Renax127

Your boys plan car camping trips?!

Well not regularly, but in North FL there are only so many places to weekend camp where you can hike/canoe in so 2-3 times a year end up being car camping. Summer camp tends to be HA stuff.

 

 

3.Kids eat first, you can manage a few more minutes.

 

 

Holy Cow, I can not articulate how mad this makes me, when parents eats first.

My first year with the Cub Scouts the pack went on a cold weather camping trip to a state park that had a heated dining hall. We slept in unheated (built in the 40's) cabins. Over night the second night it got down to 20 degrees, me and all of my Tigers stayed in the cabins all night just fine. One of the adult leaders (an Eagle)slept in the heated dining hall, I lost a little respect for him.

That sad even when I go with Boy Scouts if it's a car camping trip I take me cot, still sleep in a tent though no matter what.

I have to ask' date=' however, how would you identify an "esoteric" belief?[/quote']

 

Well in this case I meant is like "hard to understand" the point is I can't really know much about any religion unless I belong (or perhaps spent time studying it). For instance I've never been to a synagogue or spent any significant time talking to anyone of the Jewish faith about their faith. So there is no way I can judge whether or not a Scout is following his faith.

That is a pretty good explanation of reverent I guess' date=' but we members of the BSA still have to contend with the Scout Handbook "A Scout is [b']Reverent[/b]. A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others."

 

And there is that "duty to god" thing in the oath.

 

I like your suggestion Matt.

 

Barry

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Well the problem with that is how do you as someone outside a scouts religion or spirituality determine those things. Really the only ones that can make that call are the scout and his family. And what about the more esoteric belifs?

For example a diest believe their religious duties amount to living you life governed by reason , well it's a little more complicated than that but you get the idea. They are also distinctly NOT atheist.

Possibly it is the updated infomation in the shooting sports manual. Please review the update list, the consolodation of this into the actual manual is a work in progress but do not know what the timeline is. In the interium you may need to look at both.

 

http://www.scouting.org/Home/OutdoorProgram/ShootingSports.aspx Has both source documents.

 

It may also be ballistas vs. catapults that was conveyed at your RT, but don't know exactly what was said.

 

Yours in Scouting,

 

Richard

Just another secular/political/social organization trying to dictate the standards of someone's religious tenets. Our forefathers left Europe along with millions of other parts of the world to get away from such activity. When will the world learn, dictating religion of any faith just doesn't work.

 

BSA is a religious (A Scout is Reverent) organization. Not just one religion, but all religions. Now if you are not religious, so be it. Start an outdoor program that has only 11 Laws, but don't dictate to those who would like 12.

 

Stosh

Well as far as offering a more challenging Web II program, I have no problem with that. the issue is that the other parents just are not letting their boys participate in anything more challenging than the Cub Scout program. that's where the real problem lies, he's ready for a bigger challenge and I've tried to provide it but when none of the other scouts can attend what's the point.

I've had several discussions with him and he wants to go, we've visited with a few troops and gone on a camp out with one, he's going on another campout in May. That's with the troop I think he'll be joining. I get that he'll be leaving his buddies but honestly I don't see more than 2 of the current den of 8 crossing over the Boy Scouts. If he goes to our associated troop he'll at least know the scouts that just crossed over from our pack to there. Not to mention he knows several of the older scouts from their time in the Pack.

Far as his age, well the cut off here for starting school is Sept 30st and his birthday is in October. So he'll be a grade behind the scouts that just crossed but he's only a few months younger.

My son is currently a Webelos I and he'll be 10.5 in April. he is pretty much done with cubs and is ready to move on the Boy Scouts. Right now we are planning to have him cross over next August/Sept. Does anybody have any experience with a boy joining Boy Scouts that early? I want him to stay in Scouts and have fun but I'm still a little concerned it might be too soon for him.

Yeah' date=' all things in moderation. I have a "one hour a week" temp patch I put on from time to time. All in fun...a Scout is Cheerful and all that.[/quote']

 

I've got one of those that I wear once in a while. I've had some others given to me as well (potty trained, etc) I don't wear those. Not that I have anything against them in particular it just isn't the message I want to send. Spoof patches are fine but I think adults need to consider their audience when they wear them, what would be appropriate at Wood Badge or a district event is different than what would be ok at a pack or troop event.

I'm pretty sure the belt loops are not essential to the program. Scout son made it from Tiger to Life without earning one' date=' wasn't a den priority. I'm pretty sure his journey will be complete without them...[/quote']

 

Except that if your son earned every Cub Scout rank he earned multiple belt loops, as they are required for several rank requirements. Not to mention it would be hard to not accidently earn some of them.

