SemperParatus

SA,

We just said a shoe box (no boot boxes though). One of our scouts wears a size 16 and offered his boxes to the highest bidder. Most people just used their own boxes lying in the closet. Same deal for the adults - scouts can't have all the fun.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Right on!!!!

A variation on minimalism we have done that was lots of fun was a "Shoebox Campout". You can bring whatever (food, shelter, etc.) you can fit in a single shoebox.

I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.

Some people are blessed with a great memory, some are not. While it would be nice to think that every scout can remember every requirement that they did for a merit badge and discern which were his favorite requirements and which were not, I don't think you can expect that in every case.

Recognizing this, perhaps a better question would have been something like, "I know for the XXX merit badge, you had to do a project that entails XXXX, what did you do? What do you think you learned from that project? Looking back, do you think you could have done the project differently? Are there other projects you considered? Was this one of your favorite parts of that merit badge? Why or why not?" That way, you may be able to ease the scout into remembering what he did rather than posing a question that requires instant memory and discernment. It may be that the scout had no favorite part of doing that merit badge and so he was completely honest in not having an answer. Taking it as a 'freeze' on his part may not be an appropriate conclusion.

I am sure some scouts would have an answer right away, others may require a little assistance in drawing out an answer.

You can download free elimination bracket chart creators off the web. Here is one option:

http://www.sharewareconnection.com/titles/double-elimination-bracket.htm

I would recommend considering using a more fair method of determining a winner, such as the perfect n system that ensures each car runs the same number of times down the track, runs the same number of times against each other car, and runs on each lane the same number of times. See -

http://members.aol.com/StanDCmr/ppngen.html

In my opinion, if the Pack Leadership (CM and CC) consider this to be a problem, then they should address it by approaching the Webelos Leader with compassionate concern and discussing ideas for getting through this period so that the WL can adequately address his/her personal problems and the den does not suffer.

I believe this is the perfect opportunity for the Assistant Den Leader to step up (that is why they are there). If there isn't one coming forward, consider;

1. a possible merger with another Webelos den for a limited period of time unless the numbers are just too much (e.g. >15);

2. recruiting each den parent to plan a meeting or activity until things return to some normalcy;

Putting a Den Chief in a position of essentially running a den is not fair to the Den Chief, no matter how mature he is or how much training he has received. He can assist, but don't expect him to assume a role of an adult leader.

Good luck.

E,

Why do you even bother to ask the scout to wear the uniform if it doesn't matter?

And is it wrong to have the scout recite the Scout Oath and Law at the BOR - don't see where that is a requirement listed in OGE's post from the Advancement Guidelines - all I see is that they are to be discussed - I certainly wouldn't want our Boards overstepping their authority?(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

OGE,

And it doesn't say that the scout shouldn't wear his underwear on his head either. But that does not mean the Board/Unit can't make a rule that a scout should not wear underwear on his head during a BOR.

In your earlier post you referenced 'requirements to pass the BOR' that cannot be added to. The BSA guidelines you posted offer no such 'requirements', just references to judgements, measurement, and sensing, and that the Board should have certain 'objectives in mind'. A unit expecting a scout to wear a uniform to a BOR is not out of bounds. No requirements are being added to, because no requirements exist from the BSA - merely suggestions on the BOR process.

Our Den Chiefs range in age from 12 to 14 with 13 probably the ideal age, in my opinion. It really depends on the maturity level of the scout though. Our 'best' Den Chiefs are typically those who are working with a den in which their younger brother or cousin is in - the reliability factor is much higher because scheduling conflicts are easily avoided by the parent/adults. In my experience, beyond 14 is typically a nonstarter - the older scout is usually not very interested in hanging out with preteens.

Right or wrong, our Troop had a Chaplain's Aide for two years before we were able to recruit a reliable Chaplain. The scouts serving in this position did have an adult mentor - albeit not designated as a Troop Chaplain.

SA,

You distinguish OA Ordeals as a non-hazing activity since it "involves voluntary participation in a challenge with all parameters of the activity explained to scouts in advance."

