blw2

Now..... I'm asking myself, "should I attend the Leader Specific training slated for next weekend?" I just found out that they aren't requiring any sort of RSVP or registration, so they really have no idea if it'll just be me as the only student, or all new Tiger Leaders, or one Cubmaster and the rest Den Leaders. Can't really be too "specific" in my estimation. Still, it might be a good networking opportunity, and a chance to knock ideas around a bit.

I guess I might agree re. the quality of trainers.... but a lot might be driven by inconsistencies in course content. I was just reading this thread where I left off at my last post..... "perdidochas commented - BALOO was basically just about the rules for family camping." It's clear that the agenda outlined for the class I took was very different than perdidochas' class. See, my BALOO that I just attended was very little about the rules. It was more about basic camping tips and tricks....... and frankly a lot of noise about how to plan a trip, etc... I would argue that just about the only thing that this BALOO course should have been about is about the rules. ......How to fill out a tour permit, what can and can't be done by this age or that age.....etc.... that's the one common thing that a new scouter likely doesn't know

I must admit, as Assistant DL every time I crack open the "Den Meeting Resource Guide" to get ideas to help my DL, my eyes just gloss over....... words.... way too many words...... I like dedkad's approach, in theory at least. I think it would be great to start the year with a plan. As a parent, it would help me to know which tings in the book to do at home and which ones to skip in saving for the den meeting. I can't even remember how many things in Tiger and Wolf my son & I did at home, just to do them over again at a meeting down the road. Even if the plan changes a bit due to unforeseen events, it would still give a great basis to work from. I say "in theory" because I think it would be very hard to set a plan for the year in our case. We did that this year for committee and pack meetings, but the CM quit and now our new one (who was also the CM before) is coming back, and he and his click on the committee are making things "more flexible". hard to plan a den meeting schedule when you don't know when other things are.

Kindof seems to me that it says what is needed to be said.... No need in helping to dumb down language. It already has enough steam on that heading if you ask me. in the context of scouting clean = not dirty, neat, tidy, not vulgar, not rude, nice and yes KDD, camping is inherently mixing with "dirt", but there should be a pointed effort by a scout to keep his camp site tidy, to keep his cookware tidy, and keep his body tidy. I see it as a relative thing, not a concept to be taken to any extreme, such that clean only means sterile as in hospital operating room sterile.

Interesting. Seems like the majority of folks seem to think just the opposite. I must admit to thinking that it seems like Scouts will be more fun as a Scouter. I sure did as a youth.... seemed like all we did in cubs was arts and crafts.

Ever been in a rowing shell?

Well I just spent my Saturday this past weekend in BALOO. A Saturday I'll never get back. My hats off to the instructors. They put their hearts into it and did their best to fill the day. There was some good info, and some not so good info. They tried to stay on track, but there were several times when the presentation drifted off to stuff that Cubs can't even do. The students kept pulling us back on track. I'm really hesitant to say this, but..... I've been camping nearly my whole life. I really don't need a lesson on ground cloths under a tent, but apparently there was at least one in my class that did. The thing is, just because I've been doing it my whole life doesn't mean that I don't make every one head move in the book..... but really....... I feel like it was a waste of a day. The issues of which the students really needed lessons on are BSA specific stuff like tour permits.... which resulted in a lively discussion but NOTHING but grey area was left..... I think the only real value I got was the campfire program discussion, and that only because the presenter was a great entertainer and it really carries over to running a pack meeting. The other funny thing .... approx. 7-1/2 hours of Outdoor Orientation.... and we didn't step a foot outside all day! I was thinking as I sat there, that I'll probably be sitting through much of the same stuff yet again soon when I go through the WELOT/OWLS/IOLS and other training evolutions..... so Yes Basement, I think there's too much overlap. They could in my opinion offer a class much like this BALOO except maybe even more thorough for leaders that have never camped..... Then offer another maybe 1-2 hour course on just the tour permits and other BSA specific "rules" that could apply across the board to all levels of leadership for anyone that feels comfortable camping. Shoot, make it 3 hours and throw in a CPR recertification!

up maybe 60% for my pack

Or maybe set up a tour at the local hospital..... pharmacists and all sorts of lab techs, docs, etc.....

