Hedgehog

We ran into the 'troop only' thing as well. I can't understand why this situation is allowed to exist. Why bother to list MBCs to whom no one outside of specific troops have access? It makes no sense.

I think that the councils / districts keep a single list of merit badge counselors which includes the Troop Only and when you ask for it you get the list with everyone on it, including the folks designated as Troop Only.

Not having a good list of district MBC's sounds like a real hindrance to your district..Perhaps you can ask around at a round table.. You may find one that isn't known because of the poor list, or one that usually works with a troop, but when asked will come to your aid.. Or perhaps someone still in the Cub Scout program, who has yet to think about being an MBC but one of the ones you are asking about it aligns with their occupation..  When we were about to leave the troop (son aged out) they found someone who wasn't in Scouting but was willing to do all 3 Citizens... Some one in our troop was a lawyer and she approached a state judge to see if he would offer them..

The main problem is that when our district transferred councils (our old counsil disbanded and the districts went to nearby councils), they had everyone resubmit merit badge applications and adult applications (even if we were registered as leaders).  The new council is now going though that to prepare a new list which should be done by this summer.  I have the old list (from about 18 months ago), but most of the Citizenship and Communcation counselors in the area are listed as being "Troop Only."  On that basis, I decided it easiest to recruit home grown talent.

I am already approved for Citizenship in the World, we have several other adults (lawyers, teachers, folks involved in town poitics, etc.) who can qualify as MBCs for the other badges.  My task is to get the commitment from these folks to get certified as MBC and to get the commitment to hold the classes -- I don't want to tell the boys that the don't need to take them at camp unless I'm sure they will have the opportunity to take these classes with the Troop.

Should we take this to mean that the parents are pressuring you to make sure the boys do these Eagle Scout-required badges at camp instead of hiking, backpacking, mountain biking and camping under the stars?  Should we take this to mean that the parents are pressuring/coercing the unit leaders into doing merit badges as a unit instead of leaving it to the boys to handle it?

It is the boys own choice.  They are motivated boys who are working toward Eagle.  They know that those are the required merit badges that they need to move from Life to Eagle.  Our summer camp offers all of Citizenship and Communcaitions merit badges as part of a "Trai to Eagle" program.  Last year our Troop started a Venture Patrol at summer camp where the boys in the Venture patrol did camping, backpacking, mountain biking, etc.  My discussion with the boys went something like "Are you doing the Venture patrol this year?" "I don't think we can because we have to do the Trail to Eagle thing because otherwise we don't know how we will get those badges."  My response to them was "Let me see what I can do" because a scout leader is helpful.  

In my mind, the easiest solution is to have the Troop run classes for those badges because:  1) our district's MBC list is a mess due to switching counsels; 2) most MBCs for those badges in the area (based on my old MBC list) are "Troop Only"; 3) it would require a lot more effort for the 5 boys to each work with 4 different counselors on the badges independently rather than as part of a class; 4) we have some adults in the Troop that are qualified and interested in teaching the merit badges; and 5) the adults in the Troop tend to do a better job with merit badges than camp counselors.  

Also, for clarification, when I talk about "doing merit badges as a Troop"  I mean one of the adults associated with the Troop (parents and leaders) teaching a class with 5 to 8 kids who want to do the merit badge -- not doing it at a Troop meeting and not doing it for all the scouts at once.  Our Troop merit badges are done in small groups over 4 to 6  hour long "classes" before Troop meetings.

My point is that the "classroom" type merit Eagle required badges seem to be out of sorts with my idea of what Scouting should be.

OK, I'm may have been paraphrasing a paraphrasing with the "Scouting is a game for boys played in the outdoors."

The aphorism "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose" is often attributed to Lord Baden-Powell, but it makes its first appearance in the Boy Scouts of America's third edition of Handbook for Scoutmasters in 1936, written by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. 

