VigilEagle04

"So is this the north country equivalent of wearing socks with sandals?"

Pretty much.

eagle90, don't let the Virginia location fool you, I've spent a good deal of time in Canada, Maine, and northern PA, I know cold, and still don't do it. To each their own though. Like I said, not trying to say it isn't right, just saying I don't like it, lol.

jblake, that is my view on it as well.

Now, is this about a L/S/ shirt under a short sleeve uniform?

I shudder at the thought. I'm not going to say it shouldn't be done or can't be done, I just can't stand that look on anything. lol(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

We have three giant sashes, about 6'. I want to say they are canvas, but I can't truthfully remember it's been so long since I've dealt with them. They were pretty old though, they predate the past two lodge advisors for our lodge.

There is much truth in Eagle92's post.

Eagle92,

I think the creation of the OA Troop Rep PoR helps this out a lot as well. I remember the days before that position, it was much as you described. I can just see a lot of potential in the OATR position for making the OA more of a presence in the troop and to the parents. Whether it gets used in that way or not, no idea. I know it wasn't used very well in my troop when it first came out.

NJCubScouter,

Don't worry, I'm probably one of the few smokers here, and I understand the sentiment. Honestly, I'd probably like it better if the BSA did go entirely smoke free, it would give me even more incentive to quit. The sentiment you expressed there is one reason I talk to the youth about it rather than hiding the fact I am a smoker. Explaining to them why I don't enjoy being a smoker, why it's bad, and the ill effects I have because of it.

Now, I still will not smoke in sight of them, on any trip. I was the medic at the summer camp one year (I know, ironic, eh?) and smoked that entire summer. I was so good at hiding it though that no campers found out, and several staff members even forgot I was a smoker because they just never saw or smelled evidence of it.

I actually prefer to take my pipe on camping trips though, for several reasons. First, it helps keep my hand warm on those cold weather trips. Second, there isn't the litter factor. Tobacco ash and tobacco is natural (pipe tobacco doesn't have the chemicals cigarettes have) so there is none of that to deal with. Third, it doesn't stink as bad. Lastly, it just feels much more outdoorsy to me, lol.

Nah, my regular old paper certificate is good enough. I just liked my Vigil card nestled in with my Eagle cards (which I also had to replace).

Side note, I miss the gold cards they handed out when I got mine, I don't like these new ones much.

I will say, I love it. As a District Committee member, someone who is looking at being a Cub leader down the road when I have little ones, it is a great way for me to see what is behind it all. It's been too long since I've been a CS to remember much, and even then, a lot of the stuff in there we knew nothing about.

All in all, it's a good way for me to see the CS side of things, to help me in my supportive role in the program.

He's most likely thinking of the SM Awards of Merit and mixing up the OA and NESA. There is no such award though from the OA. I can't find anything referencing it in older awards either.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

BadenP,

If you recently saw the card being offered, I would surely like a link, I want my replacement! lol.

BadenP: Well, since the card isn't offered anymore (I found out because I lost mine with my Eagle cards when I moved and now can't replace the Vigil one), that's at least one issue gone, lol.

Apparently, from what Eagle92 was saying, they do actually check though. I know there is a database at national that has that stuff in it, though record keeping over the years has been at the BSA standards, so it's hard to say how complete those records are.

On our "reinstatement" or "transfer" form, whichever you like to call it, they don't ask for any proof. They do ask for dates of your ceremonies and the locations and such, but not much else.

As a smoker and a Scouter, I know how I handle things. I take a walk away from the campsite, usually in the opposite direction of the Scouts, for my smoke breaks. Sometimes this is hard, as you never know where a Scout may be.

We had a saying on camp staff: When the Boy Scouts are in camp, there is a Scout behind every tree, when the Cub Scouts are here, there is one on your back at all times. The saying was usually a reminder about our use of language and other things we may say, I also tend to take it to heart for smoking. If I can't get to an isolated area (I will usually just hold off. Usually there is some area marked as off-limits to youth, and I try to head there, whenever it is a district or council thing.

