Wilton125

Examples of "poor quality" of BSA Centennial Uniform. Click on links: http://kevindevin.com/?p=2778 http://meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3381

"If someone can make a product on the other side of the planet and bring it to my doorstep with better or equal quality as a local manufacturer for a lower price, why should I support inefficiency?" The fundamental points of this thread has been: - The Asian-made "Centennial Uniforms" have been proven to be of inferior quality - BSA Supply sells these Asian-made uniforms as a price that is higher than the prior USA made uniforms This is not efficiency; this is exploitation of a captive market. Why should this be accepted as OK?

Great comparison on commercial alternatives to BSA Scout Pants http://inquiry.net/uniforms/bdu.htm Although this information is a bit dated, the information clear illustrates "why" may Parents and Scouter chose an alternative to the BSA Scout pants.

Last year at summer camp, I met a Scout who had spent time in Australia in Scouts before returning to the US. He was wearing an Australian Scout uniform shirt that was definitely eye catching as well as comfortable. Here is an example of how the Scout uniform has evolved in Australia: http://www.scoutsqld.com.au/index.cfm?MenuID=210 It is definitely a much more youth-friendly approach to uniforms.

There are lot's of threads about the BSA uniform. The current centennial uniform was redesigned for the 100th anniversary of Scouting in the United States. It is definitely an evolution from the Oscar de la Renta (ODL) uniform introduced in the early 1980s. But is it the right uniform for Scouting as we begin our second century as a movement in the US? The Scout uniforms in both the UK http://shop.scouts.org.uk/c-193-uniforms.aspx and Scouts Canada http://www.scouts.ca/uniform/uniform.html have also evolved. These uniform seem to me more youth friendly and less traditional

To johnponz: I think that you are missing the point of this thread. Based on the responses to this thread, there are a number of people unhappy with BSA National supply about the following Centennial uniform issues: 1. Poor quality 2. High prices 3. Sourcing from Asia 4. Poor fit 5. Poor durability ... Due to these concerns, Scouter have shared their opinions and their alternatives to these uniform concerns. The "solution" is NOT to just wear the current Centennial Uniform. The "solution" is for BSA National supply to listen to its members and FIX these

To Chaoman45 What is a "bombazine raincoats"?(This message has been edited by Wilton125)

"The location where something is made does not really indicate quality. Quality usually comes from the specs that the customer (in this case BSA) is providing." Then shame on BSA National Supply for "specifying" low-quality uniforms and selling them at high prices. The pre-2009 BSA uniforms were certainly better quality then the current Centennial Uniforms.

"Call me a "nativist" but I'd pay an extra ten bucks for a US-made uniform." I would too!

"b) Imitation of United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps or Air Force uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of Act of Congress, approved June 3, 1916." Does BSA follow the these rules? Here are some examples where they do not: 1. The current Centennial Uniform and ODL (Oscar de Larenta) uniform are very similar to the US Marine Corps Uniform with tan, two-pocket, dress shirts and dark green pants. 2. However the Marine Corps tan uniform shirt never had epaulets. But the US Army tan / khaki shirts dress shirts of the 1940s-1970s used to have epaulets. In the 1

"National is getting cheap quality materials and poor workmanship at unbelievably low prices from Asia and yet they continue to raise uniform prices." If BSA Nation Supply was selling the current uniform pants and shirt at $25 to $30 in order to allow families all income levels to afford Scout uniforms, then I could understand and appreciate this approach. But BSA Nation Supply sells the current uniform pants and shirt at approximately DOUBLE the market price. Poor quality at high prices! "Where is all that profit going?? Into National's coffers to pay for all those ridiculous

"Believe it or not, and it is well documented, a Scouter had his membership revoked by a SE in Alabama for refusing to change his military style pants at a camporee." I bet that these were camouflage-style military-style pants as opposed to solid green military pants.

The US Military moved away from OD (olive drab) BDUs (Battle Dress Uniforms) in 1979. Almost all OD BDUs sold in stores are similar to, but NOT exact copies of the US Military OD BDU pants from the 1960s and 1970s. I own and use three pairs of OD BDU Pants when for campouts in the field. Retail costs were between $26 and $30. There are extremely well made and have lasted for over 6 years. I have had Scouts and Adult Leaders in my Troop wear these types of pants to Troop Meetings, Courts of Honor (CoH) and other uniformed events. Most people cannot tell the difference. These dar

It has been over a years since my conversation with BSA National Supply about the decision to "offshore" Scout uniforms to Asia. I do not remember the name of the person that I spoke with. What I do remember was that it took many calls to get to someone that was involved with the decision. I never found out who made the final decision.My guess was the Chief Scout Executive cerainly had to approve it. The person that I spoke with at National Supply claimed that there were no uniform manufactures in the USA that could support BSA's uniform needs. When I asked about the US uniform man

