Ankylus

Some of the finest Eagle scouts I've ever known earned the award 17. I had no idea this was some kind of issue. The bees that some people get in their bonnet.....

There can be no doubt that BSA has been under attack from the political left on a number of grounds over a rather long time. Whether you agree with their goals is not material to whether this is happening. It is happening. This is just one front in that battle.

So the question really is what does BSA do about it?

Well, BSA caved on the whole homosexual issue, for good or ill. (But I ask, what difference does a scout's sexual orientation make? It's not like sexual activity of any kind is permissible amongst scouts within the scope of the  program.) Did it satisfy the critics? Did they back off? No, they just smelled blood in the water and started circling for the next concession.

The BSA's critics will never be satisfied no matter what BSA does until the program is unrecognizable. The first rule they should adopt is to never change program because of political pressure. That is not because all such changes are undesirable, but because that is the wrong reason to make such a change.

The program is already unrecognizable from when I was a youth. Thankfully my youngest son will be Eagle soon. But I would like this organization to be around and recognizable if I blessed with grandsons so that we can all have something worthwhile to share.

Why shouldn't we let in girls? We cannot discriminate based on any other reason. Why discriminate based on sex?

Au contraire, as a private club we can discriminate on many bases. That's been to the US Supreme Court and back.

I do not mind a bit of political discussion around the campfire. I think it is a part of being an active citizen, provided it is done well and thoughtfully. It sounds like the fellow in your scenario went overboard, but I don't know that I would have chastised him or anything. At most, I would have tried to change the topic or guide the discussion in a less political direction.

That is, so long as he wasn't haranguing a scout. No scout's parent  sends their boys with us for political indoctrination. Have to draw the line there.

(And we do not permit scouts to loiter at the adults' campfire for precisely this kind of reason. In our troop, either the scouts would have been asked to leave and go back to their campsites or the adults would have left the scouts' campsite.)

I think, though, it is a "teachable moment", as they say. I think I would look up the scouts shortly after that and just have a short discussion. "It wasn't any fun to be lectured like that, was it?" "Do you really think that's how to win somebody to your position?" "Be sure to consider the other side of the argument and don't just take somebody's word for it." That kind of thing.  You don't want the scouts to think that's the way to go through life. There's a reason you don't talk politics, religion, or money in polite company.

The responses are all over the place here, and I am trying to figure out what the thread is really about. I will say that anytime somebody starts talking about the reputation of an institution that means an individual is about to be done wrong. Because if the action taken against the individual could be justified on any other ground, it would be. I will also say that zero tolerance policies are put in place to protect adults and institutions rather than children. You will never convince me that they do more good than harm for the children.

But I understand the OP to be, "What justifies expelling a scout from the troop?"

I am, unfortunately, a part of our troop that handles these kinds of issues as a part of the broader disciplinary process when things go wrong. We have a lot of scouts, and statistically speaking something is bound to go wrong. It is always unpleasant.

The essence of the grounds for expulsion were (1) repeated insubordination involving refusal to follow safety rules (wearing a PFD on the water) and (2) misconduct associated with illegal substances. Also, in each instance, it was not the scout's first time to meet with the troop disciplinary committee, so they were recidivists.

Thank you all, and to qwazse.  

Just found this forum today, so I thought I would try it on for size...see if it can help me and if I can help it. I hope both parts of that are true.

I in the US and am an assistant scoutmaster in a large troop. We have about 126 registered scouts and a bunch of registered adults.  Previously, I was assistant scoutmaster in another similar sized troop and a den leader, a Cubmaster, and a Comittee Chair of a Cub Scout pack. (Not all at the same time, of course.)

I look forward to the experience of this forum.