Trevorum

Maybe we could agree that while the Holy Catholic Church does not "oppress" women, it is nontheless patriarchal.

Patriarchy might be a better term for most contexts.

Wow, that's a pricey field. At the annual meetings for us scruffy archeologists, the non-member fee is merely $205.

oooh, oooh! Are we gonna tell lawyer jokes??

Me first! Me first!

I agree with Pack. While I've never been to a conference in the field of nuclear engineering (which could concievably be closed to the public for national security reasons), every single scientific conference I have ever been to has been open to anyone willing to pay the registration fee.

Perdido says, "Evolutionarily, homosexuality is a dead end."

Ahhh! That is not true. There is a very strong theory in evolutionary biology that limited homosexuality in hominids actually served to increase group fitness by effectively reducing group fecundity (ie., some males not fathering offspring) while simultaneously (and this is the key point) increasing group security (ie., adult males defending and bringing food to the group, notably including their neices and nephews who may carry a recessive gene.)

As I said, it is a theory, but it does prvide an explanatory framework for the persistance of homosexuality in evolving hominids.

Bando says, "For me, I truly believe this to be a generational thing..."

I agree. I am currently preparing the presentation on "Generations in Scouting" for our council's fall 2010 Wood Badge course. This is a spanking new module and I practiced it for the first time this last weekend with the Wood Badge staff serving as the test audience. One of the key take-away messages (in this National syllabus) is that Scouting changes with each generation. It has changed over the last 30-40 years (eg., female leaders/members, 2-deep), and it will see other changes in the coming decades. The current generation of Scouts, born 1990-2004, will be adult leaders before we know it and they will bring their own life experiences, values, and expectations into Scouting. My personal views (not brought into the WB session) are that some of those changes will reflect America's increasing acceptance of homosexuality.

If Scouter.com lasts until 2030, I'll come back as an old geezer and tell you all "I told you so!"

Not "natural"??

LOTS of things we humans do are not "natural". That is, we engage in many truly bizarre behaviors that are not found in nature. We cook food. That's not "natural". We wear clothes. That's not "natural". We shave our bodies. That's not natural. We adorn our bodies with decorations and color our hair pink. That's not natural. We climb mountains and jump out of airplanes for pleasure. We purposely alter our body chemistry. We have organs of dead people surgically implanted into us. We have sex face-to face. We have sex face-to- ummm... That's certainly not natural either. So, your point is ...?

Beav, I'd argue that religion does very much tell people what to think. That's exactly why we have suicide bombers.

I believe lived homosexuality is a serious personal sin..."

Yah, I reckon that's the crux of it all. As long people allow religion to tell them what to believe, we'll have this disconnect.

".. whatever is told by the pro-homosexuals."

I'm wondering why would someone choose to be a "pro-homosexual"? Is that like being a pro-African American, or a pro-woman, or a pro-Semite?

Personally, I belong to none of those categories. I just hate to see people ill treated for merely being who they are.

Sam Houston Council, huh? Welcome! You'll find lots of good stuff here. My two cents: training, Get trained, stay trained. It'll make a huge difference.

"I'm sure his base is happy about it. They despise Scouting."

Perdido, I'm not sure why you feel you can speak for me. As a member of his "base", I certainly have never given anyone reason to think I despise Scouting. Quite the contrary.

Or were you just being divisive?

John, yep - but sure wish I was there! I was asked to be on staff again in the Religious Relationships tent, but I couldn't take the time off. Darned work keeps getting in the way of Scouting!

WWW

I'm not certain what the solution might be. We just can't please everybody. However, I can tell you that folks in the majority are very often brusquely ignorant - and unthinkingly intolerant - of those scouts and scouters of minority faiths. Even at a Scout's Own, the fundamental approach to the service is Christian. For example, we are invariably prompted in a Christian ritual to "bow our heads" and pray. This is simply not my way; when I look up in reverence, it is frequently misconstrued as rudeness.

Deacon, what about the three boys in the troop who are Buddhist, the twin brothers who are Hindu, the Islamic kid, and the fellow whose family you think might be Wiccan but you've never asked? What about those scouts while the rest of the troop is off at Protestant, Catholic and Jewish services?

I think this is Pack's way of letting us know he's finally been invited to join the Rapture.

Good luck, John! We'll miss ya

sigh.

I can just hear your mother saying when you were little, "Brian, you are SO stubborn!"

In my experience, collecting money at a worship service is a very Christian thing to do. And I mean that in several different ways.

I've never had a problem in contributing to the World Friendship Fund at a Woodbadge or other event Scout's Own service. However, I agree with many of the above comments that it is inappropriate to ask for money from youth at at summer camp service.

But, I've seen far worse faux pas at scout services. As long as they don't ask us all to pray in the name of a specific deity, I'm good.

ooo - a citation!

Merlyn, on this issue you are looking for a problem where there is, genuinely, none.

The question is not whether BSA will/can/has revoked membership of a self-proclaimed atheist; the question is whether BSA will/can/has revoke membership of a self-proclaimed Taoist. The answer is, "no."

BSA accepts and welcomes Taoists, Buddhists, Unitarian Universalists and others who have no belief in a supreme being. BSA has never revoked membership of anyone in any of these faith communities on charges of atheism.

This horse is long dead. Give it up. Please.

To the OP: "Yes, Taoists are welcome in the BSA!"

While we are digressing onto matters of cinematic topography, I want to know about the steep gorge seen in the car chase scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark? That's not in the Nile delta!

Calico,

you're absolutely correct of course. Time was, when the Boys Scouts was a very "avant garde" organization of social change. ("Gangs of boys leading themselves? Such an idea!") It's a moving target of course, and if the organization (any organization) doesn't move ahead, it will be left behind. That is what seems to have happened with BSA over the course of 100 years. At some point, creeping conservatism took hold of the paid leadership, probably in conjunction with a mis-placed emphasis on numbers and growth, coupled with some very attractive partnerships from conservative religious organizations offering built-in numbers guarantees.

btw, welcome to the forums

and "eating dinner in one's bathing suit" is immoral?? LOL! I can tell you've never lived in a beach community!