SpEdScouter

If I may, this thread was discussing racism and segregation.

I know around here they had racially segregated Scout troops and camps up until the 1950's. Does anyone here have experience when troops started integrating?

I know from the video of the 1953 National Scout Jamboree their were some black scouts present LINK.

As a Venture Scout I did regular winter mountaineering trips to Scotland.

 

When camping above the snow line there were no latrines. You used a sandwich bag and back to base with you it went.

 

High fibre diets seems strangely out of favour on those trips!

Well it doesnt have to be just an ordinary plastic bag. They have these bags called "double doodie" LINK  and "wag bags" LINK which have this gell in them that converts wastes to solids and cuts down on odor so all you need is a bucket. Hope to never have to use them.

One of mine worst experience, was in a out house in Ontario.  I had been out for a week with the scouts, wilderness camping / canoeing in Lake Superior Provincial Park.  In the wilderness sites in the park, they have a 'boom boxes' to sit on.  It is out in the open woods, but it is nice to have a toilet seat to sit on.  You have to try to keep the bugs off your butt, and if it is raining, you can pull your rain pants over your regular pants and underwear, to try to keep them dry. 

 

After a week of wilderness camping, we stopped at a tourist site in the park - the Indian Pictographs.  It was raining, and I had to use the toilet, and there was an out house.  Unfortunately for me, the roof leaked, and all the rain was funnel right into my lap.   It would had been a lot better, and a lot drier, to just be out in the open.

Those "boom boxes" sound alot like the "pilot & bombardier" facilities at Philmont.

In our area the only problem is the weather. May is notorious for lots of rain so one would have to carefully pick a site where when (not if) it rains it wont turn into a mud pit.

It looks pretty cool but where on the uniform or sash would one put it? Most "extra" badges like this are worn on the back of the sash but this seems to be a major award.

I think instead of it being a sew on patch it would be better to be some sort of pin or medal like the religion medal is.

At the camps and campgrounds you've been to, which ones had the best and worse latrines?

Any interesting latrine jokes or stories?

Has your troop ever had to dig and set up one in a primitive campsite?

I have also heard that the Girl Scouts works together with Planned Parenthood to “steal children’s innocence and make them vulnerable to the negative consequences of promiscuity thereby creating clients for their abortion and STD servicesâ€. Yeah, right.

 

Just because some wacko says it on their radio program (or on the internet) doesn't make it true.

Totally off my point. 

I do not believe it to be wise to abandon native American customs, and I believe its important to teach to our boys as well.

Nor do I. We are Americans and as such, we should honor those people whom first settled this land. Here in the midwest we also have a big NA population (our troop has a Dad and 3 kids - all Navaho).

I imagine a troop from Hawaii might find it silly to wear feathers and headresses like say the Cherokee or Sioux Indians and might use Hawaiian native themes.

Thanks for the pictures. Your right really if it wasnt for their being girls, many of the pictures would look just like an American Boy Scout troop.

Ok, more questions:

Do you do merit badges?

What fundraisers do you do to raise money to help pay for activities?

Does your troop have a "sponsor" like a church or community center where you hold your meetings, store your equipment, and in some ways set some rules and guidelines for your troop?

How much does a scout typically pay per year to be a member? How much do they pay for activities?

Is your troop "scout lead" meaning the scouts do many of the activities (planning, organizing, policing themselves) pretty much themselves and the adults serve mostly in an advisory role? Ex. In our troops the scouts will often request all adults leave the meeting room and when we come back they say "we have decided to do ..." and we just often just say "okay".

Do you have a version of the scout oath and law? If so how often do you recite them?

In US troops every morning and evening they do a "flag ceremony" where they raise and lower the US flag (and sometimes the state flags). Do you raise and lower the English flag or other flags every morning and evening to some ceremony at your campouts?

Do you have a version of "high adventure" campouts? Those are particular trips and venues requiring advanced skills or in extreme conditions like deserts, swamps, mountains, or winter conditions.

Would you take your scouts on a multi-day backpacking trip where they would say have to bring all gear and food for a 3-5 day trek?

Thanks.

Lets face it. If your at camp you will have electronics that need charging. Do you all have any reccomendations for solar chargers?

I attended Bartle 25+ years ago, and had the privilege of being selected to join Mic-O-say (as an adult scouter).   Wonderful camp and the positive influence of Mic-O-say can be seen in the participation and heritage of the camp.   Plus, the induction ceremony was better than any OA ceremony I'd seen before or previous.

 

That said, there was alot of "I'm Mic-O-say and you aren't" attitudes throughout the camp.   Scouters and scouts both seemed to relish needling non-Mic-O-say people.   I'm not normally bothered by such things, but there was a steady stream of "we're in and you aren't."   Perhaps this is what SpEd is referring to?

 

Going to camp in other parts of the US, I've haven't seen any other fraternal influence.   The OA will perform their duties at certain times, but they are pretty low key otherwise (I mean that in a good way).

Yeah, when you walk around and you dont have the lanyard and the claws, your pretty much ignored. Especially at Lone Star which has the Micosay headquarters.

Does any other camp have areas marked off with white rocks that only fraternity members can go to? To me the camp should be for the scouts not just the tribesmen.