Would a pharmacist at Walgreen work? Could get a tour and a talk out of it?

Yeah, I gotta agree with that. Who cares when.... I can see it getting a little more important if the pack is active through the summer.... and by active I mean den meetings ad pack meetings continue the same all year..... then it may be a little more of something to concern yourself with.

I thought I read someplace that the "official" change date was June 1. Prior to June they could still work on Wolf electives. After that, they would be working on bear stuff. Yeah, I think the BSA makes all of this way more confusing that it needs to be. EVERYTHING we do is based on the school year, except council drives dues on the calendar year.

"jblake47 commented Today, 09:03 AM Editing a comment No, but thanks for the link, it looks cool! Mine is nothing really all that elaborate, If anyone were to tie a normal man's suit time with the cheater knot rather than the Windsor knot, you would know what I'm talking about. Usually one end of the necker is longer than the other, but pulling on it releases the one end of the necker. The slip ability of the knot would make it easier to remove than any other knot. The nice thing about it is the ends of the necker hang straight down rather than sticking out as they would with a number of other knots, and that by pulling on it slips the knot open and is a bit safer if snagged." I'll have to give that a try. Seems like it might only work with larger neckers. Not sure my son's cub necker would have long enough tails for the knot and to still hang low enough to look good.

nah, I'm done. I've made my point. Basement made his.

Thank you so much!

Brilliant!

Got curious about this special knot. Is this the one you use jblake? http://guidinguk.freeservers.com/necker.html

Of course you have the same issues. Everyone with kids does. You're pushing so hard to do the training in October, November, or whatever.... that tells me that this time is slower for you. Maybe only slightly, but slower none the less. that just so happens to not be the slow time for the students of BALOO..... so I'm pushing for somebody (not you) to offer the required training when I can take it, OR don't require the training! So, I suggest that we not try to make me as a Pack Scouter fit into your schedule as a Troop Scouter anymore than I should try to make you fit into mine. Again , that's why it's much more logical in my mind to shoulder this training onto council personnel. In my mind, they are getting paid to help me and all of us volunteers put on a good program and as a side result keep their roster numbers up...... so give us some help! oh, and throwing that junk out about if I don't like something, step up and fix it. That's what I did by making calls, tracking people down, emailing back and forth, asking questions, making suggestions......I could do like the 90% of other scouters, well at least the ones I know, and just soldier on not even looking for the training, but no. When our former CM pointed out that we were light on the required BALOO trained leaders, I started searching It's funny, I'm thinking back to the surprised look on the DE's and district trainer's faces at a round table some time last year, when I pointed out this need for summer training.... and several other Cub Scouters stepped up in agreement. Like it's never been thought of. I guess it's only logical since most scouters eventually "cross over" to troops..... and that's where much of the focus is. After all of this work for years, and taking a Saturday out of my busy fall.....I sure do hope that it's valuable. Oh, and did I mention that I cancelled a family camping trip the weekend next month when this course is being offered?

Well, actually my real complaint is that the paid folks down at council should be doing it, not sloughing it onto the volunteers that already take on plenty at the unit level. If they don't have the skillset, they should learn it. I know that's not how it operates, but from my perspective it should be...... Given how it is currently set up, I think the paid folks should at least be facilitating in a big way, so that the volunteer teachers have minimal time demands to make it happen. You're right, it's never a great time....... if the date is set well enough in advance then it can often be worked around. Your plan would likely accomplish this, but it also opens up other issues. Let's say you schedule it on the first Saturday of November. There will very likely be at least some that have something else scheduled on that same Saturday...... For us it's our CO's fall festival. Then let's say you schedule your February class on the 1st Saturday of Feb..... what if my pack ALWAYS has it's B&G that day? I promise you one thing, you aint ever getting any folks from my pack trained....... as a provider, you simply just are not serving your "customer". That's why more frequent choices would be nice......seems to me that one early summer, one late summer, one fall winter, and one spring would fit much better to the need. From the Cub leader perspective, our summers are the time that we have available for things such as training. Sure there might be the odd family vacation week or even a week off to summer camp for a few of us that would conflict, but things in the summer slow way way down..... Come this time of the year it's nuts! Round-up planning, 2-3 den meetings per month, a pack meeting, monthly committee meetings, maybe a camping trip or other outing almost every month to plan, attending said trips, popcorn training, popcorn pick-up and coordination, round table, B&G to plan and facilitate, pinewood derby, trips across town to get awards and such at the scout store, etc..... and then there's homework that needs bird dogging every night, other school events and functions, some might have school sports or band kicking into high gear, many have fall and spring sports kicking into high gear, the holidays..... .... and then you want me to do what?

