BSAChaplain

Welcome to the forum. We look forward to hearing from you as your share your insights and experiences.

Welcome! Do I understand from your profile that you are an Eagle, an OA member and firestarter.

We hope you can glean much, but don't hesitate to add your voice too.

Welcome back to the Clan, my brother. Join us once again around the Council Fire.

1. About the sash. Different Councils/Lodges limit purchases in different ways. When I got back involved, I just walked into out Scout Shop and bought a new Vigil sash, no proof of anything required. I can buy lodge flaps at the Scout Office. The lodge I grew up in handled all OA material, nothing through the council whatsoever.

2. About memebership. I have posted this before, but here it is again from the OA website www.oa-bsa.org FAQ page.

Q: When I was a Scout as a boy, I was in the OA and went through my Ordeal and Brotherhood. I am now an adult leader in my son's troop. Am I automatically in the OA (in other words, is OA a lifetime membership)? Or do I have to start all over with another Ordeal, and so forth?

A: Once a Scout goes through his Ordeal, he is a member of the Order of the Arrow for the rest of his life. OA membership does require a person be registered with the BSA, so if you left the Scouting program for a while, your OA membership would lapse as well.

However, once you renew your BSA membership, even in another council, you can also resume your OA membership at the same level you left it. In your case, you would still be a Brotherhood member.

You will need to connect with the local OA lodge to pay your dues and continue your active membership.

You should contact your current council's OA Lodge Adviser. (If you do not know who that is, contact your council service center and ask them for his name and number.) Explain the situation, and you will probably be able to establish your membership based on the information you have and any other items that you may have (such as an old OA sash, pocket flap, etc.)

If necessary, you may have to contact your former Council to see if they can forward any records they may have of your membership.

Here's one more, "how we used to do it" posting...followed by an opinion on Venture Patrols/Crews

In the late 70's-mid 80's our troop used a combination of "Senior Patrol" and Leadership Corps.

If you were 14 years of age and First Class, you became a member of the Senior Patrol. For the purpose of camping and patrol functions this was your patrol. Most trips our Scoutmaster had a Scoutmaster's Challenge for the older Scouts that was similar to the activity for the younger. Honing our Scout skills and getting us to think outside the box.

Our adults functioned as a patrol, the "Silver Foxes" and there was a good natured rivalry between the Senior Patrol and the Silver Foxes as to who could eat the best, have the most luxurious camsite etc, regardless of the conditions. This made us stretch our Scout skills beyond the basics. Once per year the Senior Patrol would spend a week backpacking in the Sierras without the rest of the troop. We all functioned together as a unit. It was a tremndous week for young men and older to learn more about each other and to work as equals.

If you served in a position of troop leadership, you were made a member of the Leadership Corp (trapezoidal red patch with Aladdin's Lamp in the middle). This was the group of committed older Scout's that I as SPL always looked to for helping the new Scouts. All of our Boards of Review below Star were held by boys from the Leadership Corp. They were the only boys who could teach Totin' Chip classes etc.

Only Patrol Leaders and members of the Leadership Corps had sign off privileges for skill awards and other rank related items.

As the SPL and then JASM, this group made my leadership possible and very effective.

At that time our council offered both "JLT" - Junior Leadership Training a troop led weekend training and "TLT" Troop Leadership Training, a week-long event modeled in many ways after the Woodbadge of the 20th Century (or so I understand). In our council they called it "Buckskin."

Like every troop, our two biggest exit points were brand new Scouts who figured out it wasn't for the, and high school freshmen who decided there were things that interested them more. Our troop had a much higher retention rate than others in the area. I think largely due to the way we engaged our older Scouts.

I don't care whether you call it a Venture Patrol, Senior Patrol, Leadership Corps, or the Big Macs. The trick to retaining older Scouts is to recognize them for their abilities, allow them to shine beofre the younger Scouts and challenge them enough to keep them a little humble and interested. It should be a little elitist to make it desirable, but not so much so as to be snobbish.

I worry about Venture Crews. I worry that we will siphon the older boys from the troop and not allow them to build the leadership skills that are best developed after the basic skills have been learned.

What is there to encourage a boy to continue advancing in ranks when he is outside of the troop? If there is a strong advancement push, is that fair to the girls who cannot earn rank?

I know many people who think it's the best thing for this age group, but for me the jury is still out. I know this probably should have fit in another thread or been spun off, but here it is anyway.

Yours in Cheerful Leadership and Service.

