rdclements

This has never come up with my crew. The venturers who are/were also boy scouts did the chits at tenderfoot or second class. The ones who came in later learned the same safety practices but we didn't bother with presenting cards.

The PB emblem is earned by doing the exact type of leadership and instruction that make for good venturers, so if they earn it they get it.

Troop A:

(+) Scout led

(+) Outing planned, decisions made, accountability established

(-) Once a month is a bit light

(-) Not a complete troop meeting - there is a standard plan & expectation

Troop B:

(-) Adult led

(-) MB class instead of a troop meeting

Maybe you didn't catch them each troop at its best.

The MB process is meant to be Scout initiated with the Scout carrying the responsibility for his own learning.

1. Scout gets a counselor referral from his Scoutmaster

2. Scout contacts counselor, arranges to meeting

3. Scout (w/buddy) meets with counselor, works out a plan

4. Scout follow his plan, contact counselor as needed for guidance

5. Scout reviews completed work with counselor, gets approval

6. Scout reports completion to Scoutmaster

7. Scoutmaster congratulates scout, records completion

8. Scout receives MB and sews it on his sash

One of the key benefits of the merit badge system is having scouts engage with multiple adults. MB classes are a cop out by the adults. Scouts accept classes because they're used to school and want the MB. It's a choice of what he will say later: either "I did this" or "they did this to me".

-R

What an interesting spread of opinions offered in this thread. Success is dependent on management (leadership) of your specific situation.

It's possible to get the Webelos so advanced that they end up bored, but this would be one of the better problems to have. I think it really depends on how much time you and your scouts have to maintain that operational tempo.

And now, it's time for a story...

I was UC for a pack with a Webelos den that did exactly what you are proposing. They had about 12 Scouts, with 8-10 making it on any given outing. Their pattern was to do a den meeting early in the month to plan the trip that they took later in the month. Each monthly campout was to an easy, inexpensive place - usually a council camp. They did nearly all of their advancement work in the field. The key was that their den leaders took things slowly and let the group gain confidence through incremental learning. The stuck to Webelos-level activities and didn't try to do MB or Boy Scout advancement.

The den all crossed over to the same troop. A few guys dropped out for the usual reasons, but most quickly earned advancement and became strong troop leaders. They also sought out the den chief and troop guide roles, and some became engaged in OA leadership.

Fish - this approach won't work for every situation, but having seen this model succeed in at least one case, I know it can work well. Thank you for your service.

-R

All of the Venturers that I serve have cell phones, email, and facebook. Most of their communication with each other is not in person. They have a FB group for the crew, and that's their most common mechanism for announcements and coordination. I use FB to keep up with them as well.

Every couple of weeks, I get a call from a crew officer, usually to inform me of something that they are planning. I prefer to work with them face-to-face, but sometimes phone and email are more practical. Our charter org policies are a bit more restrictive than BSA YP; nothing is specified about email or phone conversations.

I usually cc parents or another involved adult on emails and keep a phone log of who I spoke with and topics. I have an email archive (folders) and call info is on the cell bill detail sheet.

-R

E-Mtns,

As far as your stated intent as a MBC, I ask you to reconsider your plans. Your frustration is understandably great, however you need not penalize a scout because his SM is wrong.

At many council summer camps, they have provisional patrols for scouts who do not attend with their unit. If a scout is working on one of those MB's, you could consider his 'patrol' to be whatever group he was working with at that time. Don't punish a youth for an adult mistake.

Your son is not getting any younger.

Your SM is wasting time that doesn't belong to him.

You can't fix the SM just like you can't fix bad parents.

Only a fool fights in a burning house.

Option 1. Help your son move to another troop.

Option 2. Get yourself appointed as COR or CC.

Option 3. Find a CO and start a new unit. (It's actually very easy)

When I was a CM, at one pack meeting I gave each den a copy of the inspection sheet. They then had 5-10 mins to inspect each other and send their best dressed scout to the front of the room. Then, those guys inspected each other and figured out who was the best dressed among them. The best dressed of the best dressed took a treat back to share with his den. The adults were only observers and the scouts were motivated to get parental assistance in fixing their look.

Around my part of the world, the worst offenders are the veteran scouters who really should know better. We've got one whose shirt looks like a patch quilt. I thought it was a joke until I noticed that he wasn't laughing. Don't forget about the Venturing Advisor who wears venturing loops and insignia on a tan shirt. I know he knows better.

Back when I was a CM, we did Webelos crossover in February/March, and then had an end of the school year graduation during a pack meeting. To zippy's point, some might not come back, but a nice celebration at year end could also improve retention.

One time we made a ridiculous looking machine to process the scouts to the next level. Another time we recognized the existing 4th grade Webelos dens first, since the 5th graders had left months before. Then the Webelos scouts ceremoniously changed the neckerchiefs on each of the younger dens.

A little ceremony is fine and I appreciate any excuse to eat cake.

-R

You are right, the scout should have done all of those things. Apparently he did not. The next bugler should be held to the same standard that this one SHOULD have been held to.

