ronvo

I agree with GB

I spend much more time reading here than posting and have learned a great deal. Rooster your input to the discussions on Scouting will be missed and are a loss to this group.

But I undertand that it can be come an obsession.

God Bless and Keep, and Happy Trails,

ronvo

That it is your choice and what you prefer makes sense and is a plausible answer. ( I know my wife at time- especially allergy season - would prefer her own room everynight!)

But I still don't think that it "doesn't look right" should be a reason.

I always prefer to tent alone and my wife enjoys the bed to herself when I am away with the Scouts!

YIS,

ronvo

GWD

If you are married why would it "not look right?"

I think we are trying to overprotect the boys from non-existent problems. Your children know you sleep in the same bed.

Do you sleep in another room when your children have friends over to spend the night?

Maybe it would be good for some of the boys to see a helathy relationship. We all know how many kids today are the creation of unhealthy relationships.

I think it is silly that we as a society don't even know who we are and engage in such conversations.

JMO,

ronvo

Interesting - I have never used a sewing machine, but there is an old treadle machine my wife has sitting in our bedroom!

I wonder if it works?

Hmmm!?

ronvo

Alas Frostline is no more.

Here is interesting link to history of Frostline and other outdoor gear.

http://www.oregonphotos.com/Frostline1.html

ronvo

PS,

Thanks for the reply!

What material are you using for the pack? Is it coated? Where do you get the materials.

I like the idea of making my own - but I would sure change some things on the pack. I think I will give it a try.

Frostline- haven't heard that name in years and in fact was trying to think of it just a couple of days ago. Are they still around? I use to get their catlog years ago but never made anything.

ronvo

Anarchist

Now that's what I'm talking about! You guys seem to have your stuff together. Do you have troop web site?

Our troop's families really don't have many money issues either. It's more a matter of what is seemd correct. When the SM has only a shirt on with jeans - it is no surprise uniforming is a problem.

Thanks for the reply andideas.

ronvo

Roger,

We cleaned out my son's room to paint and update and so have a box of books I will be sending you.

Glad to hear your mother is getting to go home. Have dealt with similar issues with my mom past couple of years. Unfortunatly I am 600 miles from her and my brother has the burden.

Will let others know of your book needs.

YIS

ronvo

Thanks Oren - any recommendations?

But before your CT pack what did you have?

I had a hand-me down OFFICIAL BSA Canvas Yucca Pack. Not sure which number. Used it for a year till the troop went backpacking.

My son who just crossed over is enamored with a Made In China cheapo Yucca pack we got at a garage sale for $2. I want to get him a good pack too for his birthday so any suggestions for a Youth size pack (he his a small fellow) are appreciated too.

YIS

ronvo

Thanks for the input.

My thinking for doing it on the council level ( and Anarchist (I always have to be careful- I keep seeing Antichrist No Offense - just my presbyterioptia sp? kicking in)I agree - HA!)

Anyway my thinking was the discount the council could offer. How many of th units that do this use it to promote Uniform over cool camp gear?

But I agree it will have to happen at the unit level and I hope to use it to promote uniforming. Maybe the troop can kick in the extra so the boy gets a discount.

Anyways - any details you have on how you do it in your unit would be appreciated.

thanks

ronvo

I am sure this is not an original idea and maybe it was discussed before.

Why not have the councils that sell Popcorn issue vouchers for uniform parts (mainly pants and shorts) at discounted price to promote proper and complete uniforming.

For example if Scout sells amount of popcorn that earns him $100 he can get voucher for pants (value $35) but also receives $70 cash (discounting th pants $5 for the Scout ) plus he has earned his uniform himself.

I am sure there are flaws that I haven't thought of but do believe a plan something like this could help with uniforming

 ronvo

1. My first Boy Scout campout, Catholic Scout Retreat Oct 3-5, 1973.

I had joined the Monday before.

2. Taking my son on his first Cub Scout overnight (and now staying home this weekend while he goes off on his on to his first Boy Scout weekend camp)

3. Philmont - In the Winter - Our Explorer Post in Houston would drive to NM and stay at Philmont (A number of years in the Hunting Lodge!) and ski at Angel Fire

4. Being Patrol Leader and our Patrol winning a Blue Ribbon at Camporee.

5. BWCA trips - all 4 of them.

6. Being on Staff at Cub Day Camp (@ Camp Strake '76 and '77).

Trev - I think you are right about an online edition.

