SueM

I second the thought of checking with your council to see if there are any "benefactors" who might be willing to cover the cost. We have a Wood Badge Association in our council (I'm the treasurer) who will help cover costs for participants who need help, but we also have anonymous benefactors out there too, who will help if we don't have the funds too. If nothing else, check with your Chartered Organization and see if THEY can help with the cost...explain to them the benefits of the training to the troop/pack and see what they can do to help! Good Luck!!

Sue M.

Wait a minute Ea..don't rush the Gilwell yet..you forgot

I'm growing old and feeble and I can Staff no more!!

So I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

Sue M.

I honestly think that there is a place for both men and women to be involved in Scouting. Though I keep my son involved so that he can have other men as role models and learn from them..he doesn't get much in the way of male role models otherwise..However, I also have in my troop boys who live with their father only and I think having a strong female role model for the boys to see is also just as meaningful and important to their growth. Adult Association doesn't really limit gender. My son has never asked me to limit my involvement with the troop and although I do bring some of the usual "mother" skills such as wanting them to eat properly...I use that in the way of encouraging the boys to enrich their own scout cooking skills and as a consequence, I have many boys now who really enjoy doing creative camp cooking and several who have expressed an interest in pursuing it as a career!! When it comes to camping though..I am no mother and I would never -allow- my son to sleep in my tent!! He needs to be on his own as much as possible! I expect that I would feel the same way if I was a man too.

I'm MUCH harder on the boys at camp then most of my adult male leaders are. They continually want to make life easy for the boys and I have to fight with them at every turn to keep them from going and putting up tents, cleaning up after them..cooking for them..solving all their problems..you name it! They baby these boys like you can't believe! The worst part of this is that they are all trained adult leaders too!

Lauwit,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for trying to do what you can for our youth!!

I see many possibilities for you on a Troop Committee!! Much of the work that is done as a Committee member is done during the week and doesn't require you to be away for weekends, but at the same time is very important to running an effective troop! For example, the role of the Equipment Coordinator...working with the troop Quartermaster to keep the troop equipment in shape and making recommendations to the committee when repairs/replacements are needed. Or as the Troop Secretary..whos job also includes things like doing a Troop resources survey to determine the skills of parents and other adults in the area who you might need to call on for help occasionally and also providing communications to parents in the form of newsletters. Or the Troop Treasurer..who helps train the troop scribe and is also in charge of the FOS campaign and troop fund raising activities..

Or..how about just being the adult leader in charge of "odd jobs"??...making sure tour permits and other paper work are filed, etc.

These are just a few ideas..

Our theme for this month is cooking and one of the things I'm going to do at our next meeting is a demonstration for the boys of various things that you can make using only 2 or 3 ingredients..such as making drop noodles with just flour & eggs, or flat breads with just flour & water or even candy using just butter & sugar. These are things that they could easily make on the trail or at camp without having to carry a lot of "extra" things which are high energy and filling.

Then, they decided that they wanted to have an "Iron Chef" style competition with the adults supplying each patrol with identical ingredients and seeing what they could make from them, then the adults would judge and they set up their whole schedule of "prizes"

How new is new? IOW's how old is the one that you have? There were some changes made in the past 2 years, but I haven't heard of any new changes since last fall. I think that I remember that you -can- make slides from the DVD, but I'm not sure..I made my own presentations. The one issue that we had with the DVD was that none of the video clips would play outside of the stuff from BSA National at the start and the Communications one.

Sue M.

I used to be a Beaver

Personally, I think that the TCC needs to be done live and preferably to have as much of the troop committee as possible take it at the same time, to have the interaction that I think is necessary for it to really be successful.

It's my philosophy when I'm presenting something at a training event, that we only get -one- shot at teaching things correctly so we need to make it count. I do think though that allowing time for group interaction is part of what makes for a successful experience for participants and although we do try to stick to a time schedule as much as possible...that if we do happen to go overtime because of questions, etc. that it's worth it. It seems that the participants go away with a better grasp of things.

May the great master of all scouts watch over and protect him and his family in this difficult time. I hope and pray for a good outcome for him and that his family is spared the pain of losing a child.

One of the things that my boys do is...We had a new Veteran's Cemetery open in our area about 2 years ago after years of effort to get it here, and our chartered Org. made a specific effort to get in from the start to do flag placements on the gravesites on Memorial & Veterans Day, so they enlisted the troop boys to do that. It gives the boys a sense of patriotic duty to honor these veterans like this and we've also gotten a fair amount of publicity out of it as they generally always do an article for the local papers and we help our Chartered Org in the process too.

Sue M.

