Faith

My den (wolf) currently has one scout that is in 1st grade. His mom held him back in Kindergarten (else he'd be in 2nd) and when he was signed up for scouts this year, the recruiters put him in our den instead of the Tigers due to his age. So far it hasn't caused any conflict but he is the appropriate age (he's actually older than some of our scouts that started school early due to how their birthday falls.) If a scout didn't meet the age or grade requirement, I'd suggest waiting.

Great job! We went from 1 Tiger, 10 Wolves, 6 Bears, 4 W1 & 1 W2 to 9 Tigers, 26 Wolves, 9 Bears, 9 W1 & 2 W2. We had similar numbers last year but due to lots of switching around with leadership and other factors that I'm told affect this kind of thing yearly, we lost most of that. Sincerely hoping we can do better this year (right now I'm the Wolf Den Leader and so far 16 have showed up to all our meets - may have to split the den if this keeps up.) Hope y'all can keep your numbers as well throughout the year

I never understood the big "controversy".

 

It is simple - Cubs can not earn awards for past, or future, levels. They earn the pin for the level they are IN.

 

A boy who graduates from kindergarten, and joins a Pack that June is a Tiger Cub Scout. If his Pack earns the Pack Summertime Award Streamer, and he attends a Pack activity in June, July, and August, he would earn his Tiger Summertime Award pin.

 

That Tiger Scout becomes a Wolf Cub Scout on the following June 1. He would then be eligible to earn his Wolf Summertime Award pin for activities attended that summer, as a Wolf Cub Scout.

 

The next summer, when he is a Bear, he can earn his Bear Summertime pin.

 

After graduating from 3rd grade, he becomes a Webelos Cub, and is eligible to earn his Webelos pin that summer.

 

As Webelos is the ONLY level that encompasses 2 summers (after 3rd grade, and after 4th grade), a Webelos is eligible to earn 2 Webelos Summertime Award pins.

That site's info along with a few others is exactly why I was confused. Since I helped coordinate this originally, I relayed all the information I found on it. I went on to assume (as stated earlier) that since we had a few brand new Tigers attend all those meets (which was obviously unknown at the time I turned over all the info), I understand why it was done the way it was. It was our pack's first time so I assume this is also how it'll be conducted from here on out (it would have to be to keep everyone who continues year to year from getting duplicates.)

Thank you SN I assume that is what we went by as well, which is fine. I was just confused as most sites that I have personally seen said the other way. I think its written that way online since so many don't have a chance at Tiger (last year we knew nothing about scouts until September, as only private schools had recruitment days in May 2012.) But the main thing is he earned it and was very proud - as am I I hope we can continue to try for it yearly!

I just read where someone asked this question in the thread below. Apologies for a duplicate, I had read that thread awhile back and that question had not yet been posted (it was only on the question in the first post.) So it seems lots of packs do it differently. Again, like I said, no big deal. I just expected it to go how the sites listed it. But then again, since we had new Tigers at the events this year, I guess it would be awkward to give them and our den both the Tiger pins.

Hi everyone. I had a question that ties in to a question I asked awhile back.

 

Our den earned the Summertime award for attending all the activities in June, July & August. They were working on Tiger rank last year and earned that this past February. We started working on the Wolf rank this past June. Since none of them were scouts last summer, they didn't have a chance at this award when starting out to earn the Tiger rank.

 

According to most sources I found online, they were to receive the award for the rank they just completed, not the one they were moving into. Last night they were given their pins for Wolf (and some new scouts that just joined in June got the Tiger one.) I was curious as to how your pack does it. At this point its moot, I'm glad they earned it and of course my son is not the least bit upset. I was just curious as we seemed to have done it differently than what I'd read about (I was the one who introduced the award to our pack for the first time back in March.)

I like the idea of the time span but I've already seen in my short time the burn out and strain it causes. I'm hoping that won't be the case for my son (or his den) but I saw what one year did to some, no idea what's up ahead for us (gonna try to stay optimistic.) If there was a better way to combine some of it and make less repetition, I think that would be a start.