The rough idea of Scouting as a purposeful game is introduced in "Chat 2," "The Game of Scouting," on page 24 under the heading "Scouting in a Nutshell:" 

 

Here, then, is Scouting in a nutshell: A game for boys under the leadership of boys with the wise guidance and counsel of a grown-up who has still the enthusiasm of youth in him. A purposeful game, but a game just the same, a game that develops character by practice, that trains for citizenship--through experience in the out-of-doors [emphasis in the original]. 

 

http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/scouting_game_purpose.htm

This is what makes Scouting different from school or clubs or church.  It is the idea of teaching character through games played in the woods.  Being able to take care of yourself is completely different in a week at Computer Camp while living at home than a week at summer camp with your Troop.  Take care of your buddies has a completely different meaning when you are on a backpacking trip with 8 guys than when you are sitting in a class with 30 other kids.

I joke with the guys that most merit badges have two components- the "needs to be done" and the stuff that is fun.  The stuff that is fun is all done in the outdoors.  The merit badges that don't have the fun component should be revised or eliminated or made optional.  

I have a bunch of guys that would love to spend summer camp hiking, backpacking, mountain biking and camping under the stars as part of a Venture Patrol but unless I coordinate some other adults to handle the Citizenship and Communications badges as a Troop, those guys will be spending summer camp in "school" being pencil whipped.  At the end of the week, which do you think would have those boys grow more in responsibility, confidence and the principles of the Scout Law?

Yeah, that's a delusion.  Rank skills requirements are about producing a member of a group and a reasonably proficient camper.  It's very very different than producing an rugged outdoors-man or a survivalist.  

 

Merit badges selection is not the answer either as merit badges are "introductory" and much less than "certifications" of ability.   Very few are advanced beyond introductory, maybe backpacking.

They are somewhere in between introductory and certifications.  Backpacking requires a 30 mile treck, Camping requires 20 nights in the outdoors, Bicycling requires a 50 mile ride, Cooking requires preparing three meals in the outdoors and at home, Hiking requires a 20 mile hike, Scuba requires PADI certification, etc.

Isn't the Baden Powel quote that "Scouting is a game for boys played in the outdoors"? 

We're at $125 with no monthly dues. Scouts get a $25 credit to Scout Account if they sell at least $25 of popcorn and then 15% of what they sell over $200. We increased the fees last year due to a lack of fundraising. The parents sense was they would rather pay $50 more than worry about fundraising. We're hoping to use the extra funds to purchase new lightweight tents for the boys.

We charge for each outing based on actual costs. We take the site cost and divide by 20 (the minimum number of scouts on a typical outing) add any per person site fee and then add food ($3 breakfast, $3 lunch, $5 dinner and dessert) plus a $1 charge for consumables such as propane, charcoal and paper towels.

We have the adults pay the same amount as the scouts. The adults that come on campouts don't have a problem with that because we eat very well. We only reimburse for gas when it is more than 130 miles.

I took over a troop and there were two boys Life working on Eagle.  I asked one of them to start a fire so the Grubmaster could start some breakfast charcoal.  (I hadn't worked the troop into full Boy Led yet.  Needless to say, the boy couldn't get a fire started.  The Grubmaster couldn't cook either.  and these were all scouts 14+ years old.  It was really kinda sad.

That I don't understand.  The first two things any scout learns in our Troop is how to handle a knife and how to start a fire.  On our winter campout, we had contests to see who could start a fire in 18 inches of snow using wood they could find around the campout.  In 5 minutes the boys had  nice fires going that they were able to maintain.

At this weeks meeting, in response to the announcement that we will be doing an orienteering course, a recent crossover said, "I don't know how to use a map and compass."  The PL responded, "don't worry, we'll teach you."

We had a backpacking trip scheduled in March (which was turned into a shakedown hike because the temperature was supposed to drop down to 13 degrees at night).  We had more scouts who had never been backing before ready to go on that trip than experienced scouts.

The bottom line is that most boys want to go outside and play and get dirty.  As I told the boys coming back from the shakedown hike, "Tell your parents that I said that Boy Scouts is the one activity that you can come home covered in mud and your parents have to say 'good job.'"  Build an strong outdoor program and they will come.

What about backpacking?  I think that backpacking is an essential outdoor skill for a Boy Scout.  

