Back Pack

It sounds like the intent is to ask the scout what he did. If he didn’t plan the event and get it approved then the counselor shouldn’t have signed off. Wouldn’t the sm be within the rules to disallow the mb? From what Flagg posts it looks like yes.

I tried the ASM route but it’s hard no longer being with your buds. And I didn’t fit in with the adults. It’s more depressing than anything. You have a constant reminder of what you can’t have. Since my troop is big on adults sipping coffee and staying out of our hair there’s not a lot for a 19 year old to do.

It’s pretty easy. If he’s still under 18 you can work on Boy Scout ranks and awards in addition to Venturing awards. If he’s over 18 then he works on Venturing awards only. Wiki is pretty good. Program awards are easy and are based on planning and event execution among other things. Expert level awards are sort of like merit badges but can be pretty intense to complete. On my crew few guys work on the awards since they made Eagle. The girls tend work on the awards more than the guys. Let me know if you have any questions. I can give you an idea of how the youth think about these things. I like it because it’s run like a club.

 

https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Venturing_Award

I’ve asked this before but why can’t scouting do their own survey? I know someone said it’s like 15 bucks a person but that can’t be right for a do your own survey. Scouting reached out to 300k plus people previously and I can’t find any reference to 5m being spent on a survey in the annual report. I’ve looked back to 2012 and can’t find it.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/03/14/voice-of-the-scout-membership-policy-survey-questions-give-scouters-parents-a-chance-to-be-heard/amp/

The short answer is that it is at the discretion of the MBC.  SM has no say.

 

Here is an official answer for BSA:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/04/30/ask-expert-mbs/

But the SM can challenge the mbc crediting of the requirement if there’s no way the scout could have done all of the requirements. Like pointed out above it’s not jus emceeing it’s planning and a bunch more so the mbc can’t give credit for the full requirement, only partially unless all the rest was done too. I think the advancement guide says how an SM can challenges an mbc. Our sm has to do that one.

To respond to all at once, they know about merit badges, but they want nothing to do with it. I figured if we gave them a “step by step†(or something like that) so to say,

The CC really wants us to do a presentation... Funny thing is, we have most of our troop MBCs have most eagle required ones (before someone says it’s no good, the MBCs have no Scouts in the troop). They are willing to help them but refuse to do a troop “classâ€, which is great because I hate them too.

Then, at the COH last night we were talking about how all scouts that aged out have earned eagle, then the new scouts say “Guess I’m breaking itâ€, so they have no motivation either. But, they want to earn it so it’s a big cluster of issues.

They like the activities and camping better and doesn’t want to do the MBs, advancing, etc. (who doesn’t?)

As a recent scout I’d offer a few thoughts. First, why is the CC saying anything to the scouts? That’s the SM’s role. Second, the handbook provides a good route for how to begin the mb process. Third, any handout you develop might discuss the virtues of doin an mb on your own (with a buddy as the book says), in a Troop class, at summer camps or at a mb event like a college or something like it. Our plc even had the process on the sheet. But you don’t need a presentation or big book. A sheet that summarizes the process and mb options is fine and links up nicely with the handbook.

Given how this thread is going I thought this was appropriate.

 

https://www.facebook.com/JukinVideo/videos/1365569390197994/

With respect, my reply was to Flagg. There is nothing you should infer about your original comment and my response to Flagg. They are two different comments and should not be conflated to be the same thing.

 

Flagg was stating that Boy scouts should not change because 100 years of tradition - that it has always been boys only. I replied to him to illustrate that, "we have always done it this way" is not necessarily a valid reason to keep a policy - that BSA used to exclude people of color, then BSA changed.

 

 

 

I don't see how you can talk about one form of segregation and not see correlations to others. It isn't a straw man to bring up the fact that BSA used to be segregated by color and no longer is.

 

But, I digress. I think we have beat this particular horse enough.

I believe Flagg said 100 years of Boy Scouts for boys. YOU brought up segregation. That’s a straw man.

I am amazed at how anyone can take my position of Boy scouting being only for boys and twist it to being only for white boys. I think I said we couldn’t put the genie back in the bottle. That reference was about all the recent changes.