The troop that I grew up in had a tradition/policy about one Scout saluting another twice in their Scouting carrer. The first was when they became a Scout, the second was when their mother pinned their Eagle medal on their shirt.

Now my old Scoutmaster was a pretty by the book kind of guy, but I have not found that written down anywhere. I have been to many Eagle COHs in various troops and some salute, others do not. Never outside of my old troop have I seen a new Scout saluted.

I figure if any group would know about this, you all would. Thanks for your answers.

I recently read, that BSA guarantees their uniforms for the life of the owner. That you can return a uniform to the National Supply in exchange for a new one.

Acutally here's what it said "The Boy Scouts of America's Supply Division, since its inception, operated under a policy whereby they "guaranteed their uniforms for the life of the owner." This policy later expanded to anything they sold or has the BSA's official seal attached to it. Basically, they allow you to exchange worn uniform parts (shirts, pants, belts only) for newer versions with them. In order for you to do this, you must wash and clean the uniform item, and send it to the BSA's Supply Division at the National Office explaining what is wrong with the item. If your item is old and the Supply Division no longer carries that item, they will inform you and bill you or you can provide them credit card information in which they can receive payment. But in most cases, they are happy to provide you with a larger, wider, or smaller (!) uniform item, charging you only for the cost of postage and shipping the item.

There IS a limit as to how many times you can do this; the Supply Division is NOT in the business of losing money but they will support you and other Scouters and Scouts. You MUST include a letter with the item providing your full name, mailing address, unit number and city/state, and Council name or number. Without that information, they will NOT exchange your items.

This came from Mike Walton's Leaders Online Page http://users.aol.com/coffeeweb/LO/faq.htm

So, I simply want to know if anyone here has ever returned a uniform piece to National and had it replaced?

Two weeks ago was our lodges Vigil weekend. As I was getting dressed to leave I looked over and saw my uniform hanging with that white sash with a bold red triangle acroos it. I felt a swell of pride. Possibly even more than over the red, white and blue knot over my pocket.

But as I spent the weekend side-by-side with the others, I felt honored that someone else thought enough of me to put me in a group with these men and women of such character.

I'm with SemperP. There's a tremendous amount of humilty that goes hand-in-hand with the pride.

Yes, I am proud to be an Arrowman.

Good luck,

Maybe a worm with a helmet, or in martial arts gear.

try http://www.worms.wz.cz/exterminators/index.htm or www.worms.me.uk/

Absolutely,

Take a look in the Scout catalog. There is an order form for special patrol badges. You just can't use trademark images without permission. So no, Snoopy Patrol or Sponge Bob Patrol.

There is also a blank patrol patch. You can embroider or iron-on your own design that way as well.

Finally, there are some websites that sell spoof patches. They may have a patrol patches that would interest you. Try googling spoof patrol patch. One such site is www.boyscoutstore.com. They have lots of patches. Many of them are the classic red with black thread, as well as full color and the current tan design.

I don't know if there are any guidelines on using "non-BSA" patrol medallions, so check with your SM before ordering anything.

Encourage the patrols' creativity, but help them show Scout Spirit in their name choice.

Welcome to BSA Addicts Anonymous

Step Number One: We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable.

Nah!!! It's manageable.

Welcome to the forum and the next 18+ years of your life...

We're glad you're here.

Welcome to the forum.

Keeping walking the trail and listening, but remember there are those behind you adn alongside you. You already come with great experience. So don't be hesitant to share it.

!!!!WAY TO GO!!!

First of all you should consider that fact that you were re-elected as a really good sign. They must think you are doing something good.

Second, you probably don't need the rest of this e-mail you're doing great. But I wrote it anyway. Take what you can use.

I'd like you to share with you about change.

2% of your group are innovators, they make things change

18% will be quick to change and follow the innovators.

60% will reject it at first, but with enough time and reason they will change.

18% will be very slow to change.

2% will never change.

Unfortunately, this means you will "lose the support" of some the 2%) and others will appear to have been lost (as you wrote "the SM and CC agreed but some of the old guard was unwilling to be actively supportive for a few months"). However, you will have gained the respect and admiration of many. Once you've won over the slow to change, they will keep it going (remember, they are slow to change, good or bad). Plus, you will have given yourself and the boys a program worth having.

You probably already know who your quick changers are. Now with them at your side, focus on the 60%. Give them time and a lot of reasons for the change. Use any resources you may have including handbooks (Scout, PL, SPL or SM) don't expect immediate agreement, but keep casting vision. Tell them what it will be like as patrols.