BUT I also think they could improve the print edition by putting Scouting Skills back in.

The reason BL no longer publishes the BL Reprint series is there is nothing worth reprinting.

It seems run by a bunch of J-School types and not Old Scouts like Green Bar Bill.

Some would obiviously say the Scouting Skills wouldn't Go over. But then why are boys in Scouting and where sels can they get the info.

I think the whole of BSA needs to look at settling for quality (better program) over quanity (be satisfied with smaller membership

I.E. Not try to be all things to all people.

ronvo(This message has been edited by ronvo)

From the two accounts I have read it is not clear whether the Eagle candidate is one of the boys or not.

Boy Scout, friend, both 16, arrested in theft case

The Salt Lake Tribune

Logan police arrested a Boy Scout and his friend, saying the pair ran a theft ring and stole from a Logan drug-abuse-prevention center where they had volunteered. Police say the Cache County 16-year-olds were tried to redeem stolen gift cards at a Logan entertainment store.

The boys served at the Community Abuse Prevention Services Agency for an Eagle Scout service project, said Logan police Detective Scott Bodily. The agency reported several Hastings Music gift cards stolen March 1, shortly after the boys had volunteered to paint some of the agency's hallways. The boys were arrested about two weeks later when they tried to use one of the cards, Bodily said.

The investigation of the thefts at the abuse center led detectives to an account on the Internet auction site eBay that was used to sell items that police believe are tied to reported thefts in the area going back to August.

The thefts included two diamond rings and a custom mountain bike with a value of $2,800, said Bodily. The boys are accused of fencing almost $10,000 worth of stolen property. Officers expect to recover almost $6,500 worth of stolen items. The diamond rings' owner declined to press charges once they were returned. - Michael N.

Does anyone know what happen to Camp Trails?

Seems maybe Eureka bought them but isn't marketing the packs.

I have an 30 year old CT that is dry rotted but the frame is good and was wanting to replace the bag. Does anyone know what other bags might fit the frame?

thanks

ronvo

Eagle

I don't disagree with you. I think our problem is defining the Patrol Method and having specifics on how to implement it.

With young or any boys you can't just say here's your troop - run it. OLD NEW said he thought he was pusing the patrol method too soon. He did not give specifics so we can't say yea or nay that he was doing it wrong. My point is you can't start a one way w/o the patrol method and then switch to another.

It DOES have to be develped but you can put them in patrols and with adults acting in boy leadership positons - begin the developing the patrol method. Sounds like this is kinda what you all did and it is working. I don't think you can do the "troop" method and then switch and have it work. You would have lost time and have to start from square one.

What we don't see is much information on how to develop the Patrol Method. I think many see it as either or when it should be a process.

Does that make any sense at all. I don't know if I am doing a good job of conveying what I mean. Which may very well be the problem so many have with the patrol method.

Eagle - I think we are in agreement - but we have to define the patrol method and maybe create steps to developing it. Maybe you could share more of the specifics of what you have done.

I admit to not having done this as a Scouter. However the troop my boy just crossed into is adult run and seems disorganized. At the troop meeting this week one of the ASM's talked to the new boys about the upcoming camping trip, equipment, packing, made a menu etc. The older boys were wandering around- no program - at times in and out of the younger group. The SM for at least 15 minutes was off talking to another parent about something unrelated to scouting.I attribute this all to lack of the patrol method.

As a boy I was in a Patrol Method troop. Granted it was 30 years ago and not that we were the best troop around - but we were good - knew our stuff and were boy led with adult guidance.

END RAMBLINGS HERE

YIS,

ronvo

Old New

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear the boys would rather have someone spoon feed them their fun, than to come up with their own ideas and adventures. I don't see how you could have pushed the patrol method too soon - it is the only way to do Scouts.

You are to be commended for trying. Hopefully you have been able to offer your services and wisdom to another unit.

YIS,

ronvo(This message has been edited by ronvo)

Kraut wrote: Some who have weighed in on this matter seem to have no sense of what a uniforms designed purpose is, so I will attempt to illustrate that here.

I think most folks on this forum are well aware of what uniform means and I for one resent your patronizing.

