roguedawg

Hey Scouts,

I read the Royal Ranger thread. I thought you would like to hear about Royal Rangers from a Royal Ranger. I grew up in scouts all the way from Cubs, Webelos, Scouts, Law Enforcement Explorer Post, OA to Eagle Scout and left scouts after being engaged when I was 26. My dad was SM and my brother and I were heavly involved. I love scouts! My troop had great leadership and grew from 5 boys with 2 adults, to about 55 scouts and about 15 adults leaders. I went right up the leadership from PL, SPL, JAS, ASM, and SM. I help start another troop, and worked with other smaller troops. Scouting was big in the surrounding towns I lived in. We even had about 10% of the guys I graduated with earned their Eagle Scout rank. Scouting was a major impact on my life and others.

After we got married, we decided to attend an Assemblies of God church and was approached to start a Royal Ranger Outpost and be the Senior Commander (2 White Captain Bars). There are some differences between Scouts and RR's, but more similarities. I believe that I run the outpost more like a scout troop than an outpost. Can you take the scout out of a scout?

As scoutldr said concerning the RR uniform. This man was out of uniform. Our uniform dress code is much more strict than scouts. 4 rows of ribbons are out of spec. Blue jeans is definately out of specs. I wear my ribbons as an example to the boys rather than for bragging rights. (The solid colors represent that different colored boarders of merit badges. The multicolored ribbons are training or achievement awards) Khaki Dickies shirts and pants are very common and cheap. We are as well changing our uniforms to the duel shorts/cargo pants (navy blue) and Khaki shirt. We have our dress uniform for Uniform Sunday once a month (like 12 Scout Sundays) and a utility uniform for camping rappelling, paintball, ect.

click23 is corect. RR is used to Reach, Teach, and Keep boys for Jesus Christ. RR is to train up boys to serve the Lord in church, in work, in civic duty, in the military, and as missionaries.

Gunny2862 may be correct. I don't think you are being negative, but truthfull. In my section, almost all OPs camp all year round, but other OP's do not. I would think that if an OP does not camp, it would be quite boring. I have heard that other OP's do not camp at all. To bad for them. My op had 5 camp-outs this year including a canoe trip and rappelling. Boy lead is a weak area, but that is changing. I am having major struggles getting the boys trained to lead themselves and run a patrol like it should be run. (The boys are still young yet.) I am training up the boys to be leaders not followers. Yes, funding is always an issue. I don't expect the church to "pony up" for my OP. The boys need to earn the money for equipment and camping. I don't want a welfare attitude in the OP. I a definately not going to allow the youth group to ruin my OP equipment! So if we earned it, we can say who can use it...that is if we allow them to use it.

allangr1024 is correct. In my old scout troop the leadership was comprised of 5 different denominational churches. Basically the extension of the churches men's ministry. We would compare each other's doctrines openly and without any arguements. My dad would check in with boys pastors to make sure they were active in church and spiritually growing. I would rather have more boys from other churches in my OP. My job as senior commander is to train up leaders and they don't have to be from my church. I would rather they bear fruit in their own church. So far we have boys from CMA's, Baptist, Mennonite, Non-denoms, and our own church boys. I would rather reach out to the boys that don't have a dad in the home.

Flyingfish and Novice_Cubmaster - I think this person has a spiritual pride problem. Yes, "The BSA is a Christian organization". I hope you can forgive them for their error. The mother should have said that RR was a (mainly) pentecostal organization.

When I attend RR commanders training and other events, I alway wear either my Eagle or my NESA bolo tie. I get mixed responses. I was told to "take it off" since it was not part of the RR uniform. I replied that, "I earned it and I am going to wear it!" and a bolo tie is part of the uniform and not specific bolo is required. Most of the time I am asked "How does the BSA do this or that." So BSA training is injected into RR's. I use both RR materials and most of my scout materials. Almost all of the RR OP's hold the BSA in very high regard.

I know this is the exception and not the rule for BSA leaders. My son was invited to join cub scouts. I visited several packs and I was not impressed with the leaders at all. I saw several leaders smoking and swearing while in uniform screaming at the boys. They were also bashing and cutting down the cubmaster. (From my old troop mind you) Their uniforms were in terrible shape with holes in jeans, long hair, and they smelled like they slept in them. They were not a good representation of scouting and did not follow the scout oath or law. I would never have my boy in that pack. I called the CM and informed him of the problem.

I do know that there are many other packs and troops out there that are very good. If my son wants to get into cubs, I would let him go and help out. I would love it if he earned his Eagle and his GMA (Gold Medal of Achievement). I just signed up as a merit badge councilor, so perhaps I will get back into scouts as well as be in RR's. I am in it for the boys anyways. I already have a chest and I don't need a medal pin to put on it.

