids - just wondering if it will be similar in number to other denominations.

For LDS families, Scouting will compete with many other activities, including sports, music, drama, and school clubs. Our church youth program generally occupies one night a week. My own family always gives careful consideration to overscheduling on the other nights. It a difficult balancing act to decide between many good choices.

4 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

The LDS Church is not just dropping Scouts, they are replacing them.

BSA may get a slice of the pie short term as the young men try to finish Eagle.  Long term, I am afraid they will only get crumbs. 

I concur. A key deterrent for LDS families will be the Sunday activity program of many non-LDS packs and troops.

We actually investigated a non-LDS pack for my son back in the day. They had an attractive and energized program, but every premier event (Pinewood Derby, Raingutter Regatta, Rocket Launch, etc) was scheduled on Sundays. Regretfully, we had to say no.

11 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I'm sure some folks from an LDS background will embrace girls in Cub Scouts.  They'll look at the program on it's merits and choose.

Actually, thinking about it, I don't see why lots of LDS wouldn't check out Cub Scouts for girls.  Now that it's becoming just another extra curricular activity why wouldn't they?

Could be.

My son had a great experience in Cub Scouts, but aside from that I’m rather detached from the program. I view Cubs as a fun activity program but mostly lacking in substance as compared to Boy Scouts. I feel no particular emotion about girls entering the Cub Scouts.

It’s a completely different story with girls entering the Boy Scout program. Enough has already been said there.

1 minute ago, NJCubScouter said:

I have a step-granddaughter who is of Cub Scout age and I have mentioned to my son-in-law (the girl's father) that she is (or soon will be) eligible to join the Cub Scouts, but his reply was basically that he is an atheist and is not interested in having his daughter in an organization that would not have him as a member.  He doesn't seem very interested in having her being a Girl Scout either.  I think it's kind of a shame, but she is not my child, nor my child's child, for that matter.  (I do have a grandson living 3,000 miles away from me, whose mother apparently still has not forgiven the BSA for banning gay people, even though they don't anymore.

This sounds about like what I would expect.

BSA attempts to conform to liberal social values will not halt membership declines. Activists will always have another ax to grind. Any gains from liberal/progressive families (who generally have fewer kids) will not be enough to replace the losses from conservative/traditionalist families who quit the movement.

May I suggest that this tangent discussion belongs over in the Issues and Politics section?

6 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

he is doing EVERYTHING he can to ensure his LDS granddaughter can be a scout.

His LDS granddaughter could always be a Scout. It's called Girl Scouts USA.

6 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

I found the dichotomy very interesting but did not press for deeper details.

Yes - interesting.

Not every LDS Scouter thinks as I do.

Not every non-LDS Scouter thinks as you do.

10 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

A District Director manages District Executives.  It's a first line management position.

A difference without a distinction in our case.

Our district has a District Director but no District Executive.

What's the difference between a District Director and a District Executive? Our council has a mix of both positions.

Is a District Director an unpaid District Executive?

7 hours ago, Chris1 said:

And the option of moving the troop to a new CO and continue running it the same way. And there are always concerns about enough volunteers, but it can work.

Possible, but unlikely. Under that scenario, our troop would need to find a new Scoutmaster. I will be ready to exit BSA on 12/31/19. I'm quite disillusioned over BSA's girl decision. This new Family Scouting is not for me.