Gwaihir

2 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I think that's a good point, and that's an interesting article, but I am disturbed by your implication about people who are 60, which I will be in several days. 

No implication made.   Just that in a representative government, there should be a wider range of ages doing the representing.  

On 1/22/2018 at 11:15 AM, NJCubScouter said:

Good luck to him.

26 is a little young to be elected to a state legislature, but not unheard of.  I know we have had people younger than that be elected to county-wide office.  And my town just elected an 18-year-old to the school board, which obviously is not on the same level as the state legislature, but it's still quite an accomplishment.

politics aside,  I would love to see the age of Congress start shifting back to younger ages.  When the founders wrote COTUS, they put 25 and 30 (house/senate) in there for a reason.  Might be time to start exercising those ages and move the 60 and 70 year olds out. 

As an aside, here's a list of the youngest people in congress:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_members_of_the_United_States_Congress

Just now, Tampa Turtle said:

So wait, is the sane, logical explanation that the article is legit, or that it's fake?  

On 1/14/2018 at 8:10 PM, EmberMike said:

The BSA and Lucasfilm both seem to be betting on the future rather than the past. Big risk, potentially big reward. And yes, even for Star Wars it's a risk, the franchise isn't invincible. There was already talk of people getting burned out on Star Wars before Last Jedi opened. 

Both organizations know that in order to endure in future generations, they need to figure out who their best audience will be, and not just play to the past and present audience. Both do seem to be forging ahead with a plan to create new fans, even if that means old fans lose interest. 

 

The old fans have dropped thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on the property... tossing them away like rubbish is a rather distasteful business move.   But hey, this is the company that has basically tossed it's creator, Walt Disney, into the same rubbish bin.  The real question is, will the new fans hold onto Star Wars with endearment for 30+ years and also spend that money, or will they, like just about everything else in culture today, enjoy it for about 5 minutes and then move onto the next thing. 

29 minutes ago, Chisos said:

This.  Absolutely.  A bit of decisive leadership would be refreshing.

Ironic since BSA touts itself as "the best youth leadership program in the country" (if not the world)

Any uptick in traffic since the publishing of the article? 

10 minutes ago, qwazse said:

That's not complicated. Ask the scout. If he/she cannot tell you how he/she lived by the Oath and Law before he/she knew it, suggest he/she come back in a couple of months now that he/she's recited it.

For example, to my knowledge, Duty to God doesn't depend on one's ability to pronounce shibboleth.

Fair, but Each requirement requires showing Scout Spirit over the course of time between ranks.   Do you just have the scout give an example and that covers Scout through Eagle?  

There's also Positions of Responsibility and their time allotment.  

On 1/14/2018 at 10:36 PM, Stosh said:

So this whole issue begs the question:  If a GS/USA Gold Awardee were to join BSA4G, would see qualify for the eagle?

How do you verify they've shown scout spirit, which is living by the Oath and Law, two things non-existent in their programs. 

Or do we just get rid of that "ridiculous" and sentimental requirement because it should be rubber stamped anyway. 

I think it most assuredly has.  

Side note, Arrow of Light used to be the highest award you could earn in Cub Scouting and you needed to earn Webelos first.  It was to show dedication above and beyond.  Now, it's just another grade.  It's degraded what the award means.  

The great irony here is that because of who she is as a figure in this whole sea of change, that will carry far more weight than Eagle Scout on any application or resume .  She will either be heralded as a hero and rubber stamped her application, or castigated as a villain and buried at the bottom of the pile.  Having "Eagle Scout" on her paperwork at this point has little relevance in her college aspirations, even littler than what current Eagle Scouts experience. 

9 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

I get a down vote for reprinting part of a CBS article? LOL

It was downvoting the sentiment of the article and her statement, not you.  I removed it.  

On 12/28/2017 at 11:39 AM, David CO said:

I saw the movie last week with the grandkids. I wouldn't have gone to see it except for my wanting to spend some time with the kids. I didn't like it at all.