Celebrate the small victories. Tell them what a great job they did as a patrol unit on a campout or with a cheer. Assign partols a task as a group for the meeting, Blazing Arrows do the opening, Roadrunners, the closing, and Eagles, clean up. Rotate the tasks and continually praise them for their work.

Do they have a strong sense of identity? Do they have flags and patches, cheers, yells, and songs?

Have you looked at Honor Patrol award, or inter-patrol competitions. Maybe have a patrol spirit contest for a month, with Rootbeer floats for the winners. Or have a knot tying relay with 3 boxes of "Peeps" for the winning patrol.

The job journal is a great idea. Will they pass a copy of it on to their successors or present it at their Scoutmaster conferences and Board of Reviews?

Do you as SPL attend the Committe meetings. Perhaps you could suggest a 90 minute long meeting. Tell them about your ideas and how you'd like to have real patrol meetings during the troop meetings. If the PLC doesn't have PL handbooks, ask the troop to buy them. Use them and their templates.

How many of your adults are "Trained" meaning have they been to the council offered training for their role as leaders. Youth Protection Guidlines (YPG) New Leader Essentials (NLE) Introduction to Ourdoor Leadership are for everyone. Plus, SM/ASM specific training or Troop Committe Training as well. Of course then there's Woodbadge. These programs will help them catch the vision you have. (Getting them to go might not be easy see the threads about adult training if you want to know more.)

It may not happen in your six months, but stay with it. Find a job that keeps you in the PLC. Find someone to carry on as the next SPL that will keep the ball rolling and help him to get elected. it will be worth it.

Keep us posted on your progress, I for one will be cheering you on from cyberspace.

Welcome aboard!

Glad to have you here.

resqman,

Probably this should be a different post, but why do you say ex-OA? Did you renounce your membership? Once elected to the OA, you are always a member.

From the OA Website - http://www.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-42.htm

"Once a Scout goes through his Ordeal, he is a member of the Order of the Arrow for the rest of his life. OA membership does require a person be registered with the BSA, so if you left the Scouting program for a while, your OA membership would lapse as well.

However, once you renew your BSA membership, even in another council, you can also resume your OA membership at the same level you left it. In your case, you would still be a Brotherhood member."

Ignorance is bliss!!! If I don't know that it should run differently, I won't feel the need to act on it.

Okay, I had lots of experience as a boy in the 70's & 80's but none as a leader.

When I came to the troop a year ago I knew things weren't they way that I'd grown up with. I talked with the Scoutmaster, who was brand new himself (not new to troop, just to the job.) He told me about what he'd learned at training and about where he saw us going. I was encouraged.

So...a year later I take all of the courses required to be a trained SM/ASM. Boy are we missing the boat. I'd never heard of a new Scout patrol and I was convinced it was a good idea. I already knew our elections were being held wrong (appoint SPL and PL and vote for everyone else.)

Now I don't just think I know better, do know better. I know how far off our troop is. I gently brought this up to the Scoutmaster, who listened politely and said "This is the way we've always done it, and this is the way the PLC wants to do it."

The way we've always done it brought 1 new Scout in last year. My son, who has advanced all of the way to Tenderfoot in one year. In November we had an entire patrol transfer in. Because of their link to to pack we will have 8 boys bridging this month from one Webelos den. All will be immdeiately assimilated into patrols.

I already knew things were askew, and figured I would help be an agent of change. Now I worry about my ability to do that. Other adults don't know any better and probably feel that ignorance is bliss. If they don't know this only simulates Scouts, they won't be anxious about it.

Hmmm...Woodbadge in the fall? I don't know if I can take it.

Well Kittle,

My wife and I will sit for you if you wnat to go to training here in San Diego.

Seriously though, I would hazard a guess that another parent in your unit would be willing to watch your kid(s) while you are gone for a day or weekend.

Just a suggestion (for what it is worth)

I hope you made it to the Basic training.

Mike F. - Well I can't say as I agree with decision to exclude or with your Lodge Elections Advisor for that matter. However, I completely agree with your choice of timing. Our Lodge send teams out in January and February. Our Troop's last election was held on a night when we had 10 Webelos visiting, so they saw the presentation, but were not able to vote.

Okay this will be overly simplistic.

Let's do the program, the way the program is meant to work.

That means using all the methods in all the troops.

Forgive my ignorance, but Eamonn posted about a "Religious Observance course." Is this a Woodbadge course. Is there one on the West Coast.