We had been using TroopMaster way before I took over as SM when I was the troop secretary..as a matter of fact, the CC and I sat down and went over all the troop pink advancement forms and entered everthing into it so we'd have the correct start of info there. When boys would come back from Summer Camp with their partial MB blue cards..we'd enter that info into it too. As someone else mentioned then we also kept track of when adults did their YPT and other training courses too. Now, as SM, I continue to keep the master copy..we've tried letting someone else handle doing the work, but it always ends up getting messed up. When a boy comes to me for a SM's conference with his book, I'll put all the info into TM at that time (I always take my laptop to meetings with me as I have a lot of scouting info on it!). I can also verify service hours or activity attendance at that time. I also find it is very useful for me then when I have time at home, that I can go over each boys' records to see where we are as a troop. Or if a parent calls me at home, I have access to everything that I need. When I send out my quarterly newsletter prior to the COH, I will also print out each boys progress report and MB's earned sheet to send home so that we can all verify that we have things right! And also as someone else said..if someone loses their book, we still have records of what requirements they have done.

sue m

Geez..what the heck is he afraid of?? It sounds like he has some paranoid fear that something might be going on behind his back and that he is afraid he is losing total control over the troop operation. I don't know how he could possibly enforce it!

I'd DIE without being able to email my other leaders..I hate talking on the phone and I am much more a writer than I am a speaker so I often hold email discussions of troop issues with my ASM's! I can express my ideas much more clearly when I can sit and look at them and read them back to myself to see if I'm saying what I am trying to. It gives me time to think through things more thoroughly too..

The SM's main job is to train boy leaders and then get out of the way as much as possible and lets them lead...even if it is not a "picture perfect" job. He/she oversees the troop program and provides support and guidance for the boy leaders and helps them to provide opportunities for all scouts to fulfill their requirments, especially for those up to First Class, and make sure that the troop is using all 8 methods of scouting! He/she makes sure that the activities the boys plan are permissable under the guide to safe scouting and that qualified supervision and disclipline is provided for all activities. The SM is also in charge of determining when requirements are met so that boys can advance and providing guidance to boys through their Eagle project planning stage. The SM must also oversee O.A. elections and verify eligibility for both scouts and adult scouters. The SM sets a proper example in wearing his/her uniform consistantly and properly!

Sue M.

Lisabob,

As far as the scout goes..mom and dad are well aware of things...Mom is tired of trying to get through to him hereself..she was there last week when we had the discussion with him and his brother about the fight they had the week before. Dad is a good guy..has gone through all training but is gone for months at a time on his job and I don't think he is totally sure the BSA program is "workable"...thinks that we expect too much from the boys!!

Ex-SM stepped down because he was burned out..we looked for someone else for at least 18 months and no one would step up. I finally made the decision (with the encouragement of other adults!) to do it as I understood the changes that we needed to make and just couldn't stand by and watch things anymore. He's now CC because he now had the time again and wanted to become involved again and our CC..who was my mentor..had also been trying to step aside for at least a year and we had no one to take over there. We felt that this was a good place to put ex-SM but it's still hard to contain him! I have had at least 4-5 very candid discussions with him so far as to how things he is doing is affecting the troop and asked him to stop! He means well and I do understand that it's just a natural reaction for him to just come back and try to "pick up where he left off" 3 years ago..I am trying to solve as many issues as I can on my own without outsiders..but do have several people (my UC and ADC) who I can go to who are already aware of the situation and ready to step in.

As far as my son goes..I think he's tired of things too and ready for a break. Even if it's just a couple of months...it might do him good.

Anyway...I appreciate all the feedback. I've been so frustrated lately it's not funny. I've poured my heart into the troop and it has not been easy for me.

Beavah,

I do understand that concept..which is why I'm having such an issue with what to do. I've watched quite a few scouts who did not deserve Eagle (IMO) get it before I took over and I want to hold the boys to a higher standard than that.

This is not a new issue with this scout..every adult MALE leader who has been in the troop since we've been there (these boys and my son came up through the pack together) has TRIED to do something with this scout..none have succeeded! Most have wanted to strangle him, and one actually DID grab him by the shirt once after being provoked! (another story!) And it's not just an issue of patience because we all have been MORE than patient with him...to the point where other parents ask why he's still there! He's only still here now due to my patience and willingness to understand that they don't understand or like change and I want to give them the opportunity to grow!! All those people who John in KC suggests talking to are MORE than aware of the situation...most have seen it with their own eyes over time...our DC actually pulled the scout aside at an event because he saw the way he was acting and layed down the law with him..it did no good. District Advancement Chair advised me to send him packing. Current CC was ex-SM who I took over from..he tells scout to "pretend" to get along with me until he gets me to sign paperwork for his Eagle.

I'm not intending to deny him Eagle for cause, but we have spelled out what changes we need to see for him to get there behavior wise and if he's not willing to do that that's his choice. He can always vote with his feet too and go to finish up with another troop! They all know though that no other troop in area would put up with this stuff.