So why am I in RR instead of scouts? I asked the Lord to provide me with a good wife. I also promised him that I would do missions if he did. So he kept his word and I am keeping mine. God holds us to our vows. If the Lord says, "Return to scouts", I will.

Some differences between BSA and RR's. Military BDU's are quite acceptable to be worn on camp outs. BSA frowns on this. I think this is due to the strict uniforms and may change with the new utility uniforms come out this year. I wear dessert camo or khaki cargos when I am camping or doing outside activities.

Tentage - I see more trailers used hauling a lot of heavy gear like garage awnings which are used a barrack style tentage. 20 boys in one tent? Sounds like a headache to me. I prefer a 2 man dome tent so the boys can buddy up.

Leadership structure - I am the senior commander which oversees 4 age groupings based on grades. Ranger Kids (K-2), Discovery Rangers (3-5), Adventure Rangers (6-8), and Expedition Rangers (9-12). I want to have two group leaders (Two Blue Captains bars or a single blue bar) in each age grouping. Yeah right, like thats going to happen. So I group the three older groups together like a scout troop. A leaders conduct in church and outside of church is very scutinized. Training is much harder than scouts. Women are not allowed to teach in the DR,AR, or ER groups, but I my OP I have a woman that is getting trained up as a leader and she works with the older boys. She does a good job at it too. She just can't go camping. At least for now in the US. Outside the US, not a problem. Believe me, it is much more of a challenge to run a RR OP than it is to run a scout troop.

Merits - we have Bible merits as well as Skill merits. A certain number of each is required for rank. Some merits are 4 times as hard as scout merit badges. One badge in particular I wish the BSA would adopt. It is the Bachelor Merit. After teaching that one, I didn't want any boy giving me reasons why his mom did not iron his uniform. It is up to him to iron his own shirt and pants! (older boys)

Camping - It is not the main focus of RR to camp, but it is a very important tool to be used to work with the boys. It does not make to much sense how good a camper a boy is if he spends an eternity in hell. In the eternal outcome, I would rather lead a boy to the Lord and teach him how to get to heaven than to teach him how to light a fire. There is more than enough fire in hell.

Campfire programs - I have been to some very good scout campfires, but almost all of the RR campfire/worship services were awesome. It is common for them to go on for several hours. I have seen so many lives changed after a campfire service.

Paid staff - We have about a dozen paid staff at the national level. All are ordained pastors and most are GMA's. Everyone else are volunteers. RR is a ministry not a business. The local BSA DE in my area is so awesome. He will do very well to build up the local troops. I really like the guy.

A really big difference is "ROTY" which is Ranger of the Year. A RR earns points based on merits earned, advancement, attendance, participation in school, sports, missions, grades, ect. They are awarded OP ROTY and go up to the sectional level, up to regional level and then national ROTY. It takes into consideration the entire boy not just his OP activities.

What is common to both groups? The Boys. That is why we do what we do. We want them to turn out to be good men, leaders, workers, and fathers. What do we want in return? Nothing but a thank you or a smile. Do I get an "Amen" in agreement?!

I didn't mean to write a book. I hope this has help everyone to understand RR. If you have questions, feel free to PM me. I also post on Rangerforums.com. I know that some scouters post there as well. God bless. RD

I read this thread and by the end of the thread my head was spinning. I grew up in scouts from cubs all the way to Eagle and stayed in until I was 24. Things changed both good and bad. Almost all good. Now, 16 years later, more has changed, good as well as bad. I am involved in Royal Rangers as well as getting back into scouts. Us Royal Rangers are seeing the same trends as the BSA is seeing. We are also having a lot of changes going on with the uniform and program changes. So I can relate. I ask a question for you. Why are you involved in scouting? I had to ask myself the same question. Am I involved for myself or the boys? If you are in it for yourself, you are in for the wrong reasons. Youth numbers down? If you can't keep the boys involved in scouts or royal rangers, you can't change their lives. Keep the focus on the boys. Focus on a boy-lead program. I think camping is very important, but it is only a tool. I think is would be very unwise to get away from it. But that is my opinion.

We are having a success with reaching the Hispanics. In our Spanish Eastern District (New York City Area), the outposts are growing. How are they doing it? I have no idea. I think it has to do with the family involvement. Boys go to Royal Rangers and girls go to Missionettes. I think that scouts is at a disadvantage with that since there are two organizations - BSA and GSA. Where RR and M'nettes are housed under the same roof. We can share leaders and resources. Perhaps BSA should work more closely with the GSA?????

There are some barriers though. I attended a Regional Commander's Conference last year in Bethlehem, PA. (No Mary and Joseph were not there, nor the three wise men) I sat with 4 Spanish Eastern brothers and it was a little awkward since they were speaking Spanish and I could not understand everything they were talking about. They probably felt the same way since us 4 guys were speaking English and not Spanish. BUT, we were on the same page as the program goes and the focus was to be better leaders to serve the boys better.

