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Posts posted by Renax127

  1. I was talking to one of the other ASM's in the troop who recently took Scoutmaster Specific training, I haven't been able to yet. Anyway he said they were told that Scouts may not sign-off rank requirements, that they may initial it but that a SM/ASM must ensure that the Scout actually has fulfilled what has been signed off. I have been unable to find any BSA rule/guideline that says that, of course I might not have looked in the right place in the multiple documents. Can anybody help me find something on this, either way?


    Oh every troop I've ever visited or even read about allows First Class and above to sign off requirements, which makes sense to me. 



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  2. Yeah What Eagle94 said, the kids in sports do all the, "cursing and swearing, rampant racial jokes, hitting or grabbing others impulsively, etc." as well (speaking in generalities) they just do it out of the coaches ear shot. In my experience Boy Scouts tend to get more comfortable around the adult leaders. I know I was certainly more comfortable around my leaders than I was my coaches.


    Plus a coach can sit a kid or make him bear crawl a cycle if the kid does something the coach disagrees with, so the kid is more likely to make sure the coach doesn't see the bad behavior. In scouts we tend towards the "Really you think that was the right thing to do" type of guidance.



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  3. “During a planned hiking trip at Torrey Pines State Beach' date=' a local Cub Scout Pack encountered some individuals who were inappropriately dressed.[/b'] This outing, involving both parents and adult volunteer leaders, was quickly rerouted to protect the youth. Following the trip, both San Diego-Imperial Council and Pack leadership met with parents to discuss the events and determine if further action was needed. Together we concluded that proper protocol had been observed and appropriate steps were taken in this matter.†Karl Shelton, San Diego Imperial Council spokesman


    So did the Cubmaster have an approved Tour Permit? :o Isn't this "covered" in YP training?




    And I wonder why National doesn't trust the judgment of unit leaders...




    They didn't need one per BSA unless;

    • Trips of 500 miles or more; or
    • Trips outside of council borders (exception: not to your council-owned property); or
    • Trips to Florida Sea Base, Northern Tier, Philmont Scout Ranch, Summit Bechtel Reserve (you will be asked to present a copy of your tour and activity plan upon arrival),national Scout jamboree, National Order of the Arrow Conference, or a regionally sponsored event; or
    • When conducting any of the following activities outside of council or district events:
      • Aquatics activities (swimming, boating, floating, scuba, etc.)
      • Climbing and rappelling
      • Orientation flights (process flying plan)
      • Shooting sports
      • Any activities involving motorized vehicles as part of the program (snowmobiles, boating, etc.); or
      • At a council's request (Contact your local council for additional guidelines or regulations concerning tour and activity plans; many have set guidelines for events or activities within council boundaries such as for Cub Scout overnight camping.)

    It doesn't sound like any of those are true in this case, not that I know for sure. Though their council may require one under different circumstances.





    Now, I understand that Indian heritage and culture plays a fairly large role in the BSA. The OA is probably the biggest example. But I think some of them take it a little too far. Many of these services use Indian prayers and other things that reference their pagan tendencies, like, appealing to the "great spirit of the wind."


    Since Scouts Own is not a Christian service, why would including the phrase "great spirit of the wind" be an issue. I would love to see a non Christian service for Scouts own but unless I happen to get involved with a Troop chartered by a Synagogue or a Buddhist temple, etc I don't really see it happening.


    Not that Christian services offend me (even though I'm not Christian) but I would probably faint if I ever attended a Scouts own that wasn't a blatant Christian service.



    I agree with SeattlePioneer here.


    Having been my pack's Pinewood Derby Chair, and having helped run our district derby for the past several years, I agree that most of the problems come from the adults. And I think part of the problem is that the cubs aren't really allowed to make the cars anymore.


    Back when I was a cub scout, we actually made our own cars. I remember using the jig-saw and power sander to shape the car. Then I used a chisel to carve out the voids for the weights. I then spray painted it and added decals and some other bits for looks. The weights and paint I bought myself at the hardware store (went there on my bicycle), and the decals at the local hobby shop (again went there on my bicycle). My Dad was looking over my shoulder when I was using the tools and spray paint, and offering advice, but it was my project, I did it myself.


    Of course today Cub scouts are barely allowed to even touch tools, let alone use them. Nor can they use spray paint (or little red wagons - must be 14*). And letting your 9 year old leave the house without adult escort can get you arrested. So the new model is the reverse of the old one - the parent makes the car with the cub scout looking on and occasionally helping. Since the adults are actually building the cars, we get more adult egos involved. And we wonder we have problems?


