Ankylus

We just returned from Philmont yesterday.

 

One of our crews had a scout who nearly lost an eye to a limb after retrieving a bear bag in the dark. (One observation this time is that Philmont consistently chooses the bears over the scouts. Another is that some of the back country staff are getting arrogant.) We are still waiting to see how badly the eye is damaged. He apparently won't  lose the eye, but will lose the tear duct. He's 14....that's a long time with a dry eye. 

 

Our sister crew climbed the Tooth of Time to spread the ashes of two ASMs who were killed at Northern Tier last year when a tree fell on their tent and crushed them to death. Never heard about that one anywhere.

 

We also were discussing tent placement when someone mentioned the the Philmont incident two years ago where the scout drowned in the flash flood. Our ranger (who I liked a lot) several times said during that discussion, "We don't like to talk about that here."

 

I think a lot of this is actually suppressed.

I do believe my oldest son's first patrol leader was the son of a billionaire. The father was at the time a CEO of a major corporation you would know the name of and is now currently CEO of another very large corporation. He was also on the national Board of Directors for the Boy Scouts of America as well as a couple of other Fortune 50 companies. The mother is from a wealthy family and went to Punahou School with President Obama. If they weren't billionaires, then I don't know any.

 

There were, in fact, several millionaires' children in that troop.

 

And there is a troop where this city's wealthiest elite go to church and school. That troop has 256 scouts in it. I am willing to bet you can find at least one in that troop.

 

I am willing to bet it happens more than we know of if only because there are lots of billionaires and their families who fly below the radar. They're not all Paris Hiltons and Kim Kardashians. The general public just isn't much interested in the wholesome kid going off to scout camp.

Thank you, both for the link and the kind words. We will see to this.

This morning I attended the funeral of one of our first year scouts who died tragically on a family vacation. The family asked the troop members and leaders to wear their uniforms to the funeral. His death will be a loss to the troop and not just his family. He was a good scout and will be missed.

 

We will probably do something at the troop level, like hang up a memorial in the scout house or something like that.

 

My question is whether there is some kind of posthumous or honorary award, recognition, rank advancement or something like that available from within the scouting program? The family would really like that, I think.

Texas? If so, they pulled out near me too. One of the largest Baptist churches in my area (think live Nativity scene every Xmas) kicked out it's Cubs and Boy Scouts. Church of Christ did the same thing.

 

Yes. Houston. There are a LOT of Baptist churches within 20 miles of me. Church of Christ....no doubt...as well as the other Pentecostal denominations. But in general, Pentecostal denominations aren't even as strong as supporters as the Baptists were.

None of that is "program".

 

OK. As a term of art, you are correct. I was using it in the vernacular sense. I concede that  point. What about the rest of the points I raise?

You're perhaps forgetting that girls are appealing to boys ;-)  And that the model has worked in pretty much every other country with a Scouting organization.

 

 

 

Well, sounds like your mind is already made up.

 

It's so easy to blame abstract (and usually fictional) ideology when the truth is rather hard to digest.  Youth who are active in Scouting of their own free will are in Scouting because the like the program, they like participating in the program with their friends, they like the challenge and opportunity the program offers.  And, most importantly, they have units in their area which deliver this high quality program. Youth who take a pass on scouting do so because either they aren't interested in the program, or they don't have local access to a unit that delivers the kind of program they are interested in.  The "3Gs" really don't come up when you ask the youth what about Scouting they do or do not like.  It's all about program.

 

Tip O'Neill is credited with saying, "all politics is local" - and I think that's a good metaphor for what we're seeing in Scouting.  Its easy for us, as adults, to blame (or credit, depending on your position) big-picture ideology for Scoutings' success or failures.  But, in reality, when it comes to actually serving youth, the biggest impact is you as a unit-level leader, what you bring to the table, and what program you deliver.

 

No, I am not forgetting that girls are appealing to boys. And we all know that boys have no other place they can meet girls. Not in school, not in church, not at the ballpark, nope...no place at all to meet girls in this culture.

 

The old, "well, everyone else is doing it", excuse. No dispute that every other scouting program is doing it in the world. (Not precisely accurate, but close enough.) (1) we shouldn't be interested in being like everyone else, (2) we shouldn't care what everyone else is doing--we should care what works for our children, (3) it may work, but would it work better otherwise?

 

What do you think my mind is made up about?

 

There is nothing abstract or fictional about the political left. Or did you think Hillary Clinton ran as a Republican? I agree with the rest of that paragraph.

