9muckraker7

Great analyses...I agree with everyones'. It saddens me to see those scouts who fall in the third category. I know several of them, some of whom have come very close to earning eagle, but they rarely go to meetings or on camping trips with their troop. Their "troop" (I use this term loosely) consisted almost entirely of such scouts who just didn't care. The patrol method was almost entirely absent in their troop program, and camping trips were simply a means of hanging out and complaining about there being nothing to do. I was extremely surprised and troubled to learn that one of the adult leaders of the troop actually cleaned the pots and pans after the boys cooked and ate a meal. Eventually, as their troop was beginning to dissolve because of a lack of interest, the troop got a new scoutmaster who actually wanted to introduce some sort of correct program to the troop. The scoutmaster tried, enforcing the patrol method and promoting camping and high-adventure for the older scouts, but his efforts were no use in swaying the boys' disinterest in scouting. Still, I manage to maintain a cheerful spirit as I look into the eyes of the younger scouts of my troop and realize their potential. I've stayed in scouting long enough to come to love it, and only by continuing in service to my troop can I ensure that those younger scouts will also come to love scouting.

I agree with wojauwe on this one in that an arrowman's first responsibility is to his troop, and not to his lodge; however, it is still good to be helpful around the lodge whenever possible. So long as a scout or scouter applies the lessons learned through his ordeal in serving his unit, the obligation of the Order of the Arrow is being fulfilled. Though the Order of the Arrow is, like scouting, a youth-lead organization, adult training and leadership is often needed, especially on the chapter level (if the chapters aren't quite as developed as they should be). Once the lodge and chapters become well developed in youth leadership and program, there is little need for adult "involvement." As someone mentioned before, adult selection for OA membership is based on what service or skill they could provide to the lodge and/or council. Still, the arrowman's first responsibility is to his/her unit. If one cannot become involved in the OA because he/she is already heavily involved with serving his/her unit, then there's nothing wrong with that. If such a busy arrowman wants to help out the lodge in any way, he/she should pay his dues and integrate the troop rep. program of the lodge into his/her unit.

A good length of rope combined with a knowledge of knots and lashings is the most important tool one can have when working outdoors. All knots have their own uses and therefore the usefulness of a knot depends on how often you come across the right situation to use it. If you're a climber, a figure eight on a bight might be more useful than a taut line or clove hitch; if you're a fisherman, then a square knot or bowline wouldn't be too useful in tying a fishing line; if you work in the outdoors and you need to move a fallen tree, a timber hitch would be more useful than two half hitches. Most people find little use for a sheep shank; however, to people who work in or around ships and boats, the sheep shank is invaluable. To me, however, the most useful knot would have to be the sheet bend. I always end up overestimating the length of the rope when I go to tie things. The sheet bend is an easy knot to tie two ropes together, it's more trustworthy than the square knot (less likely to slip) and doesn't jam up as easily as the square knot does under tension (especially if you make a slippery sheet bend). To make a non-slip loop, the bowline would probably be the more common choice of knot, but I find that the bowline on a bight and the figure eight on a bight are easier to tie, they're less likely to slip (or jam up for that matter), AND they're easier on the rope. A knot that jams up (like a granny knot, for example) and is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to untie usually decreases the strength of the rope... Eye splices are excellent to use IF you have them tied BEFORE you need to use them; otherwise, stick with the knots. Some knots can be improved by combining the concepts of two knots: a figure eight knot can be added at the short end of a bowline to increase security; a timber hitch can be secured around a log with one or two half hitches. I've learned most of my knots from boy scouts; aside from learning the 8 basic knots from the boy scout handbook, I've picked up other knots taught in some merit badge classes: fishing, pioneering, and climbing for example. I once saw a demonstration of a navy veteran tying a monkey's fist, and I quickly picked it up.

Welcome back, Eamonn. You're right in taking the quote "the Great Eamonn" as a compliment; it was intended to be so. I was browsing through earlier posts and when I came across that post, I felt it necessary that others (including yourself and Bob White) should read and be reminded of your words regarding such a pertinent topic. Once again, I welcome you back to the forums, and look forward to reading about your experiences and insights.