That all said...he did come and make an attempt last night to behave better so that's all I wanted to see and I was pleased to see it. I'm trying my best to work towards a good outcome. One of the things that I'm considering is after the next elections...just pulling my own son from the meetings and let him concentrate on working on his remaining couple of MB's and Eagle project away from the troop setting. He's put his time in and as much effort as he's capable of doing with his own issues of ADHD and lack of social skills..He doesn't need this garbage all the time either. He can still participate in campouts, projects and activities..and take away their "excuse" for doing things somewhat too.

Ed,

That's exactly how I feel! To compound matters even worse..I've got the ex-SM who has recently returned and is now the CC who tells boys that all they need to do is (basically) "pretend" to get along with me until after they get their Eagle and then they can leave and be done with it!! He hates to see boys "get this far" and then not get over the final hurdle..and I have had several discussions with him already over these attitudes!!

Here's my senario and it really only touches on the whole issue...my question will be at the bottom..

In an nutshell (there's too much to get it all in!) Scout will be 17 in August..could have been an Eagle before he was 14. Comes to nearly all meetings campouts and most activities, so can't fault him there, however, has been a continual behavioral issue since day one at them all...he is a bully, is manipulative, has no respect for anyone (especially ME) and has made it his whole job in life to harrass my son, who is the current SPL. As a matter of fact, he and a few of the other boys deliberately voted for him so that they could run all over him and cause him issues. He was the last SPL and I could not teach him anything about leadership because he did not want to learn it and fought me the whole time. Now, I have no "blindness" where my son is concerned..I am the first to say he is not the most capable leader in the world..has trouble getting simple jobs done etc. but he was willing to step up and try the job that no one else would do.(I talked someone else into running with him at the last minute so that they could have a choice). I did not want him to run for SPL since I know it's always harder being the SM's son in ANY job and I knew what they had in mind for him and one of the other boys' father came to me after the election and TOLD me that this was what they had done! This whole group of boys just sits and watchs EVERY thing he does so that they can criticize him and then tell me I'm "not fair" because I dont' make him do things. (this is NOT true..if anything I'm HARDER on him then the others, because I understand the position it puts him into, but I can get after him more quietly since I know him better and know not only what he is and isn't capable of. Of course..they don't see or hear this so they think I never do it. He is however trying to the best job that he can, according to his own capabilities...which are not the same as theirs!

Anyway..this scout has basically told me and other adults to our face that he does not care about living by the Scout Oath and Law..and he has not shown me a shred of evidence over the past 5 years that he views scouting as anything more than a camping club or social time. He has great natural leadership ability but it's always used in the wrong direction..does not WANT to learn to use it properly either! The only GOOD thing that I can say about this scout is that he is helpful sometimes. Talking to him does no good...talking to parents does no good as he has about the same lack of respect for mom too. I/we can't run a decent meeting anymore due to the disruption.

Now, he has enlisted MORE scouts in his plan to cause issues with my son..several weeks ago, while I was involve with the Committee meeting, the boys were trying to plan some events for a campout. One of the other adults watched as this scout and another started tag teaming my son..asking him questions that he would have no way of knowing the answers to, just to embarrass him or to prove how "inept" he is..then they pulled a couple of other scouts into it too. The adult came to me and told me what was going on and I addressed it with one of the boys at that time..as he was the one we caught.

So..here is my question..How do I morally signing off on the scout spirit for this scout?....if and when he comes to me with a possible Eagle project?? I have warned him several times already that if he does not change his attitude...that I will not do it. He has made it clear that he hates me..does not respect me..has not intentions of changing..thinks -I- am the problem. (mainly because I'm trying to turn the troop around from being adult led and they don't (and don't WANT to) understand why I've changed some things from the way they were in the past. His behavior though is impacting any progress that I'm trying to make in the troop towards the goal of becoming boy led! I have bent over backwards trying to give him the benefit of the doubt...we have told him that he is welcomed to find another troop.

Eamonn,

I'm going to go a different way then most have so far...

You didn't fail! As with many things when kids are growing up..sometimes they deliberately TRY to hate things just as a way of showing their independence and individuality. They hate to admit that they like the same things good ole dad does sometimes. But you know, in 5..10 years from now, it'll be a different story! When he has kids of his own, he'll remember all these times in a different perspective. He'll appreciate things differently and understand!! Don't give up!! Someday he'll come to you and say "Thank you!"

Sue M.