Even in the instance were the belt loops isn't a required it is one of the allowed option (do 5 of 8, etc) so while not required there really isn't a good reason not to do it if it ties into something else in the program. Even as an addition to doing a requirement.

 

Anyway belt loops might be going away but they will be replaced by something.

I'm pretty sure the belt loops are not essential to the program. Scout son made it from Tiger to Life without earning one' date=' wasn't a den priority. I'm pretty sure his journey will be complete without them...[/quote']

 

Except that if your son earned every Cub Scout rank he earned multiple belt loops, as they are required for several rank requirements. Not to mention it would be hard to not accidently earn some of them.

 

This is a youth program, not a family program. YMCA has family programs, families are free to check them out.

 

Stosh

Great Advice lets give people reasons not to join Boy Scouts and give another option where Families can spend what few chances they have to spend time together. Since Boy Scouts is about Youth unless it is Female youth then they don't matter

I get where you are comming from given your previous post. My bear is really mad that his brother gets to go camping all the time and he doesn't. Minecraft helps. Webelos camping should be just about the boys and some parents along. This is not a Pack Campout. If those parents don't want to participate in the Webelos program, what can you do ? They are in for a big shock next year. Have you tried explaining the purpose of what you are trying to do ?

Don't get me wrong, there are a couple of good parents.

I've never taken Webelos II camping with more than one parent. Boys bunked with boys, not parents. Works just fine, never had a problem, but then I don't go looking for it by declaring a free-for-all event. In all the years I have spent with BSA I've never attended a "family" camp event, don't ever plan to in the future either. If it isn't "for the boys" it's not worth the hassle. This is a youth program, not a family program. YMCA has family programs, families are free to check them out.

 

Stosh

I was wondering how people handle Webelos camping. I have made a rule that no siblings should attend, this is causing all sorts of problems with several of my parents.

Mostly I want the boys to camp without worrying about their little brother, etc plus I really don't want to be camping with 30 odd people. Teaching the boys takes a back seat to dealing with the little kids and keeping the parents (moms in particular) away from the boys so they can actually do stuff.

Five (or more) overnight campouts for Cub Scouts is way, way too many, particularly for the younger grades. One Family Camp and Summer Camp (day or resident, depending on age/maturity level) is plenty. I'm with BD on this - if no one will help, forget the Pack-wide campouts. Focus on your Den.

 

Put up a sign-up sheet at the beginning of the year or maybe Blue/Gold.

 

Title: Campout #X Date: __________________

 

Chairman: ____________________________________ Phone #:

Support for Chairman 1: ___________________________________ Phone #:

Support for Chairman 2: ___________________________________ Phone #:

 

Food Chairman: ____________________________________________ etc.

Support for Food 1: _______________________________________ etc,

Support for Food 2: _______________________________________

 

Meal Cleanup: etc.

2 helpers

 

Camp safety Chairman:

 

Campsite Reservation Chairman

 

Activity Chairman:

Etc.

 

This process should apply to ALL activities for the year including next year's Blue/Gold banquet.

 

You can also do this for each one of the Dens!

 

Anything the Pack does gets a sheet!

 

Post all such activities with sufficient personnel to do it properly, on the wall of the banquet hall and announce that sigh-up is first come, first served. BUT!!!!! if all the slots are not filled in before we leave, the activity will be cancelled for the year. We are no longer going to do any activities without the boys properly cared for.

 

If no one, or not enough sign up, take the sheet, crumple it up and toss into the garbage.

 

If people want their boys to have a program, they are expected to sign-up to help make it happen.

 

Collect up all the sheets, contact each member on the filled sheets, and get their addresses, contact information.

 

Put it into a activity booklet and mail to each person that has stepped up to help so they can mark their calendars and plan ahead.

 

1) It puts all responsibilities for the year on each person's shoulders.

2) Eliminates last minute run-arounds looking for volunteers.

3) Everyone knows up-front what is expected from them for the year and won't be hassled down the road to do more.

4) Everyone knows up-front what activities will be done and which ones are eliminated because of lack of support.

 

Oh, no one signed up to do the Wolf den! So be it. We won't have wolves this year. Who said it's the CM's job to run around and beg for volunteers?

 

I've seen this done in other organizations and once everyone figures out you really mean it, it works like a charm.

 

Where's the summer campout going to be? Check with the chairman, he knows who is reservation chairman is and can get that info in just a couple of phone calls. What are they planning on doing? Contact the chairman, he knows who the activity chairman is.

 

Better yet send the booklet out to ALL parents and even those phone calls will go away as well.

 

Is this a harsh pill to swallow? Yep, the first year, but after that it goes like clockwork!