    *See: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf


    Those rules have nothing to do with a boy building his car as they have no bearing in my garage,




  6. What surprised me even more was that there was no way to avoid the service part. There were many families that were not Catholic, Lutheran or evangelical. We had many Hindu, some Buddist and a few others. There was no way to avoid it as we didn't know when the camp fire would start except immediately following the service.



    Had the same thing happen at a camporee recently. Sunday morning flag raising followed immediately by a church service that would be indistinguishable from a Christian service (GOD, Jesus, prayed to etc) and after the service camp was closed. No consideration given to non-Christians. Not that I fault the Scouts that ran the service, I fault the Chaplin who didn't mentor them properly and the people that organized the whole affair that just decided everyone would be ok with the service.



    Why should it; especially since we really do not know what the guidelines may be? But, Scouting is not Christian, nor have I seen any indication that the "duty to God" element would suddenly be focused on Christianity. Such personal insecurity is more something to fear it seems to me.


    Well on another Scout group I'm in one gentleman stated plainly that if you did not believe in the Christian GOD then you couldn't be a couldn't be a scout. Since the oath states "Duty to GOD" you have to worship GOD, never mind that the BSA says otherwise.


    Now do I think that's going to be wide spread, no but it will happen. And considering that non-Christian are often ignored or made to feel unwanted of course we should be concerned. For instance I was at a Camporee recently where the Sunday program was flag raising then immediately having everyone attend a "Scouts Own" then right back to lowering the flag and closing the camp. It certainly was expect that you would attend even if it technically wasn't "required". It was also a typical Christian service, prayers to GOD, reading from the bible, etc.



  8. So the tent I've been using for a while finally is beyond repair so instead of spending a lot of money on a new one I'm thinking about just using my cot and a tarp. However I've never used a tarp to sleep under so I'm looking for some pointers. I thought about maybe using a hammock as well.


    I'm in North FL/South GA so I'm not really worried about cold though bugs might be an issue. I plan on getting a bug screen of some sort as well.



    What things can they do with the troop that they can't do as webelos as a den? I know that there are items that can only be done at a council location but I am not aware of an exception if they are with the troop.



    I have a hard copy of the GSS and it's in the margins, somewhere. it isn't in the current one online and I can't off the top of my head remember what version it is.


    It would seem on the Cub level the WDL and DL's seem to expect Pack personnel, Council personnel and Troops to pick up the slack and take their boys out camping.


    Some might but I certainly do not. I would like the troop to take the Webs camping because, by the rules, they can do more fun things when with Boy Scouts. Which honestly if the one trip they invited the Webs on was fun for them that would do way more them than multiple trips. Do I think the restriction on the Webelos activates are silly yes but I have decided I am not going to disobey them when there is a fairly simple fix. A troop Guide as PL for a bunch of visiting Webs sounds ok, though I would think a Den Chief would have been a better idea (though around here at least that just isn't going to happen).


    I don't think Web II's should be camping with the pack, going to Cub-o-ree etc, (council events here are always a circus) It's a step backwards for them. As far as me camping goes, I have taken Owls, IOLS, Baloo, and was a Boy Scout and have camped regularly my entire life. I don't need the Boy Scouts to do anything I would just like a little less attitude about Webelos from them.


    I don't think that the job of the troop is to take the Webelos camping on a ongoing basis. From a recruiting standpoint it is helpful. But just like Webelos are tired of tigers, boy scouts don't want to be with 9 and 10 year olds. Lets be honest if the troop is doing a lot of stuff with the pack the troop is probably not challenging their scouts enough.


    Webelos II are 4-5 months from being Boy Scouts, so a lot of the boys in the troop will be barely a year older. Not that I would expect a troop to invite the Webs to every camp out more than a single Webelos III type camping trip would be nice. How about inviting the Webs to go on a tune-up hike or canoeing etc. If the boys that crossed over the year before can handle the Web II's probably can too maybe they'll need a little help from the older scouts but then shouldn't those guys be offering to help anyway.


    Every single camping trip I have ever seen a Troop offer the Webeols might as well be a Pack camping trip for the amount of adventure or Boy Scout flavor they offer. And that has nothing to do with the BSA rules it has to do with the attitude Boy Scout leaders (adult mostly) have concerning the Webelos.



    As a Troop leader, I can say one trip a year with the Webelos is enough. Webelos and their parents seriously limit what the Boy Scouts can do. We have to limit activities to those Webelos are allowed to do and I end up chasing away the helicopter the entire time. "Yes I know Johny Boyscout might just burn that hamburger. But that's how the Boys learn. By doing, not by watching some adult flip the burgers for them."


    Webelos have Webelos Resident camp, council run weekend camp and a Pack campout. They do not need to be with the Troop more than one time.