My list:

Camping

Backpacking

Citizenship Everywhere

Cooking (removing the cooking requirements in Camping and Backpacking)

First Aid

Wilderness Survival

Emergency Preparedness

Q:  "How do you fufill your duty to God?"

A:  "Every religion that I'm familiar with has a emphasis on respecting people and helping others.  I think those ideas are reflected in the scout law in being trustworthy, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind and reverent.  I do my best to fulfill the ideas in the scout law.  Let me give you some examples..."

Q: "Do you believe in God?"

A:  "When you are on a hike and reach the top of a mountain and look for miles at the beauty of valleys, lakes, forests and fields, it is impossible not to believe that there is something greater than ourselves that inspires us to be better people."

Check the box, move on.

Most states have passed good samaritan laws to protect people who are acting within their level of training.  That changes the outcome of your third situation.  That is, if you do something by acting within your training you can't be held liable (unless of course your actions are grossly negligent - i.e. putting on a torniquet for a mesquito bite).

However, the EpiPen is different in that it is only availabe for use under a doctor's (direct or indirect) supervision.  Even the use of EpiPens by EMTs is required to be under a doctor's supervision.  I cannot obtain an EpiPen to have "just in case" a scout who never had a bee sting before has a severe reaction.  However, I see that the law is catching up with common sense in developing workarounds for schools and colleges.  

@ - Agreed, Benadryl is proper to use for an allergic reaction and may serve as a last resort to treat anaphalactic shock.  I didn't think about carrying the quick dissolve or liquid - just have the generic tablets in the medical bag.

I have two not inexpensive, but quality options for pants.  I really like the BSA green synthetic switchback pants.  You can actually put stuff in the pockets without them falling down.  I liked the first pair so much, I picked up a second.  The only downside is that they need to be hemmed.  The other pair of pants I have a Columbia Silver Ridge Convertible.  They are great, but if you put too much weight in the pockets, the belt has a hard time holding them up (which is not a problem if you put your wallet, cell phone and knife in a day pack).

For shirts, I have some great BSA "Tech" or "Performance" shirts.  Also, you can pick up Target's C9 brand shirts in both t shirts and polo shirts.

SorrIf one has a problem with supporting all 12 of the Scout Laws, maybe one ought to be asking oneself these questions and not just the boys.  So lets not start with A Scout is Reverent, lets start with A Scout is Brave and work from there.

I like the approach of asking questions related to the Scout Law and Oath.  It's all right there really.  Every time I see a scout not doing what they are supposed to, I go back to the scout law.  All it takes is a "Bob, remember a scout is courteous"  or "Tommy, remember a scout is helpful."  Every time I see a scout accomplish something, it goes back to the oath.  "Good job on making the 5 mile hike. You didn't think you could do it, but you tried and suceeded.  A scout is brave."  "I know you didn't want to do clean-up but thank you for not complaining.  A Scout is cheerful."

I don't view Scouting as a faith-based program but as a program designed to build character.  To me, character is embodied in the Scout Law and Scout Oath.  Those values are what I was raised with and are the values that my wife and I are teaching to my son.  We can't teach values without talking about them.  

Is it odd to single out one part of the Law and Oath?  Maybe.  But each rank requirement in Cub Scouts has a faith requirement.  I suspect that this is a reaction to the perception that the Duty to God was being passed over or ignored until an Eagle BOR.

The bottom line is that the program is only as good as the people who implement it.  I've had discussions with boys regarding religion on backpacking trips.  Many of them are at a point where they are questioning the existence of God and the idea of faith.  They tell me their concerns, I tell them that it is normal to question their faith, I explain to them why I believe in my faith (which reasons would be applicable to most other faiths) and tell them that I think a faith that you choose to believe in is more powerful than one you are taught to believe in.  One scout actually said that he wanted to talk to an adult about it other than his pastor or his parents.  

Anaphylactic shock really scares me and I have never understood why epi pens are so hard to get a hold of in the US.  I man a bee sting or a missed placed peanut can cause major issues and make me have to make a phone call I never want to have to make.   Has anybody had any experience with giving a kid going in to anaphylactic shock a hole bottle of Benadryl ?