I think the decline in youth is due to the breakdown of the family and because of that, lack of parental involvement. Moral decay? How far can we down can we go as a country? I am not complaining, but stating that it is even more reason to stay involved with the youth and make sure that morals are being instilled and being passed on. Keep training up leaders and let them go lead.

It is a hard call for upper leadership in either organization. I guess you have to keep the the core values but be willing to adapt as time goes on. The bad aspect is that you don't want to drift too far from the core values. I can't see the BSA or RR going away anytime soon. RD

When I was a scout, our troop used to love the polar bear camp outs. There a few moments that stood out. One year, there was a thaw just before the event. The snow had turned to rain which made Elk Lake at Camp Brule' smooth as glass. My buddy and myself got our sleeping bags and got out to the center of the lake to watch the meteor shower show on Saturday night. It was awesome!

One time there was an ice fishing demo going on. One of the ASM's had an ice auger and made several fishing holes. They had some gear to show off and sitting behind them, they had a 5 foot salmon. So after the demo, they showed off the fish they had caught. You should have seen the boys eyes then they pulled out a 5 foot salmon with a 12 inch belly on it. Usually the adults would snarf their coffee at that point if they were drinking it.

I wish we had a video camera to get some footage. Perhaps an idea for someone else to do. Hint, Hint.

The coldest was about -5 degrees. We started to come into camp and the DE had canceled the polar bear due to the extreme cold temperatures. More troops were rolling in and setting up camp. All the leaders outvoted the DE and we had the campout. Oh it was cold, but everybody had to report into leaders every 30 minutes to do a cold check. We didn't have to worry too much about getting wet, just exposed skin. We survived and the boys had some bragging rights.

One scout I met in college was from Maine. They went out on a winter camp out and we caught in a big snowstorm. The parents asked the National Guard to "rescue" them. They found all the boys save, sound, and having a good time. They forced them to leave camp, even though they were fine. The scouts ended up cooking a meal for the soldiers since they did not bring any rations with them. The soldiers thought it was funny that they had to rescue some scouts that we not in any danger and we living quite comfortable.

Enjoy the snow. RD

Pray is up from Sayre, PA. Jehova Rapha - the Lord is my healer.

SR540Beaver,

Nobody stole my thunder since I didn't come up with the idea in the first place! HA! Thanks for the link. I will check it out later today. So where is the thread to the stoves on this forum? There is a vast knowledge base out there to draw from. I like this kind of DIY stuff. I was taught to improvise by my ASM. He said that, "Usually the answer to a problem is within 50 feet of you." It has been tested and usually is correct.

I ran across this alcohol stove while surfing on YouTube. I wrote up the instructions as a handout in my Outpost. I gave some to some local troops and they liked it. I hope you like it as well.

I am new to this forum and I am not sure if I can post this .pdf in the thread. If I can't figure out how to post an image and the file, you can go to this website to download. I want to be a blessing to scouts as well as Royal Rangers.

http://rangerforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=6275&highlight=

The stove burner can be made using just a jack-knife. God bless and camp on! RD

Uniforms - "Does the clothes make the man, or does the man make the clothes?" I say both are true.

First of all, the adult leaders are the standard that the boys look at every time there is a scout gathering. In my troop, us leaders lead the boys by example. We wore our uniforms for every scouting event. If there was a chance of getting it soiled, we covered it or changed our clothes. The uniform was properly patched, no threads hanging, and proper shoes being worn. Our behavior was likewise.

Second, boy leaders need to be held to the same standard. The younger boys look up to them in leadership. If they are not willing to wear the uniform, they should reconsider being in a leadership position. This is "scout spirit" and rank being given should be considered.

Third, All scouts should be proud to wear their uniform. There is nothing in Scouting that they should be ashamed of. I was proud to display my badges and uniform when I was a scout.

Forth - This is hard to do, but all teenagers want to fit in. A two edged sword. At scouts it is easy to get them to wear a uniform because everyone is wearing one. Getting them to wear them in public where schoolmates may pick on them is different. As a scout, I did not let anyone speak down about scouts or my uniform. Once my patrol and troop members saw that I would not back down, they too developed that spirit. This spread to scouts in other troops in my school.

"The man makes the clothes"

Even if a scout is out of uniform, they should still have the conduct of a scout.

Many times when we would do service projects, people would come up to us and make comments that we all looked good in uniform. Many were older people, but there were some younger ones. I remember when some girls as school commented on how we looked. We had no problem getting the scouts wearing their uniforms after that. Girls still like seeing guys in uniform still goes. Also girls do not like seeing guys being ashamed of being in uniform.