My problem was trying to schedule wolves' date=' bears, and webelos in one. I think I'm stuck. Must try working this out some more. I can't get everything done, while working with all three and half the webelos having had 6 months to work on stuff before the others came in. I just can't do it all in 40 minutes. Perhaps we'll rotate and work on wolves one week, bears one week, and webelos on the other. Or maybe something will happen so I'm not responsible for all of them.[/quote']

 

I wanted to ask one thing about this, if you rotated them weekly like that and were one of the leaders to be at all these meetings, would this affect you personally as in burning out? Not sure how your pack meets go but that would have you doing something almost, if not, every single week. I'm a newbie to all this so this may be the norm for some. I just think having to do that on top of everything else that is added to our plates as den leaders would be very straining on you. Again, it all depends on where you are and who you're working with on how the work is distributed. But definitely consider yourself in this as well, before stretching yourself too thin. I do wish you the best of luck, that is quite a task to take on.

Yeah, you definitely have your ducks in order at least on this! Great job. My head was spinning just reading all that. Between just my job, two kids and the regular meetings I'm about beat. Those scouts are lucky to have you trying so hard to keep it fair and going for everyone. I really do hope more step up and lend a hand!

My problem was trying to schedule wolves' date=' bears, and webelos in one. I think I'm stuck. Must try working this out some more. I can't get everything done, while working with all three and half the webelos having had 6 months to work on stuff before the others came in. I just can't do it all in 40 minutes. Perhaps we'll rotate and work on wolves one week, bears one week, and webelos on the other. Or maybe something will happen so I'm not responsible for all of them.[/quote']

 

I wanted to ask one thing about this, if you rotated them weekly like that and were one of the leaders to be at all these meetings, would this affect you personally as in burning out? Not sure how your pack meets go but that would have you doing something almost, if not, every single week. I'm a newbie to all this so this may be the norm for some. I just think having to do that on top of everything else that is added to our plates as den leaders would be very straining on you. Again, it all depends on where you are and who you're working with on how the work is distributed. But definitely consider yourself in this as well, before stretching yourself too thin. I do wish you the best of luck, that is quite a task to take on.

We aim to have ours completed either by the end of the meet or we return and complete it the next meet. I love the idea of sending them home to let them finish them there but in the past, doing this showed me that a lot won't complete them (they'll flat out tell you nope, lol.)

Pie in the face of cubs chosen leader for reach $150 in popcorn sold. (Pie was shaving cream)

 

That is hilarious. We have so many jokers in our bunch, I wonder if they'd go for that since we didn't have much ideas on encouragement of sales. Great threat Jasper, hope to see more responses!

 

I've attended 9 pack meets so far, the best for us was the popcorn catapults into bins. They made the catapults as the gathering activity. The winners got samples of popcorn and Cubby to keep for a month.

For our Tigers we were doing one hour meetings twice a month. We're gonna try to do that again this year as Wolves and see how it works. The scouts who stuck with it were always on time except for one (every meeting they were late by 5-15 minutes, depending.) Now that they'll most likely be dropped off with myself and the assistant den leader, hoping that will encourage everyone to be on time. We always show up 20-25 minutes early to have everything set up and ready before the rest of the scouts arrive since I have the time.

Welcome to the forums! Glad to have you here

Wow, is right. You folks are brutal!

granted, she may have been in the wrong, but keep in mind that we are all trying to do our best. Seems like she was misguided and perhaps a bit overenthusiastic, but i'd guess she was only trying to do what she felt was right.

 

maybe there's a history here that I don't know..... & maybe I missed something critical in my skimming of this thread.....

 

but what I see is......

 

Came here for support.

Should have gotten some guidance.

Got flamed.

 

When I first joined this forum I thought it was a happy little family, helping one another out, etc. Booooy where did I get that idea from. You said exactly what I wanted to but words escaped me. Some of the adults here act like the teens I moderate on a day to day basis. Yes, she may have went against what most would have done or chose the flat out wrong way of handling it (again I don't know all the rules/regulations for this kind of thing so I personally cannot say) but some of the comments here are just downright rude and uncalled for. I've learned over the past month its easier for some to attack instead of inform - that's the way of the internet. Hopefully these same principles are not being taught to fellow scouts (if someone does wrong, explain why, don't stoop below your own level for the sake of being catty or cute.)