 

Stosh

Anyway it isn't so much the planning of an event as the adults behavior at the events that's got me wound up.

On a positive note, I am dang proud of my scouts. At the Webelos games (run by the Boy Scouts and OA) we had several SPL's ask if my scouts were coming to their troop for a visit. The were respectful, organized and well behaved. They were encouraging and helping each other at every station. My denner took the lead and got them organized and from station to station with me just making sure nobody got too crazy.

My current pack only has one Pack campout a year and I am trying to up that to two. We have Pack activities but meals are coordinated and cooked by den. Cooking for 100 people is a pain and is called catering not camping. . If turnout is low some dens will combine, this keeps the size manageable and parents involved. You may want to consider lowering the pack campouts and increasing the Webelos campouts. I personally think camping should be mostly on the den level anyway especially with larger packs, though the guidelines don't like that.

Most of my scouts are tired of pack camping as well, thye like the freedom they have den camping. They also like being able to cook for themselves, etc.

It's always the 20% (or less.... around 5-10% in our case) that get the stuff done.

I'm happy to say that I too am among the doers in my son's pack...... and I feel your pain Renax127

 

I have noticed that there's a lot of folks, leaders included, that are always conveniently gone by the time it comes around to folding up the pack kitchen, stacking chairs, or whatever..... We have one leader particular adept at playing hot potato. He is great about helping when asked. He may be chairing a particular event or chore, but as soon as another leader asks a question of steps in to help.... leadership suddenly shifts to that person, whether or not that 'helper' knows that they are now the leader. I think It's really bad in a way, but at the same time admire the smarts...... he gets "credit" for helping and seems like a hero, and yet skillfully gets out of a lot of nuisance stuff by sharing the load.

 

Renax, maybe you need to start taking the lead from the 80 percenters, and at least from time to time, conveniently having someplace to be before it comes time to stack the chairs. I'm trying to figure out how to do this myself!

 

Basement, unless it was me or my son that did the breaking.... if they refused to reimburse me for something like that, I'd be done with them too! Ridiculous! What was their reasoning for not reimbursing you?

I am burned out with pack camping, I mean I am at the end of my rope.

We have a large pack, about 90 scouts total and on most camping trip we will have 125-150 people. Getting the parents to help out with anything is a chore and even if you get them to agree to help they just don’t show up when it’s time too. They don’t watch their kids (some do of course) letting them run all around the camp and tents, thru the fire ring, swinging on the flag pole, etc. Honestly it feel like I’m parent to all 150 people.

I signed on as a den leader when my son joined as a Tiger and now he’s a Web I, I’m also Assistant CM this year. I have set up and taken down the pack kitchen and other gear at every camping trip, along with the Cub Master and a couple other dads, always the same ones, and I’m done I don’t honestly think I can handle any more pack camping trip.

I feel an obligation to attend and help out, particularly since we are the Webelos now but I just don’t think I can handle it anymore. I just want to go camping with my den and have way less stress and do fun stuff with the scouts.

Just venting a little, the trip this last weekend sort of did me in.

Well I've been trying to get approved as a Super NOVA counselor since early last summer, no answer yet from my council. I ran a NOVA program over the summer for my pack, it was mostly my Webelos that show'd up. You really need to plan each one for several meetings to give the boys time to do the work, I mean you could do a single NOVA award in a single long meeting but I think the spirit of the award is more a process of leading the boys to find answers on their own. Plus a think the after a couple hours it REALLY starts to feel like school.

As far as running a program goes, I would rather have outside mentors running the program, I think the boys would get more out of it. So the the program KDD describes sounds pretty good. I tried to get some input/help from our council and got no where. Some of the parents/scouts in my pack showed some interest in doing the work and I have some knowledge about a couple of those so I ran the program. We managed to complete the Math and Engineering awards over the summer, took a total of 7-8 1.5 hour meetings plus the work they did on their own.

Well I've been trying to get approved as a Super NOVA counselor since early last summer, no answer yet from my council. I ran a NOVA program over the summer for my pack, it was mostly my Webelos that show'd up. You really need to plan each one for several meetings to give the boys time to do the work, I mean you could do a single NOVA award in a single long meeting but I think the spirit of the award is more a process of leading the boys to find answers on their own. Plus a think the after a couple hours it REALLY starts to feel like school.

There are too many basically identical training courses (at least for Cubs/Webelos), IOLS/OWLS/Baloo, etc. In addition to too many quite frequently the "trainers" give out incorrect information, every single in person training I have ever been in has gotten YPT wrong for example. And Baloo this weekend was a waste, I'm pretty sure blw2 and I were in the same class, though I have no idea who he/she is. And if I have to deal with "tin soldiers" at another outdoor cooking event I might snap.