dilrod

Good timing for my Tigers.  The local fire department couldn't find a volunteer to show us around the station at a time that worked for everybody; now the two boys who did Tiger Safe and Smart can get their belt loop this month. 

Did anyone else read the nasty comments below the article?  What a bunch of bitter, petty people.  I rarely read that site anymore because of that.  I really feel sorry for Bryan having to entertain those clowns.

If they loathe the BSA so much they should go join something else.

.... or making a uniform that has a pocket for an mp3 player.

 

 

I thought that was for cigarettes. Oops.

Welcome!

Hi, I'm a Tiger Den Leader, too.  I had the kids do the Magic Shrinking Circle in the Leader Guide for Team Tiger.  It was fun watching them contort!

Pick up a copy of the "Leader How-To Book" at the Scout Shop.  No shortage of easy things to do.  "Sweep the Floor" was a big hit, just enough rough housing to keep the boys happy.

In our Pack the Dens will stop and do push-ups if everybody's been sitting too long.  Works for us!

 

Sometimes it looks like a walking trophy case and the adults are worse about it than the scouts. Knots, epaulets, OA insignia, council insignia, language strips. When I played football our jerseys were identical except for the number. We were part of a team. I don't get that sense at all looking at scout uniforms.

This.  What some guys wear to Roundtable meetings are hideous.  How long does it take them to pin all that back on after they wash it???

The knots and special awards properly worn might inspire someone to work harder for their respective scout organization, or a young scout to work towards whatever he can earn.  But I don't think any kid looks at some overpatched peacock and thinks "oh yeah, I want to be that guy someday!"

I see the uniform as part of the game:  attention to detail, showing what team you are on, taking care of something and practicing good grooming (in between getting dirty).  

I noticed that in the training pics as well. 

I bought the official switchback pants for my Tiger Cub and me and we've never worn the rest of our uniforms without them.  I find mine durable, comfortable and probably the best pair of non-dress pants I own.

I spent four years in the Marines.  I just can't wear half a uniform. 

Welcome and good luck!

Congratulations!  I plan to take the course in a couple of years.

Wow.  Tough little guy!

 

 

I am much much more concerned that Cub Scouts and scouting in general is trying to fix so many things haphazardly that it's really becoming broken.  Lowering the age so that families burn out before Boy Scouts which is the great program.  Exposing the program to siblings which removes excitement for the next sibling.  Parents must attend den meetings causing families to run away.  

 

I really think we need to simplify and get back to the basics that created a great program.  

Agreed.   I'm a pretty good administrator, but I've had to put some real effort into planning my year out to meet the requirements without driving myself bananas.  Tell some hapless DL who can barely follow or understand the Den Leader Guide BSA puts out to add this in and it will flop.

This could completely disrupt a Den.  

I really see it as a thinly veiled trojan horse effort to make Cubs co-ed.  I just wish they'd be open about it.  

They need to consider how the BSA will have to adapt, probably create another new Cub Scout program with all the supporting materials.  Create Ellen to counterbalance Ethan.

Plus, when I see words like "embracing" and "inclusive," I suspect there are some social justice warriors behind it.  I'll definitely be investigating further.

2016_Family-Inclusive-Den-Meetings.pdf

"And I heard in the midst of the four beasts,

And I looked, and behold a pale horse,

And her name that sat on him was Little Sister, and chaos followed with her."

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/news/introducing-family-inclusive-cub-scouts

I've got issues with this on many levels and I'm working on a letter to the council.  

Before anybody accuses me of being a grumpy grown-up, my Tiger Den has a twin sister that tags along with her brother.  She's great and I have no problem letting her join in on the fun.

I think too much sibling participation will get in the way of the Den Leader offering a quality experience.  

A Scouter involved with this told me he doesn't like hearing his granddaughter complain that she can't be a Cub Scout, and that since the Northern Star Council is so big, we've got the clout to force the BSA's hand on co-ed Cubs.  

We had a Lion Den last year: Northern Star Council, Chief Black Dog District.

Out of 8 Lions, 1 had an older brother in one of the other dens.  The DL (or guide) had a son in the Bear den.

My opinion on the burnout risk is yes, probably, if the parents are the type who get wrapped around the axle over their children's activities and if the leadership tries to structure Lions too much.

We just ran it like a play group and loosely followed the book, which made it pretty easy on everyone.  

The thing that bothered me: if this was really experimental, why didn't at least the Den Leader get contacted for his input on what worked & what didn't?   That disappointed me.  Did anyone else reading this involved with Lions last year get surveyed?

Here's the discussion we had here a few months back: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/28013-now-arriving-the-return-of-the-lion/page-1

That is an interesting question.  I think a 'waiting list' is absolutely the wrong way to go.  That happened to my daughter when she tried to join Girl Scouts.  She was told that the Troop was 'full.'  Does anyone truly think we should deny a child the opportunity to participate in Scouting for a year because we (as adults) aren't doing our best to staff the open positions in our units? 

 

Yes, some of this has to fall on the parents of these kids, but I think in most cases parents don't step up because of reasons the Pack leadership could fix.  For example - if the parent's see that the Cubmaster and one or two Den Leaders are doing everything - that shouldn't be happening.  There should be a Pack Committee that handles things like the Popcorn sale, picking up badges at the Scout shop, collecting and proessing applications, etc.  If the parents see one or two Leaders doing all of that - no wonder they don't want to volunteer.  Yet time after time when I visit Packs as a Commissioner that is exactly what I see.