This thread has taught me to never, ever get involved in the financial side of scouting. Hope y'all get it sorted out GM and that it does not hurt the scouts' program in the long run.

I have seen cub scout lions for 5 year olds on this site a few times. Is this a BSA program or is it just being tested in a few places? My youngest son is only five but he wants to start cub scouts now after watching his older brothers get to do everything.

 

IMHO, this is a horrible idea. Just too young.

 

Guess it all depends on the children too. For me it would be wonderful as it would give my younger son something to do since he's was introduced to scouting at 2 via his brother. On the other hand, I know some 5 year olds who would not be able to participate in something like this (without going into specifics, you just know they are too young.) But then again the same can be said about some Tiger cubs (I have a few that are very attached to their parents, wondering how it'll go this year as Wolves when most of the parents won't stick around.)

Agreed. I look forward to seeing if we'll take part in this in the coming years. I think it would be a big help in recruiting earlier on as someone else stated. We shall see!

Our council (Northern Star) moved from the pilot phase of this program to full implementation last year. More than 75% of our packs have a Lion Cub Den. The program is very much like the old Tiger Cub program. There is one den meeting and one "Grand Adventure" (field trip) each month. At this time, Northern Star is the only council officially offering this program. I do not know if there are plans for a national implementation.

 

More info: http://www.northernstarbsa.org/YouthPrograms/CubScouts/LionCubs.aspx

 

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/Forms/Membership/LionCubsProgramFall%202012Info.pdf

 

Thanks for the information! Have you participated in it any specifically? Any significant issues you've run across so far? (Yes, I'm nosy.)

I have seen cub scout lions for 5 year olds on this site a few times. Is this a BSA program or is it just being tested in a few places? My youngest son is only five but he wants to start cub scouts now after watching his older brothers get to do everything.

 

IMHO, this is a horrible idea. Just too young.

 

Guess it all depends on the children too. For me it would be wonderful as it would give my younger son something to do since he's was introduced to scouting at 2 via his brother. On the other hand, I know some 5 year olds who would not be able to participate in something like this (without going into specifics, you just know they are too young.) But then again the same can be said about some Tiger cubs (I have a few that are very attached to their parents, wondering how it'll go this year as Wolves when most of the parents won't stick around.)

My youngest will turn 5 in 2014 but won't be in Kindergarten until 2015 (late birthday.) I haven't heard anything about our pack implementing this but it would definitely be interesting to see and I'd gladly sign him up as he also tags along to some den/pack meetings and loves them. I wish I could find more online on how it went for those who have already started it. Time to go nose around

I asked this same question the other day. This is what I found on MeritBadgeDotOrg: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Lion_Cub_Scouts

 

Wikipedia says "Lion Cub Scout, a kindergarten-age level in the Cub Scouting program of the Boy Scouts of America to be introduced in the 2014–2015 program year."

 

If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

 

I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

 

If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

 

While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

 

Boo, hiss. JBlake, I think in your 40+ years of volunteering, you must have forgotten what it's like to have young kids. Yes, you do sound like a "hard nosed Grinch" to quote your earlier post.

 

Since you are venting about spoiled volunteers who expect to *gasp* bring their young children with them while they volunteer all day with their older children instead of putting them in day care for the week as you suggested (really? In my area, that would cost about $300 for the week) -- I hope you won't mind me responding with my vent from the other side as a burned out volunteer momma.

 

Regardless of what you or anyone thinks is "fair", here are some facts:

 

1. Scouting can't happen without volunteers. Period. Without volunteer parents, there are no camps, no den meetings, nothing.

 

2. Good volunteers are hard to find. In our pack, less than 10% of the volunteers do all the work. I live in an area where most families have two working parents. I have grown very, very, very tired of people in our pack and in other kids' activities where I volunteer telling me: "Wow, you volunteer a lot. I wish I could, but I have a job."