 

"All politics is local." First, that cuts directly against your point that "the model has worked in pretty much every other country with a Scouting organization.". Please be consistent.  But I don't blame any particular ideology for Scouting's success or failure. I "blame" BSA's response to that ideology's attacks on the program BSA provides. The rest of that I mostly agree with, except to the extent that what program I deliver is controlled and determined by BSA, unless I choose to deliver only a BSA-based program. So the "local" sentiment is nice and all, but misplaced.

Ok Ankylus, you have made several statements now about the "left", "leftists" etc. Please explain how you think the program has been affected by "pressure from the political left."

 

And also please provide a source for the idea that the Baptists have "left" Scouting. I am sure some did leave, but I am not aware that they have "left" as an official policy.

 

Here are three ways: the acceptance of openly gay leaders, the admission of openly gay boys, and the admission of "trans boys".

 

My source is my personal observation. Every Baptist church within 20 miles of where I sit did not recharter within 2 years of the acceptance of gay leaders.

 

Also, although not as strong as my statement:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/31/us/boy-scouts-transgender-policy.html

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/life/faith/2013/06/05/some-churches-severing-ties-to-boy-scouts-over-allowing-gay-youths

 

https://baptistnews.com/article/churches-drop-boy-scout-ties/

 

And I didn't say it was an official policy. The  Baptists do not have a national "policy setting" group like LDS or the Roman Catholic church.

Not true.  We are chartered by a Baptist church and I receive emails from national Baptist organizations (even though I'm not Baptist) reconfirming their commitment and their value in the scouting program.

 

OK. All I know is that every Baptist church within perhaps 20 miles of where I am sitting did not recharter their troops. Maybe its different where you are. But they certainly pulled out here.

I often think that the unofficial mission of National on an individual employee basis is job security. When you've got more years left in your working life than the company you work for has left (based on membership decline rates), your motivation can quickly become one of self-preservation. 

 

Agreed, whole heartedly. 

I'd challenge the suggestion that the LDS represents "key members."  At least around here, the LDS represents numbers on paper, and probably some revenue.  But these kids aren't the ones participating in the program, patronizing council properties and events, purchasing uniforms and such...

 

If I told every committee chairman in my council that our Varsity Teams were shutting down, 99% of them would say, "huh? Who cares?"  Now I get that this is a much bigger deal deeper in the heart of LDS territory... but I still think we're not really talking about the core target market here.

 

And if the local councils in the affected areas were smart, they'd be bending over backwards to identify new COs (or even supporting the starting of "Friends Of..." organizations) to charter replacement units to provide a seamless transition for those affected LDS scouts who do wish to participate in the Scouting program.

 

But my strong suspicion here is, these events just bring the BSA's membership numbers more in line with the numbers of "real" scouts and "real" units who actively participate in Scouting programs.  Its true, its a "loss," but I think more accurately its a "correction."

 

To me the loss of LDS is not remarkable so much for the loss in membership or revenues as it is two other factors.

 

The first is that as BSA continues succumbing to pressure from the political left to change it's program, it will continue to alienate a lot of it's faith-based partners. The Baptists left a couple of years ago. LDS is starting to leave. And there is another thread about how some Roman Catholic dioceses are booting the Girl Scouts for moving to far to the left, and I don't believe they will hesitate to do the same to BSA. 

 

The second is that this, in turn, will cause BSA to panic about loss of membership and revenue and make further ill-advised changes to the program to recruit membership from new places. I really don't see them returning to their fundamental roots. That leaves one place to evolve the program...away from what I understand to be it's core mission. 

 

If I am mistaken about the core mission, then so be it. It is not the organization I think it is or want it to be and I can react accordingly. I am sure they don't care too much about me, what I believe, or what I want.

 

But if I am right, and they are going to do that, then they need to make a conscious decision to do that and announce it so the rest of us can make the decision that is appropriate to us.

It's not necessarily bad business if the business is already in sharp decline. It would be seen as a risky move, but when you can start to see the end of the line for scouting in America as we know it if the rate of decline doesn't change, taking risks becomes necessary to change direction. 

 

Of course one could argue that there are plenty of things the BSA could do outside of membership polciies to try and address the membership decline. And I'd certainly agree with that.

 

But look at it from the National point of view. They've been throwing new programing, tech, STEM, SBR, etc., at the problem for years and it hasn't helped. Making changes that would have previously been viewed as risky or bad for business all of a sudden look a bit more appealing when your list of things to try is getting shorter and shorter. 

 

This brings me back around to--what is BSA's core mission? Is it simply to expand membership? Is it to provide jobs and retirement for the professionals? Is it to serve as a proving ground social justice warrior agendas? Is it to teach boys leadership and outdoor skills?

 

What is the core mission?