All the things you say about the tone of the film is true. One thing you didn't mention is the film's anti-religion sub-theme. The film implies that religion is the cause of all strife, and that the only solution is to abandon the old religious writings and customs. 

Yes, I do see a parallel with BSA.

I didn't get that at all, unless you feel the villain, Kylo Ren is right.  By the end of the film, Luke realizes he was wrong.  

That said, the plot device used for Luke made little sense considering his actions in the OT.  

On 11/30/2017 at 10:20 AM, Tampa Turtle said:

We just had a "promotional visit" on this Merit Badge (along with some of the related "trade" ones) as our last Troop meeting. There are always some boys who are attracted to this sort of thing -- we promote it as 'old school manly'* sort of thing. We did Auto Repair one year on our church van. My son was so excited when he did plumbing when he got to solder a copper pipe --did it much better and neater than I ever had--that when I needed one done in a tight space in my house I let him do the job instead of me. He was 12 at the time and did great. 

 

I view these Merit Badges as trying to drum in most boys that someday they need to know they are capable of repairing things --or at least diagnosing-- instead of just calling a repair man. Most of our parents are profe$$ionals and while they seem like good lawyers, doctors, etc seem to have a minimum of practical skills. I like to pass on what my late dad gave me --he was an accountant who could debate you on the logic of Thomas Aquinas (though he was an atheist) while pulling a transmission over the weekend for a DIY overhaul. I am not as skilled as him but I learned enough rudimentary stuff by watching and being taught the simple stuff. 

 

 

*I realize lasses can be as handy as lads it's just that until this year we were marketing to boys.

Home Repairs, imo, is one of the most important merit badges on the list.  You want to breed independence into a boy (or girl) let them fix their property. 

Agree with others, look to see if their neighbors, church, other scouts, friends need those repairs done.  tie service in to the MB, seems an easy solution. 

side note, I read (g) and "Made in china" 

Just now, oldbuzzard said:

My cynical side sees this as an arbitrary change to sell more merch since scouts will no longer be able to use older sibs necker, hat etc...

that's how I see it as well.  The iconic blue and gold cub scout neckerchief with the wolf on the back shouldn't be relegated to the trash heap.  

Ironically... the idea was that everyone in the Pack was a wolf since Bobcats and bears are not pack animals.... the badges you earned were to designated that you were TRAINED by the Bobcat, the Wolf and the Bear before becoming a Webelos.  Not that you WERE the animal.  

bleh, terrible decision. 

On 11/30/2017 at 4:31 PM, Tampa Turtle said:

To be fair it takes a special boy to pull some it off sometimes; usually a guy with some real skills who is 'pretty chill'. Some boys are a little too much drama--they just make it worse. The boy sense of fair play is a little off: 

(True story. Older boy puts assembled tent 20' off the ground, younger boys a short kid finds it and raises hell)

S: "Hey Tim, sorry man, about putting your tent up in the tree. It seemed pretty funny"

T: "Knock it off, you tore a hole it was a new tent"

S:"You can set fire to my tent if you want?"

T:{thinking) "No...gotta any duct tape?"

S:"I think we have some. I'll get it down. You can have my cobbler tonight--I really don't like it anyway"

Peace is achieved.

Later short kid asks older kid to put it back in the tree so he can sit in it and get his picture taken.

Mom returns from hike, hears the whole funny story and asks where were the adult leaders when all this hazing was going on. (fair question)

-----

Boys actually identified this as a Rose and Thorn the next day: Rose as it was pretty impressive and funny but a Thorn because it hurt Tim's feelings. Boys proposed a rule that no tents put in trees or all tents put in trees with everyone agreeing.

 

and yet without that "hazing", they wouldn't have learned, via a real world situation, conflict resolution.  And now, as boys is when they should be learning that, not as men when nuclear war is potentially on the table.  

3 hours ago, Stosh said:

.... and from outside the box, why was a too-small site selected in the first place?

Cabin camping, limited available camping, limited bunk space on a busy weekend. 