Now, all that being said, I have a different take on the whole attitude around it anyway. When I've been a troop leader, the Scouts have always known I was a smoker. We talked about it, I told them I regret being a smoker, and that I waver back and forth on how much I do smoke (like right now it's about 3 cigs a day). To me, it's better to be honest and say "I don't condone this, I wish I wasn't addicted to it, I'm working to correct it, but I am a smoker." This way, if they do see me smoking, they just turn around and head the other direction, as I also explain I will do my best not to smoke around them and prefer not to smoke around them. If I try to completely hide it from them, it feels dishonest to me. I feel like it would be worse for them to see me smoking outside of a Scouting function and finding out that way after me hiding it, than me just being up front about it.

"I just took a Red Cross first aid course. Our counselor didn't even cover the section on splinting. She said something along the lines of "don't splint anything -- whatever you do will just be taken off and redone by EMTs""

I kind of chuckled at this, and she was definitely right about that. I have let my certification lapse, but I was a paramedic for a while (started as an EMT at the age of 16) and was often in charge of first aid for my troop, and then I was the camp medic. I always had a couple SAM splints in my kit, though my bag was often bigger than it really needed to be, and had more stuff in it than it should have had. My med bag is about as big as my pack for weekend camping trips.

Anyway, it's not just the EMTs that will cut it off, the docs will too. You should have seen the dirty looks I got for my duct taped splints in the ER.

Also, I never buy a pre-made kit for anything. The troop I was first an ASM for had a decent size box with first aid supplies in for restocking that I supplied. Each patrol had a kit like the BSA guidelines one that rdclements posted, plus a couple extra things (shears, sterile water, steri-strips, tegaderms). That troop still uses the system, I know because the TC member who is in charge of equipment calsl from time to time to ask where the best place is to restock the box.

While I haven't traveled in a unit in a while, when I was a youth we always traveled in uniform. We weren't a full uniform troop (though I was often in full uniform, as I had it for OA activities) but most wore OD green BDU pants with the "class A" shirt.

For longer trips, like when we would go to Canada, we wore the old red polo, or activity shirt, while traveling. It is a bit more comfortable to wear for the amount of hours we would be in a vehicle, and still displayed who we were due to the universal emblem.

"I'll also share an example (but not completely). I think the best example of a knot, for the sake of argument, is the James E West. Some refer to it as the "buy a knot award." There are numerous reasons for the knot to be presented to someone. Yes, it could be simply (if giving $1000 is a simple thing) a recognition for a donation. It could also be something given in honor for very personal reasons, and by someone very special to the recipient. It could well be someone's most prized knot because of the reason it was given. It's not for me or you or anyone else to judge the person wearing that knot."

This is very true indeed. My James E. West knot may not be my most prized knot (there is no replacing the Eagle), but it ranks second. Here in my lodge, the lodge usually makes a donation to the endowment in the LC's name every year, thus awarding the LC the James E. West Fellowship Award. If the LC is on a second term, or already has the award for another reason, the donation is given in the name of an Arrowman youth who gives above and beyond to the lodge. This is how I received my knot.

Ever since I got into my career, I have made it my devotion to return that money every year, making a matching $1000 donation with the lodge as a way to give back to the program which helped me become who I am. That knot serves as a reminder to give back, not just monetarily, but with my time as well.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic, but you kind of struck a chord with me, lol.

Besides, who could pass up on an opportunity to sing "Back to Gilwell"?

I know I can't, and I'm not even a Wood Badger yet.

I know when I was a youth it sparked my intrigue seeing a beading ceremony, especially since none of my leaders had done Wood Badge. I had no idea about it until I became a bit more involved in the OA and Camp Staff, where I had more interaction with other Scouts and Scouters. Later on I helped on staff for a WB (my Venture Crew was assisting).