If you are referring to the words of the first night, that is a far stretch to say that all parameters are explained to scouts in advance. First, half the scouts can't hear all that is said, the other half may have heard but they do not understand - it is certainly not a clear explanation when cloaked in poetic words.

Further, the element of peer pressure is clearly evident when a candidate 'voluntarily' submits to going forward with the Ordeal. I have never seen or heard of someone backing out at that point. Talking with scouts after the Ordeal, it is clear that many simply have no clue what is happening at that point in time.

I can see where some may certainly consider the Ordeal a form of 'hazing', especially when they feel they were 'abused' during the Ordeal. It is certainly an 'initiation' rite. Wrapping it up as a BSA-sanctioned event steeped in tradition cannot change the fact that more than one scout has felt 'abused' by the Ordeal.

Hazing is truly in the eye of the hazee - either you laugh it off as humorous prank at your expense, you embrace it as part of a tradition that you are proud to have now become a part of, or you remember the pain it caused for the rest of your life.

OGE,

Where does the BSA say anything about what the requirements are to pass a BOR?

You say a unit cannot add to or subtract from the requirements, yet in the case of the BOR I do not think the BSA has ever stated specific requirements for passing, rather leaving it as a subjective determination of the board. Now, one can interpret this (i) that the BOR requirements are up to the Board (or the Unit) and they are within their authority to expect full uniforming, or (2) that because no specific requirements are listed and you cannot add any then there must be no requirements for passing. Which is it?

With the resurrection of this thread on laser tag and paintball, I share what our unit does...

Our CO is a Church with a large youth group ministry. They schedule laser tag and paintball events that appeal to boys, as well as a number of other activities that do and do not conflict with our troop program. We have always allowed the church youth ministry to 'publicize' its events through fliers available at troop meetings (they are always clearly marked as A XXX Church Youth Ministry Event - Not a Troop XXX Event and are left out on a table marked as such for anyone that wants one). Technically, the scouting program falls under the auspices of the church's youth minister, although he may not know that fact. About half of our scouts are members of the Church and are active in the youth group and already know about the upcoming event. The other half are not Church members, but youth ministry events are open to all youth not just Church members. As a result, a number of scouts could decide on their own to participate in the youth ministry's laser tag/paintball event. That would not be under the auspices of scouting or the troop, but rather the church. We do not feel culpable since the youth ministry events are never promoted in anyway by the troop and we do not censor or approve of the fliers that the youth minister places on the table. When a scout brings up laser tag or paintball as an activity, we always tell them that they are free to do so through the church's youth group.

Except for Eagle BORs, the District has no jurisdiction over a unit's BOR policies. A unit should be able to conduct its BORs in whatever manner it deems appropriate, within the guidelines set by BSA national. As OGE states, the BSA has no requirement that the full and complete uniform must be worn to a BOR. On the otherhand, BSA has no rule that says a unit cannot adopt such a policy either.

The expectation (not rule) for scouts in our unit is that the full and complete uniform should (not must) be worn for First Class BORs and above, with the understanding that by that time the scout and his family has made a commitment to scouting and so should make the investment in an official/complete uniform. Scouts may access our uniform exchange closet at any time to complete their uniforming free of charge. Consequently, scouts that do show up for BORs that are not in uniform are doing so as a matter of choice, rather than due to financial constraints. In such a case, the BOR chairman will likely include some questions during the review about 'pride in the uniform' to understand the scout's decision on this matter.

Your former CO is probably the norm, in that they do the minimum that is expected and want little or know involvement with the unit. In some cases, that is a good thing in that the CO is not intrusive in unit operations.

Our CO (a church) views scouting as an important part of its youth ministry - not as the primary, but as a supplement for those with interest in what scouting has to offer. The CO provides the basics - meeting space, equipment storage, signing forms; but also supports us above and beyond - elaborate Scout Sunday services, church leaders showing moral support with attendance at COHs, promotion of scouting activities through CO bulletins, annual Scout Expo show on grounds, financial contributions, etc. The church gets good local press because of our units and genuinely shows its appreciation through support of the church leaders and parishoners.