Typically, people with severe allergic reactions will be aware of that ahead of time.  The proper proceedure is that there should be two EpiPens - one on the body of the scout (with a buddy knowing where it is located) and the other with a leader trained (at a minimum) in Wilderness First Aid.  I was trained to have the scout hold the pen and to assist them in administering it.  

i know you are joking, but Benadryl is not an appropriate treatment for anaphylactic shock and under no conditions should you ever use a whole bottle.  For proper treatment see here:  http://www.mayoclinic.org/first-aid/first-aid-anaphylaxis/basics/art-20056608

New Jersey recently passed legislation permitting colleges to administer EpiPens through "trained designees" under a "licensed campus medical professional" without a prescription.

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2012/Bills/PL13/211_.HTM

The bill was supported by Princeton University's Outdoor Action group which activities very similar to scouting.  A good idea would be to expand to scouting for people with Wilderness First Aid training.

We have Troop Guides assigned to each patrol.  At the PLC meeting, we encourage the TGs to touch base with certain scouts who should be advancing.  With newer scouts, we encourage them to talk to the guides about what they need for First Class advancement and how to get it.  When we see a scout is really floundering, the first question (as an ASM) that I ask is "do you want to sit down and talk about what you need to do?"  If the answer is yes, I tell them to bring their book next week and that we can come talk to me during the Patrol break out sessions.  If they don't talk to me the next week or forget to bring their book, we reschedule for the following week.  The sit down is usually includes the a JASM or TG or ASPL who are there to offer to help.  It is a combination and balance of boy-led and adult interaction and it requires the scout to take some responsibility in brining their book and approaching me at the next meeting.  The follow up is done by the TG and with an occasional "how's it going" from me.

I think that the boys can learn different styles of cooking while camping.  When we do a basecamp, we bring one gear box per patrol:

 http://www.lowes.com/pd_44066-61896-44066_0__?productId=3551290&Ntt=storage+box&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dstorage%2Bbox&facetInfo=) 

one Coleman two burner stove, two dutch ovens and a foldable table.  That is the same gear that I would bring if I was going basecamping with my family (except I have a sturdier gear box and Coleman Roadtrip stove / grill which takes up a little more space).  At basecamp, they learn to cook and cleanup as a patrol.  When we go backpacking, each scout is responsible for cooking their own food although we encourage them to buddy up for efficiency.

I agree that the fancy trailers are difficult to replicate once you leave scouting, but I think it is important for the boys to learn patrol style cooking skills.  That being said, if the boys could sell a little more popcorn, I'd love one of these:

http://prestigefoodtrucks.com/big-smoke-burger/

Also, it would be a good idea to champion the idea that Deet does NOT go on the skin!  You are supposed to put it on clothing only!  I repeat, NOT ON THE SKIN.  READ THE LABEL!

Stosh:

I think you are confusing DEET with Permethrin.  DEET is applied to skin:  http://www2.epa.gov/insect-repellents/deet

I think there need to be Eagle-required MB's. I do not think there need to be 13 of them. I think National needs to learn to make tough decisions and cut the list down to 10 or 11. Instead, National is afflicted with what I call Good Idea Syndrome. They implement every Good Idea that comes along. Having Cooking be required is a Good Idea. Same for Family Life, each of the three Citizenships, Communications, and all the rest. All Good Ideas, but add them all together and you have an imbalance between required and elective MBs. Same with the National this award and the National that award. All Good Ideas, but all together it's all too much.

I'm not sure why there are THREE Citizenship badges.  This is coming from an attorney who was a Political Science major in college and who is married to someone who heads up one of the partisan staffs for the state legislature.  It's too much.  I remember a bumper sticker when I was growing up "Think Globally, Act Locally" and Tip O'Neal's maxim that "All Politics Are Local."  Based on those ideas, why not have one Citizenship badge with three components?