FROM THE WORDS OF THE GREAT EAMONN: (advising Bob White to stay) While Mr Bob White and I do not at times see eye to eye. I have said that He WOULD be a welcome addition to the District Committee, on which I serve. Sad to say Bob, that I think that you are not right about this one. If you stop posting. Not only will I lose out on your opinions which I do value. It also means that I miss out on disagreeing with you. While I don't wish to be rude about Mr Fat Old Guy. I would think that most of the people who read and post in this forum can see what is right and what is wrong. As everyone knows, there have been times when I have been wrong. Not so long ago I got on my high horse about something and was in the wrong. Then I remember that our Man Of Steele, got upset when I called DE's "Nitwits" !!! When I stick my foot in my mouth. I do try to put it right. We have a lot of really outstanding people in this forum. I really do think that 99.9% are it this for the good of our youth. Please count yourself in this number. We have both been in this organization to know that there will always be a few who just don't get "It." I would also hope that I'm not the only one who can see that at times you do have your tongue in your cheek. You will of course do as you see fit. But I for one would hope that you reconsiser. Please don't let the 0.01% hold the winning hand. Eamonn

Could someone please tell me WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS WHOLE "STROM THURMAN HYPOCRISY" HAVE TO DO WITH SCOUTING???

Personally, I think that the immediate past edition of the scout handbook (I think it's the tenth edition, if the current edition is the eleventh) is A LOT more informative than the current handbook, mostly because it contains valuable field information regarding nature and astronomy, something the new book doesn't really do...

I really don't have much advice to offer other than the a troop is a lot different than a webelos den...in theory. The older boy scouts should be more mature than the younger webelos, and it is mainly up to the youth leadership of the troop to set an example. In a webelos den, there really isn't any youth leadership, and therefore it should be mainly the parents' responsibility to see that the boys are maturing, and to prevent bullying. Though it isn't solely the parents' responsibility, as the cub scouts should mature as a result of experiences, the adults of the pack/den should be aware of what goes on socially among the boys. I agree with what everyone else has been saying regarding this topic: mention the problem to an adult, and/or become active in the troop as a committee member or other adult leader. Have faith that your son would eventually find acceptance in scouting...

I don't find them irritating, but rather informative and insightful. Often if the senior forum members demonstrate arrogance, it's always in good spirits, in an effort for them to stand up for what they think is right. I did, however, find the debates posted in the patrol method section between FOG and BW extremely hilarious...

I'm not sure as to whether venturing crews could hold elections for the OA (I'll take the senior forum members' word that they can't), BUT I understand that if you were elected as a boy scout, you can indeed be active in the OA with a venturer's membership. There are many venturers in my lodge, many of whom are of the vigil honor; some of whom hold important lodge leadership positions. Also, I understand that in order for one to have OA membership, one must be active in his/her unit. Several scouts' troops in my lodge have broken up, or for whatever reason those scouts are no longer able to be active in a particular troop, so they in turn join a venturing crew, and retain their OA membership.

I'd like to start a forum to share different ideas on cooking on camping trips... any special recipes or cooking methods anyone would like to share. My troop has done a lot of cooking in the past; past meals include: lobster, clams, shrimp, scallops, and potatoes (put all those food items into a mesh bag and boil them together), filet mignon, shovel-pancakes and chocolate chip shovel-cookies (pancakes and cookies cooked on a shovel), fried oreos, and a roasted turkey. I would like to know if anyone in here has ever roasted a suckling pig on a camping trip. I would like to do that sometime in the near future, but I do not have much of an idea as to how it needs to be done. If anyone has any information regarding pig-roasting, or if anyone would like to share any creative meals they've cooked on a camping trip, feel free to post in this forum.

I was just wondering, what is the BSA policy in throwing a scout out of the troop? Sure, blatant and obscene obstructions of rules and regulations regarding such things as violence and whatnot could indeed provoke such a drastic doing, but can something as simple as youthful "disrespect" be a reason for throwing a kid out of a troop? If so, is it the scoutmaster's and/or committee's decision to do so, or must the decision be presented to the local district or council?