As you search for a new CO, take the time to meet with the CO leadership and the proposed COR before 'closing the deal' and discuss how together you can establish a mutually beneficial relationship. Carefully listen to the CO prospect to understand what they are seeking in the sponsorship of your pack. And be honest with them as to what you would like from them as a CO.

Sounds like a great 'training' opportunity...I feel a relay game coming on.

Count off...you're a one, you're a two, you're a three, you're a four, you're a five, you're a six, you're a seven. you're an eight...sorry.

Your problem is a very common one...recruiting adults to take on leadership positions and help. Currently, you are serving as the CM, the Treasurer and basically the Committee. Essentially a one man show. Perhaps all the other parents aren't really gun-shy, they are just taking it easy, enjoying the entertainment of watching you work like a dog. This forum is full of threads on advice regarding recruiting. I would suggest that you check them out.

I really could not follow who is the CC now, but it probably does not matter since you say you "take care of most of the committee responsibilities". The recruiting probably has to start there and then work your way through the rest of the committee positions (starting with Treasurer next).

Check your PM for access to our Troop's Library of Forms.

TundraHawk,

I keep coming back to your message because I feel your pain. You have a tremendous sense of obligation to the boys in your pack. The more I look at this...you are basically in a position of starting a new pack - the old one died with the charter. Now, the good news is that you already have boys, some leaders, probably a PWD track, a flag, some money, etc. Wow! - that is so much more than others that are starting a pack fresh. What you need are some dedicated adult leaders to make things happen - starting with a CC and a CM. Whether you know it or not, you are starting to fall into the CC position now - maybe you know that but don't want to see it. Your group needs the professional help that your District exec can provide. Talk to him/her/her about all the problems and get him to help you. Have a mandatory parent meeting to lay out all the problems, work hard on the recruitment effort, get a new charter partner...and throughout the whole time make scouting fun for the boys. It will not be easy...in fact, it will be VERY hard. But you do have a lot of things going for you already, the biggest of which is your dedication.

And welcome to the forum.

You don't need a shot...you need a rest.

You need to get your District and Council professionals involved to determine if there is any hope for resurrecting this pack. It sounds dead to me, but for the dens continuing to operate. If neither you nor any of the other adults are prepared to commit to this salvage operation, then its time to scuttle the ship and move on. Your great group of boys are being done a disservice by not being provided a vibrant pack program - they may be better off somewhere else as well.

ozema,

FYI - The Australian government is forecasting a $2.4 billion cash surplus.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2004-05/at_a_glance/html/at_a_glance.htm

Trevorum,

You give two possible reasons for the failure:

1. Did not show enough leadership on the project, and

2. A judgment call that he was not mature enough.

Which is it? If failure was due to project leadership, then this scout would have to do another project (he can't go back and show leadership on a project that has already been completed if the Board says the leadership was lacking). If it was only a 'maturity' thing then he can schedule a new BOR in the future when he (and probably the unit leadership) feels he is ready and no new project would be required. What specifically did the BOR write for the reasons of the failure?

I hate to say it, but one of the risks of sending a 13 year old up for Eagle is getting a 'district guy' who is predisposed that the scout is too young. I have heard this so often in our district, that I would never recommend it to members of our troop.

EagleinKy,

Nice research on the B-P quote.

And, if I may lead the forum in a rousing song...

Happy Class III Physical To You

Happy Class III Physical To You

Happy Class III Physical dear Eaglein KY

Happy Class III Physical To You!!!

(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

It looks like you asked the same question last June and got no response. I would suggest calling your local council office, they should be able to provide you with a list of counselors. The BSA Lifeguard Counselor Guide would probably be the best book for you to review, but assuming you do not have access to that, I am sure the local library or local Red Cross office have some 'study' materials. Good luck!

Oooooo....PORK! Lunch time!