 

A. Yes, I am a work at home mom. When my oldest was born, I chose to give up a very good six figure job and start part time writing work from home so I could spend more time with my kids and my family. I did *not* make that choice so a few dozen double income families in our pack, church program, etc. could make twice as much as our family and still have all these volunteer led groups for their children without contributing squat. In fact, I've had to chase some of them down for bounced checks, etc.

 

B. I am a work at home mom. I chose to greatly reduce my paycheck by working at home so I could have the flexibility to do things for *my* kids. Not so all of you could feel entitled to have me run around like a crazy person doing what you should be doing for *your* kids. Yes, I greatly resent the entitled attitude some people have -- to my time and effort. And don't even get me started about the drop and run parents who have the nerve to complain that the volunteer led program isn't up to their expectations.

 

3. So, if Scouting runs 100% on volunteer effort, and good volunteers are scarce in the best of circumstances, it only makes logical sense to make volunteering as cheap and easy as we can for the people we do get to volunteer. Simple logic, JBlake. For me to volunteer all day every day for a week in my son's Scout day camp, I have to give up my work time and income, and pay for all of my kids to attend the camp. That's more than enough. If you actually expect me to also pay $300 to arrange a week of day care for my daughter, you are out of your mind.

 

4. I am tired of having my little daughter referred to as a "tag along". Her name is Jennifer. She is very well behaved. She's not a nuisance.

 

Over half of our pack's leaders are moms, all with preschoolers or babies. If you want us to buy the food, wash the dishes, haul the stuff to camp, cook your food, etc. while the very few volunteer dads do the fun stuff with their sons like Pinewood and archery, you had better not give me any, repeat any, flak about bringing my precious well-behaved little girl with me. I already feel like the pack scullery maid. Do not suggest that I pay for that privilege.

 

Here's the deal. Last year, I started out as treasurer. Then, I was asked to be webmaster. Somewhere along the way, our committee chair decided I was his personal assistant and pack recordkeeper, and I started getting calls all the time to look up who paid for this, or who signed up for that. Then, the advancement chair moved out of state, and I was told "well, I guess you're the advancement chair now since you know about computers". Not asked, assumed. Then, no one volunteered to lead camp cards, so I got stuck with that job since I'm the treasurer, and I had to pay for the things. Oh, and the camping chair did squat as well. Since, as treasurer, I'm buying the food, paying for the campsite, and taking payments from parents, he just made himself scarce and let me take care of the rest of it.

 

So, the upshot of all of this is that as of last week, I have quit all my various jobs but one: webmaster. The pack has lost an honest and reliable treasurer. I have no idea where they plan to get an advancement chair, camp card coordinator, etc for next year since I'm told it's against BSA policy to require parents of Scouts to volunteer time.

 

I wish them luck. JBlake, honestly after the spring I've had, your post just ticked me off to no end. I honestly believe that the attitude you display here, and the BSA has displayed to me, is killing Scouting. On behalf of my son, I am very sad for this.

 

If you want to complain, for heaven's sake, say something about the drop and run parents who do nothing to contribute. For you to complain about the people who *are* volunteering is just nuts.

 

GeorgiaMomma

I don't know about going off to feed but when I had to run to the bathroom (for the first day it was just two of us over tot lot) I had to flag someone over that was unoccupied at the moment to come sit with the kids and other adult until I returned. And when the kids had to go for a potty break, we had to all up and go (we stood outside of the doors until they were done.) Never once did we skimp out on the 2 deep leadership (not sure how lax or strict others are with that rule but I was covering us as much as possible.)

I have to say this thread *would* have appeared, no matter what, if I was designated anywhere near the tot lot (as an assistant, supervisor or otherwise.) I didn't post in with the intent of complaining about my position (reading my first post, yes, I could have worded that a lot better.) I posted for suggestions (whatever worked elsewhere, as far as tot lot activities go, I was interested in.) If you look at my other threads I've posted since joining here, all of them are asking for suggestions/input. My approach to quite a few things I'm new at are to see what works for others and come up with something (my ideas + theirs) that I think will work for us as well. Yes, there is plenty I do without asking here. But as someone who does online work for other forums, etc., I know the positive influence a forum and its members can have on assisting someone in a particular area. So I utilize that here for myself whenever possible (whether it be archery targets, tot lot, den doodles, etc.)