Now, I can't wait to do WB, even if it is a lot of reiteration for me (based upon what I have gathered from others, a lot of my youth stuff, stuff from NLS, and even some old JLT stuff will be included with some extra stuff), and even if it's not as Scoutcraft oriented, I'm still excited to get some Wood Badge action on next year. I owe it all to the limited experience I have had with it, and most of that is through beading ceremonies as a youth. I can't wait to have go through the Wood Badge experience with my fellow Scouters.

By the way, I know I am extra enthusiastic about stuff like this, but I'm enthusiastic about all things Scouting.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

"However - I'm not goign to lie, I did purchase the brand new poly/wool uniform that I have setup as my "District Dinner" uniform, and this baby has everybit of insignia and emblems that I am authorized to wear. There is a time and a place for this kind of thing."

That's what I was getting at with my statement about a uniform with all of it. Glad someone else knows what I'm talking about there.

Now, I did say what I did with my current uniforms in mind. Currently, I have only four knots on there, Eagle (NESA Life), AoL, Youth Religious, and James E. West. The first three, I will always wear, no matter the uniform, no matter how much I reduce the uniform down. If I were to receive an Award of Merit, be it UL, District, or any of the Silver animals. If I were to receive the DSA from the OA. Pretty much anything in the two meritorious categories, I would wear, regardless of the uniform.

Training awards, I have no idea. Maybe only ones specific to the uniform. Like if I were a CS leader, I'd wear the CS leader knots on that uniform, but not on my District Committee or BS leader uniform. I'll see when the time gets there. I will probably always keep a uniform that has them all on it though, just because, hey, I'll admit a little ego boost now and then is nice, lol.

I will always wear my Jambo patch, lodge flap, Founders Award device, and all the standards on the left side though. It's just the knots that tend to get overwhelming at times IMO. I don't care about the centennial ring, or any of that stuff, it's unnecessary to me. Knowing someone on the national Venturing committee, and seeing what he has going on, I understand it can look ridiculous. But that man is also rather humble too, so I don't see it as an ego boost for him. you never know though.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

I will continue to put everything I earn on my uniform. I don't put anything unauthorized on it, but if I earn it, and it's BSA, it goes on. Including on my District Committee uniform.

Now, do I wear my uniform to training events for adults and DC meetings and roundtables i may wander into? Not at all. Do I wear it when I go on a camping trip with the OA or visit the camp during the summer? You better believe it.

Just how I do things.

While I understand a lot of the sentiment for adults not being around, there is the little matter of BSA policy. Two adult leaders on any Scouting function.

While it is sad to see any unit fold, there are some other questions we may want to ask. The first of these, is there a stable pack in the area that can pick up the slack? Especially one that usually recruits at the same school(s) as these other two packs. If there is, then the only real concern I would have would be that you're just dwindling unit numbers.

If there are no other packs in the area, you could consider two different options. Continue what you're doing and try to get that meeting with the COR to see if it's the organization that doesn't want it anymore, or if it's the unit leadership. If it is the unit leadership, they are most likely the ones leaving with the 2nd year WEBELOS. If you can find some adult volunteers to step in and take the reigns, then the pack may be able to survive with some proper recruiting.

the second option here is to go ahead and start shopping around for another CO. It is important to know, you may not get it fixed right away and may miss your school nights for them, but you can work to make up for it later.

Snow White, there may be multiple dens for the same level of Cub Scouts in a pack. When I was a Cub, all levels had two dens. Now, that pack has 3 Wolf dens, and 4 Tiger dens.(This message has been edited by VigilEagle04)

When I was a youth, we often had quite a few adults along. We had around 4 ASMs for our troop of about 30-35, and then we had several Troop Committee members that would come along as well (they often acts as ASMs as well). The only time the adults had any interaction with the youth for meals was when we would be doing something in the evening, and come back to camp to find a troop dessert made. The SPL, ASPL, Scribe and Quartermaster were patrol-less scouts, and they split up between the 3 patrols. We often had a JASM or two, and they had the privilege of eating with the adults.

For the rest of the trip, the adults still primarily kept to themselves. Sure, they would wander around on occasion to see how things were going, but they had their "leader land", and pretty much just stayed there.