I googled "woodbade religious observance" and came up with nothing but this posting. Does anyone have a link to such an event. Is this the same program that will be at Philmont (but I don't think that's a Woodbadge"

Thanks

Mike F. I hope you don't mean we should intentionally exclude new Scouts. I think that it is important that new Scouts be present for the election and be given the opportunity to vote, if they feel that they want to. Order of the Arrow is an honor that held up before all Scouts to see, to understand, and hopefully to aspire to. It should inspire them to be honor campers.

However, it is extremely critical that we stress the difference between a blank ballot and no ballot. This year one of our boys was not elected because of a blank ballot.

Okay here goes sorry if it's long,

A Scout is Trustworthy - The summer I turned 18, I worked consturction on the night shift. I was a little reckless and did some donuts with the forklift and left skid marks everywhere. The next day every employee was called in to the owner's office to be questioned. I worked with many people of questionable character and he was certain it was one of them. I came in that night and he had fired the whole evening shift confident that none of the 3 of us at night had done it and that they were lying. I confessed and took my punishment. When I left several people on the crew that had been fired were hangin aroudn in the parking lot and I relayed the story. One of the crew (who was probably the least trustworthy) looked at me and said "I didn't think it was you, but I knew that if it was, you'd tell him." It made me feel good to know that my character stood out.

Two day s later I got a call from the owner, who said that if I'd come in and clean up the skid marks he'd hire me back. He didn't want to lose someone like me.

A Scout is Helpful/Do a Good Turn Daily - This plays out in so many ways. Perhaps one of the most common recently is the use of my tow strap. I pull about one person a month off the road, out of an intersection or to a gas station.

A Scout is Reverent, Duty to God - Hmmm. Just look at my Username

Be Prepared - Thanks to the first aid I learned as a Scout I have had two occasions where I can clearly attest to those skills saving a life. One was simply a matter of restoring an open airway and the person began breathing. The other was a major head trauma from a motorcycle accident in the desert. It was over 30 minutes before the sherrif showed up and then he left to tell the medics where to land the helicopter, 20 more minture later. I had to restore breathing and stop hemreging from the head. Apparently I did things right because they worked around me for almost an hour. Two people who can be thankful for my SPL's, and Scoutmasters.

Physically fit - Oh here's where I have stumbled. Even as a Scout I was always one of the heaviest. In the years to follow I went the wrong way going well into the 300's. This past year, as I have become involved once again, I began to think about my role model vs. my rolls of fat. Since January of this year I have lost 35 lbs and treadmill at least 3 times a week, sometimes 5. While I have a ways to go, I'm on the way. It was a great joy to go hiking with my son and another boy a couple of weeks ago and not feel winded after topping a hill.

I believe without a doubt that God put me in Scouts to form me into the person that I am. So much of the positive things in my life are a direct reflection of being in Scouting from Seven to Twenty-one.

In my troop as a boy, I had two long term leaders, both of which were very positively influential on me.

The first was a single man, who had been a Life Scout himself, and deeply loved the program. He was odd in a wonderful way.

The second was a married man with boys in the troop. He had only minimal Scouting in his background.

I could spend all day telling you about how wonderful they were. However, one probably would not pass through review now (rightly so) because he was arrested several times in the park of a neighboring community for indecent exposure. (Something I found out several years later, I don't think any parents knew about it then.)

My point...we need to be vigilant about our two-deep leadership but DO NOT rule out the single men. I can say with confidence that I would not be an Eagle if not for one.

One more vote for the earring being okay.

This is a standard the parents should set, not the troop.

We use Individual Scout Accounts. The funds are received through fundraisers or direct deposits by parents. Our most effective fundraiser is monthly aluminum cans. For my son that's about $10 per month. We also charge an annual activity fee to cover registration, Boy's Life, badges, new troop and patrol gear, etc.

On the negative side, the troop has the patrol grubmaster go and shop for the food (with his parents' money). Then he submits the receipt and is repaid by the treasurer. The cost is subsequently deducted from the accounts. That regularly leads to shopping that is less than "Thrifty" and costs that are out of line.

I love the "Account Wtihdrawl Slip" idea. It puts more of the financial planning on the boys.

I used this on my son's uniform. It held the small badges on well. The larger ones, espeically the CSP tended to peel at the ends. When removed, it left a mark that does not wash out.

For me, I'm sticking to needle and thread.

Anybody want to buy half a can?