SpEdScouter

It's been a few years since my daughter was a Girl Scout, but I don't recall a periodical similar to Boy's Life.  Or a periodical of any kind.   The only message I remember from HQ GSA was "SELL MORE COOKIES!" 

This sentence says it all. Notice how in Boy's Life all the fundraising companies advertise to sell their products? Girl Scouts dont want anything to cut into cookie sales.

But isnt this partly fault of the Girl Scouts for NOT having an equivalent to "Boy's Life"? Just what publication does the GSUSA put out anyways?

Is it really the end of the world to not have your own camp? I mean what really is the purpose to have a separate facility to go back to year after year? I guess the obvious is so they can earn merit badges but those can be earned at any time or place. Our scouts earn 3-5 every summer which is about the same amount they earn in a weekend event. Yes it is nice to have a facility already set up for say rifle range or waterfront so Scouts can work on those merit badges but they can do those at other facilities like the one I mentioned above. Is it a kind of ego thing to have "OUR" camp?

Looking at the discussions on this site some have said their troops dont even always go back to scout camp every year and instead, use that time for a week long trip.

To be honest I wish our tropp didnt go back to the same camp year after year because it would free up the scouts to plan more. Heck they could go to a different scout camp every year.

I wonder if camp closures have anything to do with the value of the property?

Is there a urban encroachment?

Is it in a popular vacation area?

If any of those 2 are yes then I think many times scout leaders see dollar signs dangled in front of them. I know they did this with girl scouts because they had several camps close, partly because real estate developers wanted the land. Also didnt they have a camp on a popular east coast island that was closed? There is a spot a few miles away that I know used to be a Nazarene Youth camp and another that was by Campfire.

Really "camps" in general are getting mighty rare. So many church and other youth camps have closed and for the same reasons. Urban encroachment and/or being in a popular tourist spot.

To get around this camps have to be made more profitable. Market the facilities and programs to outside groups. Their is a facility called Windermere Baptist conference center which does this.

qwazse,

First, you need to decide if you are really going to fix this problem, because to fix this problem you are going to have to go scorched earth. By that, the SM and his family need to be removed and booted. But you need to buy time until recharter probably. (We recharter in December.)

 

Remember, though, if you fail this is the guy who signs off on your son's advancement.

 

He's clearly not talking to the COR or anyone else at the CO. This is your golden opportunity, and he's a fool for this because it is providing you a chance to get the CO on your side, and the CO will always have the upper hand. (Well, not always. I have seen situations where that wasn't true. But it's a truly ugly story for another time.) You need to spend some time with the COR and, perhaps, the pastor of the church. Educate them a little bit, not only as to their rights and responsibilities, but as to what this yahoo and his family are up to. Tell the COR he doesn't have to sign the recharter paperwork until he is happy with the adult leadership.

 

To buy time, I would even suggest that he come by on occasion to watch the yahoo in action. Maybe the COR can ask the yahoo in a public forum why they aren't meeting at the church and where the equipment is. It will be harder for the yahoo to lie and the COR can explain the "misunderstanding" and the "miscommunication" in a public setting. Kill the yahoo with kindness at this point.

 

Then, suggest that the CO needs to step in and find new leadership at the SM level. Have some qualified names ready to offer for his consideration. Then, when it's time for recharter, file the paperwork with the new SM's name in it. 

 

Oh yeah, and if the SM objects and absconds wtih the equipment? Call the constable. Don't play around, because he won't. He's already established the he lies and is underhanded and devious. You will need to take strong action to counter all that. Like I said, scorched earth.

 

I just wonder what if Mr. "Yahoo" is reading this right now?

What I am thinking of is a scout camp that offers a high adventure package trip similar to the one mentioned above at Rocky Mountain High adventure base. Maybe after the boys go on a few they might feel comfortable planning a trip on their own.

NJScouter - Yeah the Appalachian trial sounds great but the distance is an issue.

Their is a growing trend towards year-around schooling which basically means no long summer breaks. Just 2 week long breaks between sessions.

Does anyone do this in their areas?

How would such a system affect scouting and summer activities like camps?

I'd like to ask, these camps that are closing, are they near developed areas or other such areas where development and urban encroachment are partly to blame? Were developers tossing around offers of millions of dollars?

I know here around Kansas City several Girl Scout camps plus camps run by churches and other groups, have closed and I think its partly that they were smaller (maybe 40-160 acres) and were built not far from the cities and since then the cities have moved out to them and encompassed them so they quit being "in the country" and ended up selling and now their are houses on them. I read the Girl Scouts once had a camp on the east coast on some island which eventually the value of the land became worth so much they were pressured to sell.

The Boy Scout camps in our area like Bartle were built far from the cities so they have little fear of a developer wanting the property.

Our troop is looking to do a yearly "high adventure" outing each summer. Now what I mean is a trip not like the big ones like say Philmont or Seabase, but smaller ones where the costs are about what one would pay for summer camp. We think this would be a good way to keep the older scouts involved and maybe attract new scouts who have done most of the merit badges common at summer camps and are ready to try some advanced activities and yet not spend the big money required for places like Northern Tier.

A good example is like the one through Rocky Mountain High Adventure base.

Any suggestions?

I think for me is if the boys have everything packed for a campout, I dont want them opening up their backpacks before we get to the place.

Let me explain. I have taught the scouts to carefully pack for a trip by making a list, laying everything out, carefully pack their backpacks, and then seal that sucker up and dont touch it. This way they know exactly whats in it and where it is. If they have to do a campout halfway then they might mix things up, damage something, or lose something.

Now sleeping on the floor of say a gym would be a good compromise.