RD

Hello all,

After I earned my Eagle Scout, I was told that having this rank would be good on a resume'. All I knew was that I earned my Eagle Scout. Well about 10 years later I had a job interview at Cornell University. The first thing that my future boss said to me was, "You have on your resume' that you were an Eagle Scout." My reply was, "I earned my Eagle Scout 10 years ago and I'M STILL an Eagle Scout, not past tense." He liked my response and proceeded to give me a board of review.

He even asked me what the two stars meant on the scout badge. He asked me if I was "Prepared". I answered "yes" and he asked me to pull out my pocket knife. I told him that it was just like his knife sitting on the filing cabinet behind me. He then tossed me a piece of rope and had me tie about a dozen knots. This guy worked me over for about an hour.

So he asked me if I had any questions. So I boarded him back. I nailed him on a couple of things. He seemed to have forgotten what his Eagle project was. We never talked to much about the job opening. So I ended working for the guy. While I worked at CU, he introduced me to many other Eagle Scouts that were PhD's.

So the moral of this little story is that if you are an Eagle Scout, you would be best to "Be Prepared". You never know when someone will give you a board of review.

Has anyone else have had a similar situation as this? Expound please! I would like to hear it. RD

Hello All,

You all have good comments on respectfully retiring our nations colors. When I was a scout our troop would have a Flag "cremation" ceremony with the local American Legion. I made a crematory out of a 275 gallon oil tank. It would open up and we would drop in the folded Flags.

We did not like to use the word "burn" for Flag retirement. We felt that we were cremating a soldier, since blood has been lost to ensure our freedom. We probably cremated hundreds of Flags over the years.

I remember one instance where I was folding a Flag and there were not any grommets on it. The Legion Commander told me that is was a Flag that was covering a soldier's casket. It was not designed to be displayed on a pole. It really cut us scouts to the heart. We inspected the Flag, and found that it was in good condition. The Commander said that it was not worthy of retirement and gave it to me. I have used it since to teach Flag use. I also tell the story about it.

I was at work telling some people about our upcoming Flag cremation. One guy walked in on the conversation and thought that since I was in college, I was going to participate in a Flag burning protest. I gave him the time and the location of our "Protest". He showed up ready to pound my face in and then discovered what we were doing. He had served in the Marines. Afterwards I introduced him to the Legion Commanders and they had a good talk with him.

Everytime we would have a cremation, everyone had tears in their eyes; especially the veterans. I have never understood why people would burn our Flag as a protest.

I like the idea of handing out the grommets. This would definately prove that the Flags were cremated.

For all you troops out there. Get hooked up with a local American Legion. They really support scouting. Thank them for their military service.

RD

CampCrafter,

My son Caleb is 5 right now. I am not sure what group he would fall into. I seem to remember Tiger Scouts being for pre-cub scouts age.

A leader? I got scoutmaster training back years ago. I was Ast. SM. under my dad and took over the troop as SM. for about 2 years. I went back to college and edged out of scouting. Then I met my wife. I am currently the Senior Commander of a Royal Ranger Outpost. Bascially RR is the same as Scouts, but it is a ministry through the Assemblies of God Church. I want Caleb to do both Scouts and Rangers. It is common for RR to earn thier GMA (Gold Metal of Achievement) right along with thier Eagle Scout Rank. So why not do both?

I have been checking out some local cub scout packs. To be honest with you, I was not impressed with the leaders. The four that I have talked with had foul mouths on them and were swearing right in front of the boys. They were also smoking and their uniforms were in terrible shape. I know that this is the exception, not the rule. So I am looking around at some other packs. I have to look up my old scouting buddies and see who they recommend to go to. I want to encourage Caleb to get into scouting, but I don't want to push him into it. Parents get themselves into trouble trying to live out their own childhood in their kids. Of course I would be very glad if he goes this route.

I wish we had forums like this when I was in my youth. Unless you got under someone elses leadership, it was a little hard to lead boys and other leaders. You have no idea how valuable this forum is. Rangerforums.com is also good. Some Scouters come to our campfire and chat. It is all good stuff. gwd-scouter is correct.

PM me. Who, what, where, when, why and how are you in scouts.

Thanks. RD

Hi Scouts!,

My name is Roguedawg and I am new to this forum. I am not new to scouting though. I earned my Eagle Scout Rank back in 1986 in Troop 11 out of Waverly, NY in the 5 Rivers Council (old General Sullivan Council). I got into scouts back in 1975 with my mom being a den leader. Since then I went all the way up through Webalos, Scouts, Explorer Post, and as an adult leader. I like many of my other scouts got out of scouts due to a distraction of a woman.....which is natural. HUHM -- stay in scouts or get married? I took the marriage route for 10 years now. For everything there is a time and a season. So now that we have a son, we can both do the scouting stuff together like my dad and I did. I don't think my wife is up to being a den mother though.

Looking back on life, I can say that many leaders spend a lot of time and energy to grow up us men from little boys. So I thank all you you people for doing the same thing. And you do all of this for a "Thank you". Take care and God bless. RD