Posts posted by dilrod
The Secretary needs to either sort it out with the ADL herself or be quiet & take her child somewhere else.
If Traveling Dad is willing to train up and be the DL, awesome! He's Doing His Best. I'm sure he and the ADL could plan a fine program and execute accordingly.
If no one wants to lead, or if you can't merge other Dens resulting in the magic 6 to 8 Cubs each, fold the Den. The parents can explain to their child why they can't go to Cub Scouts anymore, or why they have to find a new Pack. No leader available means just that.
On 9/19/2018 at 9:01 AM, Momleader said:
Our council posted photos from one of the District on the council Facebook page. Den of happy arrow of light age girls.
Then a photo of them with the flag.
All in uniform - wearing shorts. No big deal right. Except 1 young girl had her shirt untucked (my pet peeve) bit it didn’t even cover her shorts. So it looks like she was only wearing a shirt and sneakers. I get it, Scout shorts aren’t inexpensive and maybe they were out of her size or uncomfortable but at least wear something longer on the bottom than the hem of the shirt (it liked like a 60s micromini dress). I can’t believe no one caught that at council before posting it. If it were my kid I would call it have it taken down. There are some sick/weird/unsavory types that would enjoy that kind of photo of children in the world.
I've seen similar photos and I share your concern. With many parent's lackadaisical/defensive attitude towards a proper uniform for their scout, this will be a common sight. Might even become a fad among the girls.
Put it on social media, it's 100x worse. Too many sickos out there.
Old uniform items remain authorized for wear. Keep recycling those uniforms & let the BSA sell skorts instead.
I agree with the comments above, this month's copy was terrible.
I'll give Scouting Magazine a couple more chances. If they don't get back to normal by winter and focus on helping me be a better Scouter instead of beating the drum for girls I'll ask them to cancel my subscription.
I don't care if they have a few pics of girls here and there, but 50/50 through the whole magazine?
I am tasked with getting our leaders & parents to take the course. Having been Pack Trainer for 3 years, I know our parents and few of them have ever taken time to explore the great resources my.scouting has to offer.
I did the new YPT a few weeks ago and I think the BSA is expecting too much. I believe the old course was adequate, although I do appreciate the addition of the Scouts First hotline. The material is college level & disturbing. It's law enforcement training (which I've had) and I don't think a lot of parents are up to it. A few "thank you for your service to the youth of America" plugs would've made it more palatable as well. Plus, the trick questions in the exam are infuriating!
There are always some that will just refuse to train, although if they are leaders, they'll be removed from the rosters in October. I'm more concerned about the potential future leader who gets halfway through the course and says "To heck with it, I'm not signing up for this!"
The thing that has stood out to me as far as compliance is the requirement that all Pack leaders must have the new YPT done or Packs can't recharter. As Pack Trainer for the past 3 years I couldn't even get some leaders to do the basic online training for their positions, and the new YPT is much more difficult. Leaders will lose their positions and a lot less Packs will be "100%," even on paper.
I tried one from the Scout Shop during our Tiger year, but I couldn't keep up with it. I'm better organized now, so maybe I can try again for our Bear year.
36 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:
Here's a twist on the question. What would his answer have been 10-20 years ago --- before the internet and You Tube?
Assuming you would take the same "watchful eye" only approach. He would have had to first go the library and probably find at least two books, one on plumbing one on electricity. If the right books weren't immediately available he/you might have had to wait weeks just to take the next step. Having gotten a hold of the right books he would then have to wade through the material and extrapolate from probably very generic instructions how to apply the material to the specific job he wanted to accomplish. There would probably not be a chapter in each book with step by step instructions on how to install a dishwasher. This would have added hours to the learning process at the same time decreasing the chances of success, especially success on the first couple tries, and not only decreased the success rate but increased the chance of catastrophic failure, that is ruining a brand new machine because he got it wrong.
Instead, he was probably able to find in just a matter of minutes a video that showed exactly how to do the thing he wanted to do, maybe even specific to the model of dishwasher. He could watch this video through a couple times in preparation for the project, and ten stop, start, and replay it as needed to work through the project step by step. So today it's possible to spend much less time learning this task and have a much better chance of completing it successfully.
Before we get too nostalgic about how much better the old days were we should maybe stop and consider that the old days were just different --- not necessarily better.
As to the question "how do our youngsters measure up" they're mastering the skills they need for today's world in the same way folks before us mastered the skills they needed for their world. So maybe today's youngsters are a lot better than we sometimes give them credit for.
Excellent discussion! My farmer father was the best troubleshooter I've ever known. He kept things running longer than most people would have been able to do. I got to learn from him.
Problem was, he could have saved a lot of time and money had he just cracked open a manual or a how-to book first, or asked what others did. I have had to reprogram myself to take time to see if there are other ways of doing something rather than just diving in.
As for Pride of Craft, I'm trying to get my Cubs to start with their uniforms: buttoning the shirt, tucking in the shirt, even just wearing the shirt. We have a ways to go, but Pride of Craft is definitely the end goal. They have to learn to take their time, though, and taking time doesn't seem to be valued, even when there is time to take.