Thanks for the great information.

Our troop is attempting to help an inner city troop get going. We can of course provide some basic equipment like tents and all but I know first hand scouting isnt cheap. I'm thinking of all the expenses including:

Scout fees

Campout fees

Equipment fees

Going to camp

Costs for earning merit badges

Back in my youth most of the reason I had to quit scouting is because we didnt have the money. Even say $5 for a campout. And I definitely had no equipment like a backpack or hiking boots.

My question is, how much do you think a scout typically spends a year on being a scout?

We have camp masters who like meyerc13's serve in the off season giving those using the camp for weekend camping a go to person other than the ranger.

Summer camp is usually about half and half. Adults (retirees and teachers) who work the full summer and stay in adult staff housing (cabins) and then the teenagers who work the full summer and stay in the staff housing area (older buildings and platform tents). All age groups work in varying positions throughout the camp.

That is another issue because it takes just the right "boss" to work with both groups. One cannot treat a retiree as they would a teenager and vise versa. Often the retiree has more experience than the "boss" also.

One drawback that I've noticed for the retired volunteers I've observed is that while the council places no value at all on volunteers whom they don't pay, it is the retirees among the overall volunteer group who seem most freely to decide when or where they feel like volunteering. I can't blame them really. The closest camp to us does not 'employ' retirees at all for summer camp, or really even any volunteers during summer camp other than unit leaders, as it should be.

Well that is an issue with "volunteers" anytime. Volunteers are still employees and should still follow orders of supervisors and if not, they can be "fired" (asked to leave). Volunteers do not mean "free" workers as mentioned above they still get housing, food, insurance, etc...

T2

Good response. I guess I'm a person who is trying to always fix things.

I will though bring it up to the boys and see if they want to try using one.

I have noticed when our patrol leaders organize a campout they write all the information out on a piece of paper. Information being like location, dates, names of patrol members attending, menu for each meal, chore lists, etc... But each scout seems to do it in his own way.

I am wondering, is there a "form" or "worksheet" out there which would be a kind of "fill in the blanks" tool to help the scouts organize their trip? This way they can be sure that nothing get missed. Also such a form could be checked off by the SPL or possibly the scoutmaster. After the trip or outing then such a form, with any followup comments, could be filed away for future reference.

Is there such a form?

Is something like this a good idea?

I never thought about non-hotel places to stay. I guess I thought it would just be easier.

Are there any rules on Scouts staying at hotels on long trips?

Some camps have opportunities for retirees to come in with their RV's and work at various jobs around the camps. Some stay in the camp housing.

Do any scout camps do this?

Also at scout camps it seems most classes are taught by teens. Do any of them allow older persons to come in and work?

I know some people who would love to say, spend their summer at a scout camp and teach woodcarving or astronomy all day.

Do they do this anywhere?

You might also ask about their fundraising programs. Some make a ton of money off say Christmas tree sales and others dont do any at all.

Our troop does a kind of "Great spirit" , native american type thing. Praying to our "great scoutmaster in heaven".

I'm with most of the guys here.  A new unit would not be started unless there was a need. That need might come from the fact that the current units are not delivering the program to the boys the way it is supposed to be delivered.  It might come from the fact that the current unit is too big (that is how our unit started 50 years ago splitting another Troop to make if more manageable).  It might come from an IH's desire to have a Troop and a Pack based on their positive experience with scouting.

 

As for recruiting, we have up to five Packs that feed into our Troop.  There are three packs that have the same CO and numbers as Troops in the area.  One of those is the Pack that has the same CO as our Troop.  When I was CM of the pack, we had boys go to three different troops and encouraged the boys to visit a variety of troops.  We've had guys from the other "affiliated" packs come to our troop too.  This year, the Webelos II Den leader in one of those packs was estatic that one of his boys who wasn't too keen on continuing in scouting decided to join our troop.  We've actually been happy that a bunch of boys from our affiliated pack joined the troop down the street (the one we broke off from 50 years ago) because it was struggling with members almost dropping below 10 scouts (we are around 50 currently).  Two of the packs don't have Troops associated with them and we pick up a couple scouts from them every year or so.

 

We find that the most important factor is scouts that have older brothers, friends of scouts that have older brothers, scouts who's parents have friends who sons are in the troop and then affiliation between the Pack and the Troop (in that order).  Each of the area Troops has a different feel to it.  We are known as being large, boy-led and chaotic (no surprise there) and recently have gotten a reputation for having a strong outdoor program.  We also have a rag tag, sort of F Troop feel to the boys.  As one parent put it, we have a great bunch of goofballs.  The Troop down the street was smaller and somewhat boy-led (we think that it is becoming more boy-led due to a new SM.  The Troop to the west is midsized and much more adult lead and much better organized.  The Troop to the north is smaller and does a lot of camping and activities.  We really aren't in competition, rather we all are promoting Scouting and we are happy when a boy continues in Scouting regardless of which Troop they are in.

Curious, Do you all meet on the same nights? sometimes that is an issue when parents are trying to schedule things.

I'd like to add that for some parents it might come down to what night works best for them because say their open night is on thursdays and your troop meets on mondays so they might need to find a troop that works out better just for the meeting times.

I think alot of parents just go on their district website and start looking for troops that are close by. I was surprised to find 2 by my house I didnt even know those churches had troops.

Does anyone know of any events which are listed as just "Scouting" where all scouts - Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Venturing, and other groups such as Civil Air patrol, Campfire, or others might get together for some event? I've seen some amusement parks have them.

One time it was given to me the job of pulling the troop trailer. My truck could barely handle the load and I had not pulled a trailer that size in years. I made it but was nervous.