 

By the way bringing segregation in to your response to Flagg’s last reply is a text book staw man argument. I’m speechless at how argumentative you guys are. Hard to believe you’re Scout leaders.

Guys I don’t profess to have all the answers. Heck I can only speak for me and maybe give insight in to what my friends are thinking. I feel a bit like the only coed at a frat party being the one of a few recent Eagles on this thread and getting all this attention. I’d love to reply to everyone and really get deeper in to this but I’ve got way too much studying to do.

 

My model would be cubs do family stuff. That’s how it worked when I was in cubs anyway. Boy Scouts is for boys. Venturing is coed. Adults drink coffee, pay bills, oversee safety and let us fail and make mistakes. Stop running merit badge colleges, adult patrols and taking over our events. Let us lead the way we know how. Limit teaching to after we make the mistake. Be patient when we struggle or are being stupid. Try to remember what you were like before you got old, responsible and over thought everything.

 

Late for psychology. There’s a joke in there somewhere.

Voting security (no Russians  ),  logistics, and cost aside ... Could you see OA running the vote?

 

When you say membership would vote, is this every Cub Scout and Boy Scout? Is it their Scout parents? Is it young and old scouters in those units?

 

The region(s) with the most voters will decide. My understanding that would be the West - Utah, California, Texas... What if New England sees their votes are pointless and spins off their own Scout organization?  What happens to CO's who feel they should decide membership of units they own?

 

Would you revisit past controversial membership decisions? 

 

More deja vu - 60's high school civics.

Youth vote. No parents or adults. Honor system. Or do it at the unit level like OA. I’d trust them more the parents. The point is the boys would decide. It’s their organization. The whole Boy Scout system is supposed to be around two key aims: character and citizenship. What could be more leader like than to make such decisions. And no I would not revisit old decisions unless they strengthened the program and the referendum voted for it. As my dad says, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. I am afraid we are stuck with this mess and the problems coming. I just wanted you guys to know that the youth know what happened and in my unit we are not okay with it.

I see just the opposite, units doing activities "outside of scouting".  Not unlike if Mom won't let you, ask Dad. 

This is true. Our crew will go as a church group rather than a crew for paintball, laser tag and a few other things. We don’t wear our crew shirts but we all know it’s a crew event, just not officially.

Just curious, do you have any examples?

If what I have read here and researched recently is true the membership changes in the last few years were against membership wishes but voted on by their representatives at higher levels. Yes I get that it’s not necessarily a representative government type system in bsa, but maybe that’s the problem. No one feels accountable to we the people who are paying the dues. Being honest paying that additional money hurt this year and I’m not sure I will do it next year. Many guys and girls in the crew are tired of the politics. It’s easier to go to the student union and rent gear and just hang out and camp together.

You asked me to make a decision. Have a referendum and abide by the result. Put each scout on their honor that it’s them making the decision and not their helicopter parents. But I would have to make the decision because that’s how my parents raise me. That’s what I learned as jasm and SPL. You are trained to make decisions and execute them That’s the reason all the adults volunteer in scouting right? For us to take charge? I think many adult are actually in it for themselves rather than to let youth ead but that’s a another issue.

 

As csb I would ask another question, why change at all? What’s broken that adding girls fixes?

There’s a clear difference of what many older adults here feel and what I am hearing on the ground from guys in the program. Guys 18 and older don’t mind girls in venturing. I’d say 90% or more of the guys I know under 18 in Boy Scouts don’t want girls or family anywhere near their Troop. I know guys who are simply going to work on Eagle on their own and take minimal leadership roles and just Eagle out.

 

What you guys who run units want and what the guys in your unit want may be a lot further apart than you think.

Since I’ve been paying attention to bsa politics I have seen very few times where what they say is what they do. So I don’t think I will believe what they say now about girls in scouts until is really see it.

We camped at a haunted house. It was pretty fun and unsettling at the same time.

The real reason? Threefold:

 

• Fun! Young girls are having fun with the program in a way that they have never done before. Some of us scouters like seeing kids have fun, plain and simple.
• Maverick units are making it work. Meanwhile boys in the vicinity seem to be doing as well as ever. Disavowing these units is becoming a losing proposition. Even units who would remain all boys resent a heavy hand from National.
• Nowadays, parents write the checks. They see the Mavericks and say, "With or without you, what will it be?"