That's right, basement. I don't remember the exact situations now, but there was only one or maybe two times.... and they conflicted with something big..... so no, I'm not going to have my son & I miss out on a major pack event to do something that should be offered much more often than it is. I'm not talking about a den meeting, I'm talking about a camp or a trip or something. Honestly, there should be no reason for me to even have to miss a den meeting for training. I thin it's mainly my district, but to a lessor extend the neighboring districts too..... but these things should be offered much more often..... and yes, they need to be offered over the summer when the students can actually attend. Let's turn this around.....Are you implying that if you were a trainer, you wouldn't miss out on going to jamboree to teach a class for the many Cub leaders that need to take a class over the summer?.... but if our Pack planned a trip to say, sleep on an aircraft carrier, that I should miss that trip and make my son miss out, so that I could attend Baloo?

Oh, I think I'm starting to track. he started in a regular pack since you folks don't do tiger..... but he's now switching to your LDS pack. So he's not really intending on keeping both tracks going in parallel. Do I have that right? That being the case, then this question is just about the overlap transition. Sorry, not LDS so I can't help.... just trying to understand.

I've been trying to help my CO's troop re-engage with the pack, and get support for the pack at the same time. More and more of our boys are crossing into other troops, since our troop has been shrinking. I think there were also some other issues, either with a leader or perhaps some of the boys that have since aged out. Anyway, they are now "under new management" and growing. I put the question out to or Committee chair, which is also the new SM.... But I figured I's put the same question out here to see what ideas you folks might have.... Can you think of any cool stuff that scouts do that might be a good demonstration for the cubs? I'm just wondering if there's some sort of cool demonstration or "hook" that the cubs would enjoy watching or depending on what it is even participating in.... you know something that might inspire them to say "I can't wait to be a Boy Scout!", or something that would help connect the two things in their minds.... pioneering stuff maybe? Maybe scouts presenting something cool they did at summer camp? Maybe there's nothing simple enough that would work or maybe the ages and interests are too far apart.... I'm just thinking out loud of ways to sink a long term hook, and also get some free entertainment for a pack meeting!

Thanks. I'm signed up to take baloo next month. The first opportunity in all this time.

"Basementdweller commented #16.7 Today, 11:19 AM The right thing to do is follow the rules....have a baloo trained person....and not worry about it." Kinda hard to do when they don't offer the classes. I've been trying to find a class, even out of my district, since spring 2011. Aggressively looking for something over the summer when our pack slows down, and I have been in contact with several districts, DE's and council higher ups. Not a one that didn't conflict with a pack event, and I think there was only two that did. I'm signed up to take one at my first opportunity, which is next month. ditto for leader specific training. Still not signed up for one of those yet. I'm on-line trained, but would like to attend a group class to benefit for the presentation, and group discussion. ridiculous, IMO. I think these should be regularly scheduled and taught by the paid BSA folks out of council. No excuse leaning on volunteers that are too busy to do it.

"JoeBob commented Today, 07:59 AM Editing a comment I'm trying to figure out what the boy will do to participate in two packs. Does he do everything twice, once in each pack? Does he use two books to keep straight what he's done where?" I'm thinking he might pick and choose...... when pack A is doing something fun, he'll do that.... but won't bother himself when Pack A is doing something "not fun".... because pack B is doing something fun. Just weird. Shouldn't be allowed IMO based on what little I know about the situation.