I'm an MBC on Family Life and Personal Management.  I recognize that the skills and knowledge in those areas is important, but, the material is so boring.  I'd rather have Backpacking and Wilderness Survival be required-- at least you typically don't learn those skills at home or at school.

On the other hand, I'm glad they made Cooking Eagle required.  I have a lot of fun working with the boys on that one.  We spend a day cooking in my back yard and the parents join us for the dinners and desserts cooked by the boys.  I actually had one boy sign up who had earned the merit badge at camp but wanted to cook and eat with his buddies.  Cooking is a skill you will use throughout life.

I do like the idea of catagories and having the boys pick from each catagory.  That allows the boys to choose their own path.  As I tell my son, the journey you take to Eagle tells a story about who you are. The less requirements the more personal the journey.

It's always difficult with your own son.  Two good questions:  "What do you want to take at camp?"  [insert answer].  "How does that fit in with what you need for advancement?"  [insert answer].  

My son has set his own goals for advancement. He did First Class within 15 months and is almost at Star -- he just needs one more month as a Den Chief.  His goal is to be Life by next February and then take two years to work toward Eagle completing it in 10th grade.

He picked up Swimming his first year at camp.  Last summer he choose what he wanted - First Aid, Kayaking, Wood Carving and Archery.  He didn't get the scores he needed to get the Archery merit badge.  Outside of camp, he's completed Cooking and Family Life (after almost a year); he is almost done Camping (he has done all the "doing" requirements but his MBC for that one is a real pain about making sure he knows everything for the discussion requirements   ) and is working on Backpacking (still needs a 3 day trip and a 5 day trip) and Personal Fitness.  I asked him what he wanted to do this summer, his answer was Horsemanship, Sailing and Emergency Preparedness while completing Archery.  I asked about him doing Orienteering but he said he wanted that period to practice sailing.  If he wraps up all the ones he is working on, he has what he needs for Life and then some.  Who am I to argue?

I think the key is for the boys to enjoy the journey.  Let them pick what they want to do.  It does work out.

There have been 57 cases of the Powassan virus reported over the last 10 years in the United States according to the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/powassan/index.html

In 2011 through 2013 there was an average of 10 cases per year.  http://www.cdc.gov/powassan/statistics.html

The breakdown by state from  2004 through 2014 is Maine (2), Massachusetts (1), Minnesota (20), New Hampshire (1), New Jersey (1), New York (17), Pennsylvania (1), Virginia (1) and Wisconsin (13).  Curiously, none of those cases are in Connecticut where the story was published.

Of those, 10% were fatal. http://www.cdc.gov/powassan/symptoms.html.  That would be 6 fatalities over 10 years.  

In contrast, there were 14 deaths by bear attacks ( http://www.backpacker.com/news-and-events/news/trail-news/ask-a-bear-how-many-bear-attacks-really-2/), fatalities from lightning strikes (http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/fatalities.htm) and over 3,500 boating related drowning deaths and 35,000 non-boat related drowning deaths (http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html).

That bring said, this is just another reason to teach tick bite prevention - wear bug spray (including spraying on socks) and do a tick check every night and know your different ticks (http://www.esd.ornl.gov/facilities/nerp/Ticks.pdf) because only Deer Ticks cary this disease and Lyme disease.

it has been discussed that marshmallows should be banned form our pack camps.  They always end up as torches, falling out of the pit and stuck to a shoe, or flinging through the air.....

The key to a perfect roasted marshmallow is that you cook them over the coals and not the open flames.  We would let the campfire die down to red coals, demonstrate the proper way of roasting marshmallows and then let the scouts try.  That reduced the number of flaming, charred and flung marshmallows by 50%.  Then we could just throw a couple of logs back on to get the campfire roaring.  

There are really two teaching opportunities here.  One is for scouts to learn to (as Stosh says) take care of each other.  The other is for scouts with dietary restrictions or allergies to learn to take care of themselves.  

Most of the religious restrictions on food can be handled by a vegitarian menu.  Both Jewish (Kosher), Hindu and Islamic (Halal) can be met this way.  The easy solution (as mentioned above) is to cook the meat separately and those interested can add it to their plate.  The key is making sure there are sources of protein for those boys.  Vegan is a little bit harder.  However, one of our ASM's brought some tofu sausages for breakfast on the last campout and they were great!