    When Webelos are with Boy Scouts they can do whatever the boy scouts are doing (baring age restrictions) As far as the parents go, well that's sort of the Scoutmasters job, to teach the parents what to do/how to handle Boy Scouts. If you aren't comfortable with that that's fine but the attitude that "Webelos need to stay with the Cubs" is one of the problems with keeping boys excited about the program. By the time they are Webelos II they are, by and large, tired of dealing with the Tigers and new parents and if I'm being honest so am I.


    Webelos resident camp has been taken over by allowing the Tiger thru bears at camp with a parent. So now the already second class webelos have their limited class leaders stretched thin teaching tigers as well. Webelos II shouldn't be camping with the pack, they should be learning how to be Boy Scouts. That means camping on their own and with Boy Scouts


    I no longer work on the Cub Scout level due to the changes in the program. What used to be a opportunity for young men to grow and develop a sense of independence and maturity, it is now a family bonding program that seems to work counter to the original focus of scouting. Young Men's Christian Association did the same thing and lost it's original identify along the way. Seems as if BSA is doggedly following that course as well.





    I was never a Cub or Webelos when I was a boy and only got involved with my son but I'd have to agree. Most of my parents still want to have the whole family camp when my Webelos den camps, I don't allow that no siblings and only a single parent (which I discourage). I two families drop scouting because I wouldn't allow siblings on Den camping trips.


    What was the "Purpose"


    Honestly I didn't really care about the "purpose" too much (adult) purpose turn an otherwise fun time into a school project. If the boys aren't having fun they won't stay in the program.


    But a bunch of boys running around in the woods on their own sounds like a great boy lead leadership opportunity to me.


  15. For the first den camping trip with my Webelos I scheduled nothing. Pack camping is always so structured with little down time, so I decided the only thing I wanted them to do all weekend was run around in the woods and be kids. I did plan the cooking of meals but that was it.


    They did work on building a fire because they asked if they could, other than that they played in the mud. the consensus was it was the most fun they had had camping.


  16. The GSS is not a legal document, despite how much it may resemble one, so a law dictionary doesn't really have any bearing on what it means.


    Anyway how are you supposed to ascertain who is a guardian (using the legal definition)? Mom shows up at every meeting with a guy and says they are married. Are they or are they just dating?


    Per the program updates page one of the changes is "Duty to God incorporated in requirement to show Scout Spirit." How will this impact your sign off. Is the SM now supposed to pass judgement on a Scouts faith?


    I don't see how it's even possible for SM to decide if a scout is preforming his "Duty to god". I'm not Christian but was raised that way so I could probably make an educated guess if a scout was trying to be a good Christian. Other than that I have no idea, what constitutes a good Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. So as far as I'm concerned it's just a question for the scout "Do you perform your duty to god as you understand it" anything other than an outright "no" gets a sign off.


    I honestly have no idea how to do it otherwise.

  18. You and your son certainly did your homework. That troop is going to experience some major growing pains with that big jump in membership in such a short time. They are going to need your help on the Committee' date=' I'm sure.[/quote']


    Yeah, he just didn't find one he liked, he had some pretty tough standards. I'm signed up for the committee, not sure as what just yet, and after I'm done with the Web II's next year I'll be signing on as a ASM. This troop seems to have a good idea on where they want to go so I'm encouraged.


    Evidently this troop has traditionally been more adult led but when they picked up all the extra Scouts from the other CO, those boys were boy lead and have really been pushing that since they came over.

  19. Well after visiting 5 different troops and camping with 3 of them (one a disaster) my son finally picked a troop. they recently picked up another entire troop when their CO dropped them and went from 20 scouts to 50 since January. Boy lead, to a degree and troop focused. The incoming SM says he wants it to get more patrol focused and truly boy lead. We'll see.


    I wasn't overly impressed with the adult leaders but the Scouts impressed me.

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  20. Wow, really? No state parks or scout camps nearby? No national parks? No military property? Private property?


    I feel lucky having so many national and state parks nearby, as well as local private land we can use. I would have though FL would be teaming with places to go. Or at least head over the border to GA or AL to see what they have. Or maybe that's too far.


    The only time I could see my unit in cars was in case of lightning with no better options for shelter...or in the event of emergency.


    Not sure we are speaking the same language, car camping means driving right up to the camp site, not sleeping in a car. And there are plenty of places close by to camp but only so many that hiking in is really an option and are clos enough to be a real option to make on a Friday after 8 hours of school/work.


    Yeah they could hike into one of the scout camps along a paved road or the other close one on a dirt road but why other than to prove you can walk a couple miles on a road with a backpack. It doesn't offer any particular challenge or anything interesting to look at.


    Not to mention even boys on occasion like to take it easy.

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