The Pack leadership emailed everyone and advised Den Leaders to discuss it with their Dens. We were too busy having fun and learning important stuff. I never got around to it.
I finally told my 7 soon to be 8 year old son girls will be joining next year. His reaction, as a typical little boy who thinks girls have cooties, was classic. I don't have to worry about him.
My pack leadership encourages 100% of the boys making ranks, but last year I had 3 TIgers that quit showing up for meetings, but never dropped, so I didn't put them in for their badge.
This year I have wolves. Everybody has shown up for most of the meetings & I've plugged mini requirement opportunities in here and there or at least talked about them to plant the seed in their minds about service, the outdoors, etc. We worked together on a couple of electives, too. I'm satisfied that the requirements have been met in spirit, if not the letter, by all.
We hand out beltloops at Pack meetings. I'd like to hand out beltloops myself, but if the Den doesn't do an elective together, it doesn't get done. Each year I have encouraged everyone to do an elective at home, and I ask at every meeting if anyone did. The past two years I've had exactly two Cubs work on one elective on their own, and one was my son.
As always, it comes down to the parents. I plan a service project on a Saturday and nobody shows because they are all too busy with other (re: important) activities. A couple parents didn't even get a belt for their boys to wear the loops. Another wouldn't take their son to a camp, either day or overnight. You get the idea.
I guess Pack leadership has to make it clear to parents that it's up to them to meet the requirements & keep the focus on the fun and camaraderie & away from the Holy Patch. We, the Pack provide X, Y & Z opportunities to complete adventures and if you miss that, you're on your own. How hard is it to take your boy for a walk on a nature trail, or go pick up trash at the park for a half hour? Heck, how hard is it just to tell the Den Leader "Yup, we did everything, give the boy his badge!" because even that qualifies!
I never got a Wolf badge in the old days because I couldn't swim 25 yards and we weren't liars. I never expected to be handed the thing otherwise.
In the interest of being friendly and courteous, I'll make a couple more points and then bow out of this discussion.
I think there is an underlying hope that this change will generate donations, by getting us back into the United Way or gaining corporate sponsorships.
This won't earn us forgiveness and funding for what others perceive as our past sins of being sexist girl haters, just like the homosexual accommodations led to nothing. Next God will have to go, then the militaristic uniforms, then the male oriented power structure and on and on...
I hope I'm wrong, because the people leaving are taking their dues and fundraising skills with them and many of us staying won't be able to find our checkbooks when the annual FOS shakedown comes around. I doubt if we will make these up with new members.
I plan to stick around and see how things develop. I owe my boys as Den Leader to give them a good program. When, not if, the Dens become co-ed I will reevaluate.
Best wishes to everyone, whatever you choose to do.
We set up a Pinewood Derby track and have a few old cars to run at our spring school event. There are always some interested children, but we haven't gotten members doing it.
I think you have a great idea! If you do it, please let us know how it turns out.
Quite a few I would imagine.
I was in a co-ed fraternity in college that was 70% female. We referred to each other as "Brother [last name]."
My Girl Scout daughter has NO problem with it being called boy scouts. That is a problem parents and society would try teach her. She isn't born with such an objection and doesn't have it now.
Girls of cub scout age won't care and obviously any girl that wants to join "boy" scouts has already accept the title of the organization.
Parents and society SHOULD teach the difference between boys and girls. It's pathetic that parents hasten to emasculate their sons like this.
My point about the name BOY Scout is that as of yesterday, it died. The BSA spokesperson stated "There are no plans to change our name at this time."
Really? They probably have to sell tons of BSA branded merchandise and books first, then print new edition handbooks with 50/50 girls and boys in the pictures.
Again, what girl wants to tell her friends she's a BOY Scout??
We'll probably be able to keep all-boy packs and troops for another 50 or so years until a newer generation decides that separating the genders is just stupid.
No girl wants to be a BOY Scout? Never use an absolute - there are people in this thread telling you how excited their girls are to get the chance to be a Boy Scout.
The problem today is there are not enough absolutes adhered to.
Boy Scouts has always been a safe and fun place for boys to be boys. A place for boys to learn to be men. That's exactly what it was made for in the first place. It has always been a place were boys gather together to learn from men. It builds better men for the future. It's not anti-girl, but pro-boy. I think that's important. At the same time, girls should have the same thing. That's what Girl Scouts are about. What is wrong with it being a boys club? Why is exclusivity so hated now? Mentorship and education for boys from men is a good thing, not a bad thing. I would never want to force boys into Girl Scouts, that's their thing and should stay that way. This move goes against everything that the group was established for in the first place. I have no problem with a coed group that teaches both boys and girls the same thing as Boy Scouts, if parents want to put their children in it, that's fine. But don't force it upon a group that doesn't want it. Someone earlier said that this won't "ruin" Boy Scouts. I disagree. It completely changes it and makes it something completely different. It fundamentally is no longer BOY Scouts.
Agreed, and for those who point out you can still keep an all-boy Pack or Troop, please tell me how long you think that will last and how much volunteer input will influence the next round of changes.