Maybe, in terms of allergies, there is a third teachable moment here about having the scouts to be aware of what they are putting in their bodies by looking at ingredients.  My favorite part of working with scouts on the cooking merit badge is having them try to pronounce and then research all of the ingredients of some foods.

Les Stroud says, "Nothing is more useful in a survival situation than a good, heavy-duty multi-tool."

The screw driver, pliers, toothpick, nail file, 2 inch dull saw and sissors are truly indispensible for survival.

Totally agree, I use the cork screw and bottle opener on my Swiss Army all the time.  In a survival situation, the can opener has got to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I like your idea of a survival situation -- a good bottle of wine, some bottles of beer and a couple of cans of food. Throw in some steaks and I'm there! 

Tahawk~

Your post is going to cost me a lot of money.   I had to click on the link to the SOG website - I've fallen in love with the Forge knife as well as the Seal Strike and Bowie 2.  

I think the most dangerous knives out there are the non-locking (usually multitool) folders.  Most parents think that should be the knife that a scout carries.  First off, the non-locking blade represents a danger of cloing on the scout's fingers.  Also, most of the blades are not that sharp -- parents are usually surprised to hear that a dull blade is more dangerous than a sharp blade.  Finally, they are heavy because of all the useless multitools.

I let parents know that one of the main reasons I'm involved with scouting is because I get to play with knives and fire.   I typically carry a OKC RAT folding knife or a Gerber Paraframe if I'm backpacking (lighter weight).  I also have an OKC Ranger 7 inch fixed blade sheath bushcraft knife (thinking about getting a Becker BK9 for my son).  I've taught most of the scouts how to use a bushcraft knife as a hatchet and to baton wood , how to use a smaller knife to make wood shavings or a fire stick.  The best is when you see those scouts teaching others.  What could be more fun than using knives to cut wood to make a fire?

As I'm reading this thread, I keep comming back to the idea that I have seen repeated again and again on these boards:  Train Them and Trust Them.  In areas of safety, that applies to leaders and scouts.

The little blue tablets we use for sanitizing are Steramine Tablets.  A bottle of 150 costs around $10 on Amazon.  It's been two years since I bought a bottle and it is still 1/2 full.  Just drop one tablet into a basin and pour cold water over it.  You might have to crush the tablet with a fork or start with a little hot water to get it to completely dissolve.  No liquid to be spilled in the patrol boxes, no scouts adding half the bottle of bleach to the water and no bleach stains on scout's clothing.

Patrol boxes have biodegradable natural detergent repackaged in a small squirt bottle with a flip lock lid (the type you get at any outdoor store) and a small plastic container with around 10 steramine tablets.  Instead of oil for Dutch Ovens, we use Crisco.  No mess in the boxes.

The three areas my guys need to improve on are:  1) scraping / wiping plates and cookwear before washing; 2) paper towel usage; and 3) straining wash water before disposal.  For the scraping / wiping, I was thinking of putting the garbage can at the beginning of the wash line thus adding a 4th step (scrape, wash, rinse and sanitize).  For the paper towel usage, we've started packing cotton dish towels and that has helped somewhat (as long as someone remembers to bring them home and wash them).  I've been looking around for a good strainer that is portable, but haven't found anything.   Any suggestions on these issues?

Oh no... I didn't mean to create a controversy!  On the swim test, that comment was raised in the context of using two person canoes on lake and in the context of new cross overs not being able to go at all because they hadn't passed the swim test last summer at camp.  Our solution was to require parents to accompany the new scouts (some of whom were better swimmers than the adults) rather than telling them they can't go period.  Sorry for the confusion on that.

I agree that Troops can set their own saftey rules in excess of G2SS, but too often adults go with rules they think are mandated by BSA because that is what their troop followed 20 years ago or what someone told them during training.

Ultimately, the best approach is to understand what the BSA limits are and then make a reasoned decision of any further restrictions that are necessary.