Thanks for coming around.

A few questions. I know in the UK scouting is integrated with boys and girls mixed. How well does that go? Are there times you have separate events or groups for each gender?

On campouts do they share tents? 

Also could you post some pictures or provide some pictures of your uniforms and what your campouts look like?

There are several non-national groups like this that are just within a Council.  There is also Firecrafter in Indiana area.  In Seattle there is the Silver Marmot.  But that is at Camp Parsons and is now a Camp Staff based thing.

Do you think they dominate? 

At Camp H. Roe. Bartle, and especially at camp Lone Star they have Micosay and I have to say, Micosay is pretty dominant. Easily 19-20 staff members are Micosay and Micosay dominates the activities like they run the major events, at mealtimes they call out the various ranks and such, Micosay also has their lodge there.

Also white rocks set aside areas only Micosay members can enter.

While I dont have any problem with Micosay in general and I definitely see the need for such a group to keep older scouts in the system, I really think they can overwhelm things. I can see that part of the reason our group camps at Bartle is because of its Micosay focus (all of our leaders are in it). They seem less enthused about staying at non-Micosay camps.

Now I knoiw Micosay is just Heart of America council and isnt national like OA is but other councils have their own versions. Do you all see the scouting fraternities taking up too much attention from regular scouts?

I have heard that the staff at Girl scout camps is sometimes as much as half lesbian. Now its one thing to be open and accepting but you have to start asking questions when a group thats about 3% of the population makes up that much of a segment of your organization and look at the effect that has on programming.

This discussion can piggyback on the "if Scouting began today".

Boy Scouts of America uses alot of native American symbolism like costumes and structure.

But if it wasnt for things Indian, what other culture would they emulate? Would would "Order of the Arrow" be?

I'm thinking possibly it would have to be military like we already have in say Sea Scouts.

Well there are alternatives to Boy Scouts that have sprung up over the years. Royal Rangers, Navigators, spiral Scouts, Camp Fire, Baden-Powell Service, Trail Life, etc... alternatives to the Girl Scouts are Frontier girls and American Heritage Girls. The latter is growing in our area.

Thing is money. Any organization can gather a few members but if a movement is to grow there must be paid staff and a national structure.

I see one problem in winter camping in general, it gets dark too fast. Usually by around 6 pm. You can do some campfire things but cold and dark usually isnt fun and you 2-3 hours until everyones ready for bed.

To the OP.

I hear you. This is why we need more leaders with expereince with Autism Spectrum disorders plus other emotional, behavioral, and learning disabilities. People think the word "disability" means something visible like a wheelchair and they say "why cant he just...?".

To the OP.

I hear you. This is why we need more leaders with expereince with Autism Spectrum disorders plus other emotional, behavioral, and learning disabilities. People think the word "disability" means something visible like a wheelchair and they say "why cant he just...?".

Well there have been some attempts to start "scout" style groups outside of the BSA and GS. Here is one LINK. They mention Navigators, Campfire, Spiral Scouts, and Baden-Powell Service. Another LINK to Trail Life USA.

Any of those groups would lack any kind of national structure though and be very spotty. Maybe in one area one group would do well but be unheard of outside it.

Does anyone see any say successful Spiral Scout programs in your area?

In our troop the problem I see is where does the role of "Scoutmaster" end and "Parent" begin?

For example some Scouts if they are having an issue, run to their Dad. Even though that person is not in charge where they should be going to the ASM or SM.

Another, some leaders do spend more time with their son than they do with the other scouts.

So when, where, and how do they take off their "Dad" hat and put on their leader hat and vise versa?

I looked at the list of merit badges available at camp and was surprised what was on the list.  I never was a boy scout, but was a girl scout, and did attend a boy scout family camp every spring for years.  I think camp should be full of fun camp kinds of stuff- like boating, swimming, hiking, backpacking, rock climbing, nature and nature-y type stuff, shooting sports, as well as the typical camp crafts, like leather work or basketry.  I let my son choose what he wished, though.  I expected partials.  He has now completed all camp badges, except archery, which he may just have to retake at camp until he gets it.  At girl scout camp I earned badges, too, but was having so much fun in the outdoors, I didn't know I was earning them and really didn't care either.

At our camp there really are few choices the scout can do outside of the merit badges. For example I dont see any "free" or "open" time for say lakefront, the climbing tower, the gun range, the bmx course, or the pool where Scouts can just go down and have fun there. It would be cool if say some Scouts could say check out a boat and just go water skiing. The only real open activity is just hiking.

It would be fun to say at breakfast "ok everyone, today is on your own. Form small groups, decide what you want to do, and then just go have fun. Just be back for supper". 

Some of you have discussed how Scout camp is too regimented and too much centered around earning merit badges and maybe Scouts would like to go just to have fun and do activities.

Is that possible?

Our Scouts go to Bartle mostly and all the activities like the lakefront are pretty much tied up all day so I cant see Scouts just say checking out some canoes for the day. The only things scouts could do on their own I guess is hiking.

So at your camps what could or have Scouts just done on their own?

It actually sounds like a good idea for say a Scout from Oklahoma who wants to attend a camp by the seashore or in the mountains to try new things they cannot do back in Oklahoma.