I don't think anyone on this thread has said they did not support the uniform method. I for one am working to get our Scouts in proper uniform and I do point out to OUR SCOUTS when something is misplaced.

The point of the thread is whether or not individuals (namely adults)should take it upon themselves to point out unform errors (especially on youth) and tell them "what must be done" to those who specifically are not in their unit.

My personal opinion is adults who do this must have a self-esteem problem and get off in showing their false sense of superiority in such matters.

I fully agree that uniforms should be, well, uniform and it is one of THE METHODS OF SCOUTING - however I think it is something to be taken care of at the unit level.

If I am trying hard to get my boys in uniform and they show up with unform shirt on with patches and shirt-tail tucked in, with a proper neckerchief and green (maybe not Official ) pants, then that is a step forward for our unit from uniform shirts w/o any insignia, untucked and sweat pants - I do not need someone busting that boy's balls because he has a patch out of place.

DOWN WITH THE UNIFORM POLICE

ronvo(This message has been edited by ronvo)

Thanks for the reply L-bob

My opinion is however that uniform inspections should be performed by the PL and SPL except in the instance of a SM or his/her Assistant doing as it how-to instruction to the boy leadership.

I see no place for a UC to come and inspect boys' uniforms.

As Ask Andy was quoted in the first post:

As a Commissioner, your dealings are with unit leadersScoutmasters, Cubmasters, and Committee Chairsand not directly with Scouts, so leave em alone. Your primary job is to help these leaders deliver the best possible Scouting program to the youth they serve. You provide the big picture, the vision, the guidanceand you leave the details to them. If you want to help in the uniforming and badge or badge placement areas, the best you can do is be a shining example, and let it go at that.

ronvo(This message has been edited by ronvo)(This message has been edited by ronvo)

A year later - does anyone know how this troop is doing or if it is doing.

You still out there Old ASM New SM?

Be interesting to know how it went.

ronvo

MV wrote:

Well, something inside me snapped. I could not keep silent. I didn't see the SM right off so I went to the SPL and explained what must be done.

As a good Scout I am sure the SPL was courteous, I can only imagine what he thought though.

I was a UC then (still am)and I felt I was in a position of responsibility to point out this uniform infraction.

Is that in the job description of a UC?

My DC has asked our groups of UC's if we have conducted uniform inspections of our assigned units. (I have.) At the very least, a UC should do uniform inspections of his assigned units.

At the very least!? That sounds like the last thing a UC should ever do.

Is this really in the job of a UC. I thought their job was to advise and help the adult leaders of the unit. This sounds like the commandant coming in for inspection. I would not allow it in a unit I was Master of.

Down with the Uniform Police!P>

ronvo(This message has been edited by ronvo)

Trev - I agree.

Obivously the Scouting community is upset over the situation. What I see here on the forum is that many who post are in support of the "Professionals" and they think the volunteers who go against the "professional's judgement" are just rabble rousers.

That is until it happens in their council.

OSO,

ronvo

Thanks for the update Trev.

I am sure that even a small quality die for casting medals can run into the thousands of dollars.

While I see how the BSA could say that an award can't be worn it seems with all the other "uniform infractions" that few would notice or care.

That most scouts wear the square knot which is universal - representing all faiths' awards so who would know.

Finally it seems silly that time and money is wasted by a Natioanl BSA committee on such matters that really don't bring Scouting to boys.

Don't get me wrong I do understand that BSA felt they were being attacked through the peripheral materials and were trying to right what they saw as a wrong.

OMO

ronvo

Trev, Have any Scouts earned the UUSO Award yet?

What is the status of the whole UUA UUSO Situatation and the old UUA award?

 It seems strange to me that the BSA should make any judgement on a particular denominations award. The award is given by the denomination not the BSA.

Doesn't seem to fit with the BSA's religious policy that "it (BSA) is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life."

rv

I see the the three modules are called "Know," "Be," and "Do" -

And the book is only 25 pages? Maybe we are getting back to real scouting

Form the 1934 Handbook's Eagle Requirements:

FOR ME TO BE AND DO

Maybe instead of presenting it in the church basement with powerpoint slides and bought pizza it would work better at camp or at least at the park and the boys cook their own lunch?

just an idea to put the outing back in Scouting

ronvo