CNYScouter,

That's pretty much what we do too, only over 2 weekends. The first weekend is NLE on Friday Evening and then Scoutmaster Specific all day Saturday. As part of the schedule on Saturday then, we divide them up into their patrols and they have a PLC and get the info they need for the IOLS weekend 2 weeks later...which starts out on Friday evening with the Health & Safety and YPT for those who cannot produce evidence of having taken it in the past 3 years (our council requires it to be done at least every 3 years) and then all the IOLS stuff on Saturday and Sunday. Our training chair makes taking NLE a pre-requesite for taking the other sessions so we don't often have anyone go through the course and not get their "Trained" patch!

Sue m.

Thanks for the link emb021...I found this info there that I thought I'd post as it was interesting! Whether it is true for all councils is another story and granted..it was intended for girls invovled in Venturing to wear, not adults.

sue

"The Girl Scout Gold Award knot has no history, is unofficial and is only included to recognize girl's who have earned that award and are involved in today's Venturing program. However, I received this statement in an e-mail: "I have some good news for you. I did what you said about getting permission from my Scout Executive before wearing an unofficial knot on the uniform. The knot in question is the Girl Scout Gold Award Knot. My Scout Executive told me he could not give me permission to wear it, but he would take it to national and see what their take on it was. I am happy to say that National gave approval to the wearing of the Girl Scout Gold Award Knot." I doubled checked with the Scout Executive and he confirmed the story. That definitely was a surprise."

Ok...thanks! We'd looked through the insignia guide and I did try to check elsewhere online to see if there was possibly something obscure hiding out there..I can't remember exactly what color the knot was but it was made just like a regular BSA square knot and I considered that perhaps they had it custom made.

That's a reasonable thought though in suggesting wearing the pin on the right pocket, especially considering how our council tends to be pretty liberal in allowing uniform "decoration".

Sue M

I'm familiar with most of the BSA Adult leader square knots, but one of our local adult female leaders showed me a knot that her troop presented her with...She earned her Gold Award as a GS and they gave her a square knot to recognize that..I have no idea of where they got it or if it's "officially" recognized by BSA but was just curious..I mentioned it to a couple of other female leaders who were interested in finding the answer because they had earned their Gold (or whatever it was called in their time)too and I offered to see if I could find out the information. With so many women becoming involved in scouting as leaders..if it's not an official knot, perhaps it's time for BSA to consider one to recognize that achievement too.

Sue M.

Jumping in on this a little late but while I don't think I see the need for a minimum age limit, I do agree that most 18 yr olds are not ready to grasp Wood Badge OR be able to fully commit themselves to working their ticket for possibly 18 months. I think that I would really have to sit down and talk to them about what is expected of them and what WB is about.

As far as being "invited"..what our council does is to print out the flyers and they're filled out and returned in the sense of "I'm interested in more info about WB" and then they are sent an information package with overall information about the course, an application in it and the "20 questions", etc. As staffers, we were told that part of our "job" was to actively recruit. I know though when I did that, I looked for the -best- candidates that I could find, who I thought would benefit from taking the course..not just bodies to fill the slots!

Sue M.

Rob,

You didn't say if you were building a troop from the bottom up, or inheriting one that is already in operation...but, I agree with John in KC..one of the first things you need to do is start training yourself as much as possible. If your district/council does not have training sessions set up in the near future, go to your local trading post and get a current copy of the Scoutmasters Handbook and a Guide to Safe Scouting and start reading. Find all the online training (such as the Youth Protection training, Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat) and do them. Get a real feel for how a boy led troop is supposed to run...these forums are a great resource for that! I've learned an incredible amount here. Recruit other willing adult leaders and make sure they are properly trained from the start too. It's easier to have them learn correctly from the start then to try and retrain them or break them from local "traditions".

Your first and most important job as Scoutmaster is to teach boys to be leaders and then let them lead! One of my favorite B-P sayings is something like "A man should never do what a boy CAN" so teach them and then get out of their way and let them do it! It's a hard thing to do sometimes, but don't step in and try to solve all their problems for them..this is sometimes a hard concept though to get through to your other adult leaders. Offer suggestions for solutions but try to let them make their own choices..for right or wrong as long as a safety issue is not involved.

Thank you for having the courage to step up to the plate and for volunteering your time and energy for our youth! You will hit many "roadblocks" and have many frustrations along the way but always keep in mind just why you are doing this..."It's for the boys" and you will find that it's all worth the effort in the end when you see those boys learning and doing and being excited about it.

Sue M.

Fuzzy Bear,

You're not required to "give back" your beads...you are only asked not to wear them until your ticket is finished.

Sue M

Is this a self-imposed work goal? Or something that your job is asking of you? Much of it would depend on what exactly you are looking for with those goals. In WB, you will get a lot of things that help more with people management skills, project management, how to lead and teach more effectively. Now, all those things can certainly help you learn how to manage your time more effectively and how to hopefully get the best efforts from those around you. While you could look at the syllubus, I'd really advise against it. It would take away from the discovery experience for you in your own course IMO.