8 minutes ago, blw2 said:

I think this is a very interesting thread.  Points to a fundamental failing me thinks.

Semantics in a way, sure....

    but I'd guess that near 100% of us scouters joined a troop when we were young.  Boys today also join a troop. 

    Patrols are usually the afterthought

but

I think that this thinking is fundamentally wrong,

and points to one of the largest failings in the BSA today. 

If we would all twist our thinking around on this, to much of what has been written here in the thread....patrols as a core, sometimes coming together as a troop to compete etc... with a scoutmaster overseeing just enough to keep the patrols out of trouble (the trespassing example) and on track, etc....
 

 

This written regrettably, as my tenure as a registered scouter is coming to a close in about 8 weeks time, because my son lost interest in scouting and quit.....and I just don't have the gumption to keep on with it given that i see it as a broken system that I alone can in no way fix.

My dad joined his troop with his gang of friends (15 and 16 year olds) as a whole.  They told the Scoutmaster (who they also knew in the neighborhood), we want to join the troop as a patrol, together, or we don't join at all.  There was hemming and hawing by the senior scouts about how that's not how it's done and who the F do these guys think they are, but they were allowed to join.  Almost instantly became the best patrol in the troop winning patrol awards at all the events... much to the chagrin of the senior scouts. 

I really wanted to do it this year with my son, but it was a busy weekend, and we just couldn't make it work. 

13 minutes ago, SSScout said:

Limited space?   Make sure all have sufficient prior notice and opportunity.   First come, first paid, first filled.  Cubs alone?  No.  Gotta have parental escorts in any event, yes?   Encourage the Family Camping, as noted by scoutldr.

That said, if there is enough demand and interest, organize another trip!  

No, never Cubs alone.  I agree, sufficient prior notice and opportunity is quintessential.  

Cub Scout camping trip, limited space available... 

Do you make sure all registered Cub Scouts have priority to fill those limited spots

or

Cub Scouts and their siblings get priority if they signup first?

It's been a few weeks since the original announcement - the BSA will have gotten a lot of feedback from people.  Back when they made this statement, that was their intention.  Did you give any thought to the probability that their position on this might change after a few weeks of feedback before you accused them of blatantly lying?

 

If you asked me for a loan of $100 4 weeks ago and I said I didn't have the money and you asked me again today and I did have the money, would you say my earlier statement was a blatant lie?  Circumstances change - they change all the time.  Changing ones mind or approach due to changing circumstances or additional information does not make a previous statement a lie - it makes it obsolete.

 

I fully expect that the position will change a few more times before its finally implemented.  We get it, you don't like this change - but accusing them of lying when their intentions evolve is just not Scout-like.

When a journalist releases a piece.... the facts are laid out.  If new information comes to light, it is clearly stated than an update has occurred due to new data.  That's called transparency and integrity.  If you have those things, you state that your original intent was X and that has evolved to Y based on new data.  You don't just start modifying your statement.  This isn't two people having fries and a beer and talking... this is a corporation with 2 million paying customers and is based on the concept of moral character and integrity, so stating your position has evolved shouldn't be beyond the pale.  This whole affair has been devious and underhanded from the get go.  With the deceptively named survey email, the fuzzy language when describing the situation, hidden survey numerical results, information being dribbled out.  The organization has not earned trust and respect and if this was a personal dealing where your investment dollars were on the line, most of you would most likely not be moving forward with the business.  From the start my issue has been more the shadowy nature of how it's being handled as opposed to the answer itself.  We're adults... allegedly the model citizens the program prides itself on building... we can handle open, transparent and honest discourse... National however, has not taken that approach.  

Just a general gripe... apparently 3 or 4 years ago, BSA switched from embroidered lettering on Troop/Pack flags to a screenprinted version.  I gotta say, this caught me by surprise.. and the flag just doesn't look nearly as good.  The letters don't pop off the flag.  Everything is muted and kind of subdued.  I wish there was a 3rd party alternative because I'd much rather get the Pack an embroidered flag.