I am amazed that the topic of customized unit numbers has provoked this level of discussion. Over the years, the Council Shoulder Patch (CSP) has evolved from a simple red and white patch to unique, multi-color patches. Many councils produce special and limited availability CSPs for special events and for recognition like National Jamborees, Eagle Scouts, and Friend of Scouting. So in one council, there can be many variations of the CSP. BSA "National" does not seem to have a problem with this. CSP designs vary from one Council to another. The common denominator is the shape and placement

In summary: 1. BSA uniform manufacturing moves from the USA to Asia 2. Cheaper fabrics are used 3. Quality is reduced (e.g. disappearing lettering, US flag decal) 4. Prices stay the same or go up My conclusion: 1. Since National Supply is the sole provider of official BSA uniforms, it has a captive audience 2. National Supply can and does charge prices to maximize its profit. 3. National Supply functions as a profit center for BSA National. This seems to be a significant change from the way that BSA operated in the first 97 years of its existence. I believe that i

My "ODL" uniform shirts, USA-made, show no wear after 8+ years of regular use. The BSA choice of transferring uniform manufacture to Asian-made, "sweat shops" seemed to be a poor choice on an emotional level. Now it is proving to also be bad choice on a quality level as well. Both Girl Scout USA and Scouts Canada source their offical uniforms from US and Canadian sources. Why can't BSA?

I have used Sage Ventures to help my Troop design a custom unit patch. The finished product was well-designed, well-made and cost effective. They are a highly recommended source!

"A Scout is Thrifty" I have been buying "ODLs" on ebay for the past few years. My preferred shirt is: - 100% Cotton - Long-sleeved - XL I have a saved search on ebay that alerts me when this shirt comes up for auction. I typically pay $15 to $20 for gently used shirt. I own four of these shirts; they have held up extremely well. No "disappearing" Boy Scouts of America lettering or peeling US flags. Personally, I will NOT purchase a BSA uniform shirt made in an Asian sweat shop!

Here are three potential sources: 1. US Military uniforms are made in the US of US manufactured fabric. This is because Congress passed a law years ago requiring US made uniforms. 2. All Girls Scouts (USA) uniforms are made in the USA. The Girls Scouts are quite proud of this fact and they should be. 3. The Dickies jeans and works pants were made in the USA as recently as last year. In addition, our friends to the north, Scouts Canada, have their uniforms made in Canada. Scouts Canada is proud that their uniforms are Canadian-made. Many Scouts in my Troop have first

I am amazed that the topic of customized unit numbers has provoked this level of discussion. Over the years, the Council Shoulder Patch (CSP) has evolved from a simple red and white patch to unique, multi-color patches. Many councils produce special and limited availability CSPs for special events and for recognition like National Jamborees, Eagle Scouts, and Friend of Scouting. So in one council, there can be many variations of the CSP. BSA "National" does not seem to have a problem with this. CSP designs vary from one Council to another. The common denominator is the shape and placement

"Why do you think that a condition of their job should be to live, eat and sleep in certain "conditions" for a week? How would that help them do their job better?" Well since you asked, if the professionals from BSA National, especially the CSE, had to 1. March in full Scout uniform in 100+ heat, with out water for miles to a non-event 2. Then were marched back to their campsite, without water 3. Were passed along the way by "VIPs" riding in air-conditioned Escalades 4. Then had no dinner Then they might have a different perspective on the Jamboree "experience". They mi

I do sometimes wonder how much do we really trust the organization? Do we really trust National? No, I do not "trust" BSA National. My lack of trust is driven by a number of experiences, including: 1. Uniform pricing and manufacturing: shifting manufacturing to Asia, specifically China resulted in higher prices and reduced quality. BSA National treats it's membership base as a "profit center". Why can GS USA source their uniforms from US-based sources? Why can Scouts Canada source its uniforms from Canadian sources? 2. At the National Jamborees, BSA National professionals s

"Maybe it will shake up the old boys' club of guys with six rows of knots on their shirts who turned Jamboree into an outlet for their scouting bravado, turning their tent area into a country club of unidirectionally-fanned, mini-fridged comfort, all unloaded from a car driven directly to the end of their cot." Having attended the 2005 Jamboree at A.P. Hill, it is clear that Adult Volunteers do NOT go there to enjoy creature comforts! The excessive heat and humidity and sleeping in a large military tent is hardly a vacation. Remember, these are Adult Volunteers, who pay for the opportunit

I hold BSA National to the same high standard that we expect Scouts and Adults to demonstrate. I am disappointed with BSA National for their pursuit in maximizing economic profits at the expense of its members. It just seems wrong.