 

My understanding is that it is to teach boys leadership and outdoor skills. If that is so, then they have made so many missteps that it is hard to tally them all.

 

If we are to infer the core mission from their actions rather than their words, then what would that be?

 

I still think they have no idea what their actual core mission is, and that they blow with the wind. (Don't get me wrong about one thing--they know what they say their mission is, but they don't act in accord with it.) Which leaves them looking at the metrics. The two greatest metrics are revenue and membership. Profitability is probably third. And so that's what they are focusing on.

 

And still, they can't get it right.

It is about the money - which is why we will see girls in the cubscouts as paying members in 2018.  Pretty much all of the Scout Executives are for it - it gives them a larger pool of potential members and can increase their statistics.  The Paid side of BSA is all about the numbers and, in my opinion, could not care less about the wishes or needs of the units.

 

I agree that the professionals are all about the metrics, and that it will lead to coed membership eventually. Perhaps not in 2018, but probably within 5 years at most.

 

And that will be the death knell of BSA. Because once girls become a part of the demographic and they start running the numbers, they will begin changing the program to appeal more to girls. Which will make it less appealing to boys.  And eventually it will find a steady state where it appeals to some groups of boys and girls both, but it won't be anything like BSA today. And, IMHO, it will be much less of a program. Especially once the leftists get a hold of it  and push the feminist agenda on it.

National hasn't shown and inclination of going leaner and meaner. 

 

It is a sad fact of life that any organization over time begins to exist for itself and those who comprise its bureaucracy rather than those it ostensibly is formed to serve. Over time it will manifest a will to survive rather then to serve, or profit, or whatever is supposed mission is. BSA had a better run than most.

Go to the actual LDS announcement and follow the various links,  Spend some time reading and I think you can read between the lines, this is about coed.  Look at the offering for boys verses those for girls.  The more I read, and the more links I followed, the more I am convinced BSA may be better off without LDS.

 

You may very well be right. But national is not prepared for that and assume LDS will be there.  Scouting may be better off, but it will have to survive LDS' departure, first.

It's my understanding that, prior to this change, the LDS Church required boys in its units to move from a Boy Scout Troop to a Varsity Team when they turned 14 and to a Venturing Crew when they turned 16.  I am presuming that some of these Varsity and Venturing members were/are still working on Star, Life and/or Eagle.  So what the LDS Church seems to be saying is that kids in a Boy Scout troop can stay in the troop past the age of 13, in order continue advancing through the Boy Scout ranks. 

 

One overlooked point is that a lot of LDS boys join BSA because LDS tells them to do so. "This is a good organization for boys, and you should join it." And so they do. Will some of the boys stay in BSA outside of LDS units? Undoubtedly. But I bet most of them will leave for whatever church-approved activity is next promoted by LDS. Most of those boys are gone.

I am likely a lone voice with my opinion, but I would rather see more civic orgs, and other "friends of" orgs as COs instead of religious groups using bsa as a tool to recruit for their congregation or as their own "youth group". Either the Org holds the Charter to further the mission of BSA, but not using BSA to further your own mission. In my opinion, that is/was the crux of the problem. I am sure I am alone in this opinion, but that is ok. I am used to it.

 

That's all well and good. Out of curiosity, which "civic organizations" and "'friends of' organizations" do you think those might be? I mean, national needs to find these organizations ASAP. It seems to me that if those organizations were inclined to support BSA, they already would be. 

 

And, among the organizations you identify, which will step up sufficiently to fill this hole left by LDS?

 

I don't think anything is wrong with your opinion, except that I really doubt that church's anywhere use BSA for their "youth group". Oh, that, and it flies in the face of reality.

 

But what is the mission of BSA now? That, to me, is the critical question. I don't think even BSA knows. They spout a lot of platitudes, but when the rubber hits the road, they just kind of flounder around.

 

So, what is the mission of the BSA? And which new civic organizations are going to step up now that are not already actively supporting BSA?

We've got a long way to go to the bottom.

 

 

That's what they said on the Titanic.

Yes, and so it begins. To date, national has chosen the least painful path. They were fools if they thought it would have no consequences. So now it's all pain all the time. I am not inclined to increase my level of commitment in time or in money given the direction of the program, and so they can go find some new sources for those things. 

 

“A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come.â€

― William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

Also at the time the station opened there was a second railway line that ran past the village, just a few hundred yards from the station. The nearest station on that line was several miles away. In the early days of it opening scouts visiting used to have to camp. Special arrangement was made with what was by then British Rail for trains to stop on the line where it was closest to the station to unload the tents and scouts and to walk down the hill. Quite extraordinary and the kind of thing that would never happen in modern times! Especially as the second railway line has itself now closed J

 

 

Thank you for the story and the pictures. It looks like a wonderful adventure for your scouts.