 

Or, we have Pack Committee Chairs and Cubmaster making a general appeal to a room full of parents.  Again, that shouldn't be happening (or shouldn't be the only method).  Look at the guides I linked above... you are supposed to wine and dine (figuratively) your candidate and ask them individually to fill a role.  How many of you can say that happened for you?  In a way it happened for me, but the outgoing Cubmaster didn't do a great job of selling the position to me... she's lucky that a Scout is Helpful and I try to live by the Law.  Her salesmanship definitely left something to be desired.

 

Or, we fail to think outside the box.  Do you have any colleges nearby?  Do you think there are any former Boy Scouts attending those Colleges who are looking for a way to stay active in Scouting?  Or perhaps students in the Education degree programs who want to gain extra experience working with youth?  Or retired grandpas or grandmas who were Scouters when their kids were young?

 

If you've exhausted every method for finding a den leader, and your Pack has a healthy Committee, then as a Scout be Helpful and find them another Pack.  Don't waitlist someone... somewhere there is a Pack that can take on additional boys, and that boy deserves a chance to experience Scouting from the day they first fill out an application until the day they age out.  Talk to your Unit Commissioner or District Executive if you don't know of a unit, I'm sure they can help you find one for those kids.

Thank you.  If we aren't able to generate interest in someone becoming a new leader, helping them find another Pack is a good idea, because I absolutely have to say no to more boys than I can handle.  

I've thought about this, especially with School Night for Scouting coming up.  Eight is definitely the maximum I'm willing to handle in a Den.  If the above mentioned happens (lots of new Cubs) and you can't get enough adult leadership for another Den, what's the best way to handle it?  Have a waiting list and add a boy if one drops out?

Good points above, but if they are going to make changes, perhaps they should try a leaner program, scaled back to a sustainable size rather than trying to grow, which never seems to work. 

My takeaways: Do we want to grow this movement?  Are you sure?  Requires change....market has changed.....continues changing (taste, preferences)..."cultural norms are rapidly changing..."         ...addressing different markets.....product has to change...approach to key markets has to change...some of the new stuff will replace some of the old stuff...end game: develop leaders by teaching the scout law...."youth" not "boys" mentioned...

Yeah, check out the Improved Scouting Program, Mr. Stephenson and see how that turned out.  I recently read up on that in Scouting magazine back issues.  A lot of work went into that with big goals.  In early 1973 the Boy Power logo quietly disappeared from the magazine and that was about it.

What is really insulting about this kind of thing is that people HAVE TRIED to grow this thing for almost 50 years!!!  It's almost heartbreaking to listen to speeches like this that infer no one is doing anything or ever HAS done anything to reach out to other communities.

It's been said here before.  Have a good program, spread the word and be welcoming. That's the best you can do. It's not our fault if most millenials/minorities/whatever aren't interested.  Let's just take care of the boys that want to be scouts.

Amen!

Welcome!

 

Really though we have a nice graduation tradition where every kid gets on stage, the parents present them with their rank badge, and then we take a family pic. I am just thinking what do we do in that moment for those kids who aren't getting a badge? A certificate? A homemade plaque? Is there some generic badge at the scout shop we can buy for their brag vest to commemorate the year? That's the kind of ideas I was going for. I wasn't trying to figure out a way to give them badges they haven't earned!

Understood.  I think a hearty Cub Scout handshake and welcome by their next Den Leader is the best thing a boy could have.

But that's a competition.  Its not that everyone in your class received a 1st place ribbon except you.  Are you suggesting we only award one Wolf Badge per den?

I don't see that as the same thing. Every Cub can earn a Wolf badge if he meets the requirements.  If he doesn't he can still age into Bear with his buddies, he just doesn't get a badge, no big deal.  That's what I'm telling my Tiger parents.  

As a matter of fact, I never got a Wolf badge because I wouldn't try to swim 30 feet.  I topped out at Bobcat.

We use ScoutTrack.com, I don't know what the subscription fee is.

I've watched this thread ramble on for 4 pages now.  So I'm going to point out the elephant in the room.  There are some boys that have earned their award in Cub Scouting and some who haven't.  So, how's about giving the awards to those who have earned them and a pep talk about stepping up their game in Scouting to those who didn't.  If they don't learn from their mistakes they are simply going to repeat the process until it hits a point of real pain and disappointment, like a job advancement opportunity.  One is only perpetuating the problem by giving into the gimme, gimme, gimme attitudes of today's entitled children.  They have learned self-esteem and self-importance, but have totally missed the lesson on self-respect.  Scouting is a learning process.

Agreed.  Some boys in my Den may get their first lesson in winning and losing from me.

Way way back in 1975 my first grade class had a turkey drawing contest for Thanksgiving.  Of course, my turkey was the best! I'll never forget him; a beautiful tom turkey on yellow construction paper. My turkey would win and that's what I told everybody in class who would listen.

I don't remember who won, we had 1st 2nd & 3rd place, but it wasn't me.  I cried and cried!  Two young teacher's aides (they were high school girls & I think they judged the contest) came and sat beside me and explained that even when we do our best, we don't always win. I was over it by the end of the day.

I owe it to them to pay the lesson forward. If Millennial Mom gets mad, chews me out and pulls her boy from the Pack, well, at least I did the right thing.  A Scout is brave, right? 

First off, debrief the Tiger leader from this year.  Where did he or she go for outings?  Were any requirements harder than others?  Anything that didn't work?  Anything that was a hit?  Any handouts or notes that he or she can share with you?

 

For our Tiger den, since the leader was new to the Pack I kicked off the first adventure.  We started with Good Knights, because a.) it is fun, and b.) it talks about the Scout Oath, Law, and allows you to establish a den code of conduct.

Thanks, I have been talking with the outgoing DL, I think she did a pretty good job.  What did your Den do for outings?