Yes, membership matters, money matters. But, the real impetus here, IMHO, is girls with a unique initiative having so much fun with this program above others that they can no longer be ignored.

I can understand this. But couldn’t all that be done without dismantling Boy Scouts? I’m in Venturing now and we have great fun but the guys under 18 in the group wouldn’t be caught dead in a coed scout troop. I’ve had fun the last two years in scouting and I’d support younger girls and guys being allowed in Venturing. I just don’t support changing Boy Scouts and making it more family like. I get plenty of family time from church and other activities. My friends feel the same. I’ll say that even the girls in our crew don’t want their brothers in the crew.

Do you count your meeting location as a place where a scout can satisfy the campout requirement?

We have a troop in our area that camped at their charter org site which was essentially a Park (no trees). They counted that as a camp out to get their gold unit award. Pretty lame and only 20 of their 75 Scouts attended. Five guys from that Troop quit and joined my troop. My troop would never camp on our property. Unless my unit has a wooded or remote plot of land we wouldn’t count t as camping. Might as well Camp in our backyard.

Back Pack, how do you see that being structured and operated? I’m curious because I am always interested in being more boy-led, but there are issues I am struggling to see how, what I think you are proposing, working.

Sorry for the late reply...mid terms.

 

Rather than quote everyone who replied I’ll address this question and please guilty to missing the old man humor going on here.

 

If I was asked to design a boy led organization it would be to elect national and regional youth leaders for a one year term. These scouts would determine governance, financial and program issues with the advice and counsel of trained adults...much like troops should be run. Wide reaching changes in things like membership or program would be put to a referendum among registered youth. Adults would serve in the background like they should in Troops. The boys would run the show. Decisions like barring water balloons would have to meet a reasonableness test. In other words what logical reason would you bar a balloon based on its size but yet allow Scouts to play GaGa ball without pads and eye ware? (That’s youth humor)

 

It’s not a perfect solution but it beats a group of old guys who think they have their fingers on the pulse of what today’s youth really want. If anyone wonders what we talk about when adults aren’t around it’s how lame some things are that adults put out there for us to do.

We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive.

 

@@Back Pack Don't trust anyone over 30.

Some of the folks here talk a great game about Boy led but when it comes to issues like the future of Scouting you don’t trust them? I smell hypocracy. Either you believe in Boy led and the patrol method or you don’t. If you’re not willing to put the decision of who scouts let in to Scouting you then maybe such people should open their own over 30 adult scouting group and you make your own rules.

It costs about $15 per person to do an e-mail survey, $30 per person to do a mail survey.   Do you want to sell Philmont or Seabase?

What? This doesn’t require hiring some New York advertising firm. You can ask a few simple questions with unique identifiers. Heck my dad says he already as do e a few of these on other issues. I highly doubt those were $15 a person. One user id per bsa member number. Winner gets to pick the rules. It’s better than having a bunch of old adults who think they know what boys want.

Actually, the National Chief (OA) is on the board, as well as 3-4 more youth. I think the National VOA President is one of those. Not sure how the others are selected.

Ok. So survey the other 2.1m of us. It’s our organization and not some old guys in Dallas or wherever.

I was a Scout since 2009 and no one asked us who or what we wanted in our program. Wouldn’t it be nice if young men were elected to national office in scouting to make decisions for the rest of us under 21? It seems wrong to have guys in their 50s (no offense) to try to imagine what it’s like to be 15 these days. They can’t possibly understand that I don’t want my sister anywhere near my scouting activities. Ask my mom if it’s easier on her to drop off both of us at the same place or if she even cares. Every other day of the week we’re being shuttled across town. One more shuttle run won’t make a difference. Having my sister on the same camp out will certainly cause me to think hard about continuing in scouting.

Wish I could fix software; you should be able to change your own vote.      Anyway used my vote to help correct.

 

Thanks. I tried to change it but when I click on the rep box it only tells me who has voted. Doesn’t allow me to change it. Thanks for having my back.