 

There is actually a train called the "Narrow Gauge Railway" that runs between the towns of Durango and Silverton in Colorado. Every time I have been on it (twice?) they have stopped midway to let backpackers off the train or pick up backpackers waiting on the train. I understand it is by special arrangement beforehand. Kind of neat, actually, and a good way to get into the back country. Not to mention both Durango and Silverton are nice visits.

 

http://www.durangotrain.com

Everyone's definition of "uber" scout is different. Seems like one night camping would promote the opposite. Seems like adults creating an excuse to have their Sunday's free.

 

One reason we leave in the morning is so that we don't start thinking about leaving on a main activity day. I guarantee you our troop switches into the mode of "let's pack up" when we realize we will be leaving soon. Heck, I'd be packing as much as possible around 7:30am Saturday.

 

Scouters need to focus less on "patrol method" and "slowing down" or "speeding up" requirements. The right focus is on program. Let's camp. Let's canoe. Let's get out there and do things. Then, let the requirements naturally follow.

 

I did not mean to imply any such motivation for your troop. I apologize if it came across that way. I agree that there can be legitimate reasons for that policy.

 

But this troop actually told us this when we were shopping troops coming out of Webelos.  They habitually add requirements for advancement. In addition to requiring Cooking MB prior to national, it's not enough to tie a bowline, for example. You have to tie it one handed. It's not enough to be able to tie all the required knots. You have to tie them in some shortened time period, like 10s of seconds.

 

They require youth to not only wear black or brown leather shoes, but they must be hiking boots for all troop functions or they are sent home and docked on their attendance. As a part of that, they actually line up and have a uniform inspection at every meeting before the meeting starts. Any uniform infraction, and they are sent home and their attendance docked. A part of the uniform inspection is to make sure their fingernails are not dirty.

 

It just goes on and one. They are quite proud of it.

I like it! But it seems to possess a lot of untapped potential. Somewhat larger, camp names, trails...it could be both a real tool and something to hang on the wall or put on a tabletop.

Take a look at the photograph of young Maggie Momen about halfway through the article. You have to "load more" a couple of times.

 

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2017/05/09/exclusive-visiting-the-site-of-the-december-coptic-church-suicide-bombing-in-cairo/

 

Beautiful picture of a scout.

 

Okay students, let's take a look at the math. Let's start with 20 days - a long term camp of 6 days.  That leaves 14 days that need to be considered.  A boy is in scouts for 7 years.  If a weekend campout consists of Friday and Saturday nights, how many weekends per year does the boy need to go on a camping weekend to meet his 20 day requirement?  That's right kids, can we all say ONE!

 

 

Around here, weekend campouts are being replaced with Saturday overnighters - a 7am Sat to 10am Sun activity. Everyone is over-scheduled. Camping is becoming one of the last merit badges  that our Eagle candidates complete.

 

We have a local troop that prides itself on producing "uber scouts". They intentionally limit all weekend camping to one night to purposefully retard scouts progress in earning Camping merit Badge. (They also required Cooking for Eagle years and years before national made it Eagle-required.) What with the over-scheduling of youngsters these days, it did make it more difficult. 

When people switch units, it is very very hard to not take it personally.  It's similar to a divorce followed by an immediate marriage.  It's really hard to not take it personally.  You can wish everyone the best, but personal feelings are hard to avoid.  

 

The main negative has been from adults who took it personally and acted more childishly than the boys.  I talked to them one on one and told them that it isn't personal.  Just be prepared for someone to take it personally.  there isn't anything you can do to stop that.

 

I find this interesting. We have people transfer in and out all the time. Most of that is because a lot of the parents are in the oil industry, and those folks move around a lot. So personal feelings are not an issue in those circumstances.

 

But even on those occasions where there is a transfer between local troops, we have never experienced any issues on a personal level. Everybody has always acted maturely and responsibly.

 

A couple of things I have not seen mentioned, though. The first is that it is my experience that the old troop is not always real worried about transferring records in a timely fashion. It's not malicious, just more of a "not their problem anymore" kind of thing. Second, not all troops keep accurate records. You need to make sure the records you do in fact obtain (when you obtain them) are complete and accurate.

 

This is particularly important if your scout is on a tight timeline with respect to advancement. We had one scout nearing his 18th birthday when we finally--after much prompting--got his records. He had achieved Life quickly, and then coasted into Eagle. So he was Life when he transferred and he spent some time in our troop. When we got his records, there were a lot of holes in it that we had to fill in rather quick fashion. And that was not a lot of fun.