It is indeed no longer BOY Scouts. No girl wants to be a BOY scout. Scouting USA, back after 40 years!
I wonder how many of the people who asked for this change not already in leadership positions are willing to step up, train up, suit up and become registered leaders.
Seen it too many times before in other volunteer work. People show up once, complain, we change, they don't come back anyway.
My advice to CCs and CMs that if parents want to sign their girls up, tell them they must sign up as well. Only way to make lemonade out of these lemons, in my view.
I actually have a twin sister that comes to my Den meetings. She's great, but not a Cub Scout. There are understood boundaries.
Knowing my Pack leadership, they will jump the gun and integrate Dens.
I'm not sure if I'm interested. I do this to develop boys. We do things boys like to do. If by chance my Den gets sent a couple girls next year, I'll have to think hard about continuing or finding something else for my son.
Some may think of this as a shallow concern, but I'm afraid they'll ruin the uniforms. Probably come out with some unisex pullover.
My take on this whole issue is that no amount of change, accommodation or appeasement will position the BSA for growth and stability. There is nothing we can do that will earn the BSA forgiveness for what certain vocal outsiders perceive as our sins.
They hate the BSA and want to see it out of business. We can allow girls, then others will say the uniforms are too military. We get rid of the uniforms and they say the power structure isn't inclusive enough. We fix that and they say we should drop God. We do that and oh well, nice try, but you guys are just damaged goods.
I posted a couple of times regarding my Council pushing family scouting. Since they use "youth" twice in the first paragraph, I'd say you've figured it out.
I also agree this is a discussion just to validate what they've already decided and to give the appearance of seeking stakeholder input. My wife does that once in a while with me.
Something to leave you with though are 3 photos, all 3 are some of my favourites, all were taken on a camp way back in 2011. Sometimes boys are just boys, sometimes girls want to hang with the girls and sometimes they all just end up in a big heap together. In a mixed troop they can get to do all 3.
Skip, thank you for sharing these wonderful pics!
Regarding the article, it's one more hatchet piece by a busybody. To his credit (if he's telling the truth), he's actually spent some time volunteering with us, but why not now? Perhaps he could shepherd us troglodytes into 2017, and get big dollar sponsors to fork over the cash to help make the changes happen!
I try to tune out these smug troublemakers. They're the same people who show up for one meeting, look around, put their hands on their hips and announce "I don't see any female/black/handicapped/homosexual/whatever here!" Y'all must be sexist/racist/whateverist!!!" Then thankfully disappear.
Examples: I met a Council level Scouter last year pushing "family (coed)" Cub Scouting. I told him I disagreed with it, but if the BSA made the change I'd follow orders. He said to me something to the effect of "Well, if we don't, there won't be any more Cub Scouting!" He then gave me a look like he was passing a kidney stone and marched away.
Years ago I was a young VFW Post Commander. I listened to a veteran kvetch at the bar for an hour how we weren't doing this that & the other to help the vets. I offered him an opportunity to come and do just that. Never saw him again.
Go stir someone else's pot, Mr. Heternormative.
I read both the handbook and the Den Leader's Guide before each adventure or elective, & ask the families to read theirs before each meeting. I then make my own outline based on the activity and deliver it in my own words. All the requirements are met and I can comfortably talk to the boys.
I personally feel the Tiger Handbook isn't user friendly enough for a first grader. Too much for a little mind to take in, although I hope each boy finds something interesting in it. I tell my den families to use it like a storybook & leave it at that.
I find that I can't keep up with signing off the books every time, but I try. I do make sure everyone is personally recognized for completing a requirement, especially if they did it at home, and load it into ScoutTrack right away.
Combining the book with that pedantic DL Guide is way too much. Nice to have if you're stumped for words, but then "keep it simple & keep it fun" might fall to the side.
I started the year with 11 Tiger Cubs plus a twin sister tagalong. An 12th joined (I believe at the encouragement of the District for us to add more Cubs) later in the year but never showed.
By crossover this week, I was down to 6 regular attendees (7 if you count the sister) and one infrequent who earned their badges. The others were still on the roster but essentially dropped out. One moved away.
The last 4 or 5 months with the smaller number went well. 10 Cubs, despite parental help, was chaos. Our meeting room was small and I could never quiet them down for a few minutes for talk time.
I definitely recommend splitting big groups, if you have the leadership. This year we didn't, but through attrition it evened out and I think the remaining boys had a good year.
This reminds me of when my (then) 16 year old son, after a summer working camp staff, told me "you know, Scouting's great and all ... but it does attract a few whack jobs". Good news: he's going back for his fifth summer next year.
You've raised a smart (and observant) boy!!
in Cub Scouts
Has anyone else experienced difficulty in getting a knot for a position they held? It took my 3 years to finally get a Den Leader knot. This only happened because I took it upon myself to prep all the forms (not just my own, but my fellow Den & Pack leaders going back two years), get the signatures and submitted to the District training chair. The Council sat on them forever & some of those never came.
I see those old Scouters with a chest full of knots and wonder how that happened. Were they better about awarding and processing these things in the old days?