 

There was no 'planned day-care volunteer' - our CM asked quite a few people, they turned it down (most of those ended up not helping out at all as volunteers.) She reached out to me and me trying to help best I can, I stepped up. The lady who was over it for the past 2-3 years is no longer with the program (nor is her son.) In the end, it all worked out well and my older son had a blast. Thankfully his little brother had no influence whatsoever on his first district camp

I know we've cancelled smaller events in the not so far away past (last 6 months or so) due to lack of volunteers. A lot of planning went into this camp (a lot of people backed out towards the end of it) and if they had of cancelled and re-scheduled, I have no idea if it could have continued or not. Most of us who did volunteer requested time off months in advance (I had to ask off almost 2 months in advance) and wouldn't have been able to. Our pack is very small (at least compared to the numbers I see on here) and the other two packs that were included in our district didn't have one scout join us. So if us that did volunteer weren't able and new parents volunteered, I still can't say we'd have enough to 'suffice' for what should be a decent amount of people attending. Yes I'm making excuses, lol, but I think they were going to do whatever they could not to reschedule (as this wasn't a reoccurring event like a monthly program.) I was bummed enough over the other stuff we cancelled, I think if they got to the point of cancelling everything (instead of stretching us as they could) it would cause us that are more active to end up bailing as well (maybe that's what happened to the others, I don't know, still getting to know them all.) And I know as I'm typing this, some are thinking 'well if its that bad maybe there shouldn't be an event', etc. but all I know is we 'did our best' and it was very successful, even with lack of volunteers (and us that did volunteer about wore out.) The scouts that did attend thoroughly enjoyed it, I'm still hearing about it from both my two (scout and tot.) Think I dropped a pants size over those last three days too, not complaining on that front.

Welcome! Hope to see you around, this place (with all its good and bad) has been a great resource for me thus far

I have to say this thread *would* have appeared, no matter what, if I was designated anywhere near the tot lot (as an assistant, supervisor or otherwise.) I didn't post in with the intent of complaining about my position (reading my first post, yes, I could have worded that a lot better.) I posted for suggestions (whatever worked elsewhere, as far as tot lot activities go, I was interested in.) If you look at my other threads I've posted since joining here, all of them are asking for suggestions/input. My approach to quite a few things I'm new at are to see what works for others and come up with something (my ideas + theirs) that I think will work for us as well. Yes, there is plenty I do without asking here. But as someone who does online work for other forums, etc., I know the positive influence a forum and its members can have on assisting someone in a particular area. So I utilize that here for myself whenever possible (whether it be archery targets, tot lot, den doodles, etc.)

 

There was no 'planned day-care volunteer' - our CM asked quite a few people, they turned it down (most of those ended up not helping out at all as volunteers.) She reached out to me and me trying to help best I can, I stepped up. The lady who was over it for the past 2-3 years is no longer with the program (nor is her son.) In the end, it all worked out well and my older son had a blast. Thankfully his little brother had no influence whatsoever on his first district camp

Your idea isn't bad at all (and since we went almost to that extent minus being elsewhere, its doable.) I personally could not have brought that many kids to my house due to room and current renovations being done but if another parent was willing and able to accommodate (and the BSA allowed it without voiding the insurance that covers them) its feasible. We'd have to make sure to have two parents that could be together at all times wherever the location may be and we'd have to check in on the inspection procedures for that (yes, every parent who 'utilized' tot lot had to pay a small fee so if that continued, I assume we'd have to have our tot lot, no matter on location, inspected again.) We'd also have to make sure the parents agreed to their youngest ones going off to a volunteer's house. At daycare, the people who do it are certified to take care of children, so in the end if it came down to it, it wouldn't be called tot lot anymore and we'd basically just have to find someone to sit all of them during that time that wasn't affiliated with BSA (unless someone certified in child care was a volunteer - none of which we had this year.) All depends on who is in it next year, how many need to be watched, etc. For now, I'm just thankful our tots in no way, shape or form disrupted the program itself, everyone had a blast, crappy weather and all