"People are going to make mistakes all the time. How you deal with those mistakes is how you define your character." Absolutely. In this example, however, when the scout failed to carry out his responsibilities - "pick it up and run with it" - his leadership team failed him.

In the OP, mikemayer67 said, "I should have redirected his POR much earlier and not failed to catch it until the SMC." Yep, that covers it. We don't punish youth for adult mistakes.

Hi BrentAllen, I'm glad that you agree with me; the buck stops with the SM. In this case, the SM did not act appropriately, and that's not the Bugler's fault. If the troop activity schedule didn't do ask much from the QM, would you penalize the scout who had volunteered for that role too?

"Do we really want to be teaching Scouts that getting credit for doing nothing is appropriate?" Of course not, so the SM does not get credit. We teach accountability. Stand up and say, "I will try to do better for you next time."

There are many teaching moments available in the corrective actions needed with this troop. None of them are to punish any of the scouts, or take anything away from them.

-R

A bugler can use a trumpet or cornet as an instrument. What most folks think of as a traditional American military style bugle is technically a "field trumpet." The instrument is not an issue.

Where is the SPL in this story? As SM, it is not your place to appoint a bugler. It is not you place to "pressure" performance. Your failure was not properly teaching your SPL and holding him accountable for managing his staff.

If the scout was not performing in the POR, he should have been counseled (by the SPL) and if failure continued, removed (by the SPL) early in his tenure. For those here who like the employer/employee metaphor - counsel, counsel, terminate.

Now that the time is up, you want to penalize the scout for your failure? No way; the scout did what was asked of him - which was nothing. The scout gets credit for the job. Adult mistakes do not result in punitive actions against a youth.

Next time, invest some teaching and coaching in the SPL and hold him accountable for holding his staff accountable.

-R

I tried to have 1 Boy Scout for each den as a den chief/guide, and then at least 2 Scouts assisting at each program area. The 2nd year Webelos had some additional activities with older scouts as part of their program. Most of the Scouts met with their adult coworkers before camp to work out their relationships.

A senior scout served as SPL and managed most of the scout staff members. He also arranged the flag ceremonies, found a bugler, and was basically the designated role model. He worked with me in the months before camp to assist with planning and staff assignments. By the end of day 2, my SPL was pretty much running the camp.

I usually tried to get a couple of dads to handle the QM duties so that the Boy Scouts would have more time with the Cub Scouts.

We usually run a day and an evening camp with 200-250 CS at each camp.

-R

The first time I read the original post, it seemed to suggest that the Patrol Leader's wife was being asked to do the sewing. That's a different type of discussion.

Getting the patches on and correct is the responsibility of the scout. The right way is shown in many places. Having Mom do it is a fail. I knew a scout who took his uniform to a laundry where they offer alterations. Not my recommendation, but he found his solution.

-R

Congrats and thanks for taking this on. I served several times as a CS day camp director. It was a lot of work, but thoroughly enjoyable. I recruited a large number of Boy Scouts to serve in various leadership roles. Having many older Scouts engaged had a strong positive impact on everyone involved.

-R

KnoxDad:

As a Presbyterian Elder, I know what I believe. As an Atheist, you know what you believe. That might a problem for some, but not for me.

I suggest that you look at the actions of individual persons involved in a unit rather than at the unit itself. Some religions demand that their members prosthelytize, others forbid it. As your son moves through the program, he will come into contact with influential adults with different viewpoints and experiences. Youth is the time to consider various points of view and try out different ideas.

My son is a Life scout, venturing officer, and leader in the church's youth program. He knows scouters, teachers, coaches, summer camp counselors, etc. Some are theists, others are atheists; I don't he knows the beliefs of most of them. As a parent, I have been intentional in bringing into my childrens' lives people of good character that they would see me associate with and potentially receive influence from. I do not know the religious pedigree of each.

"I've never discouraged him from exploring religion but I also haven't taken him to church since he started school."

Your son will encounter people with many theological views. Hopefully Scouting will help him gain tolerance, empathy, patience, and the courage to decide for himself what he believes. As a Dad, what else could you want?

Going to a different pack means going to a different charter organization. Have the parent complete a new membership application for the scout and the adult partner. There is a place at the top of the forms to indicate that it is for a transfer. It used to be that the xfer fee was $1 but I don't have a form here to check that. Of course, getting back any dues paid to the old unit is up to the parent.

-R

The GA State Park group sites meet the requirements, although many of them are probably more suitable for patrol-style camping rather than a pack outing.

Why not use the excellent camps that the council has? They are there for your unit and have the facilities to accommodate family members who might prefer porcelain fixtures. In addition to being free, you also can be sure that the neighbors are scouts. When I was a cubmaster, our pack went to the council camps several times each year. The facilities are large enough that your guys will not tire of them.

The Atlanta Council OA Lodge, Egwa Tawa Dee, maintains a "Where to Go Camping?" page at: http://www.aacegwa.org/wtgc.htm

-R

When I was a Web DL, our Scouts enjoyed model rocketry. Each Scout also built his own launch control box. We went on a campout and spent most of the day flying our rockets until we either destroyed them or ran out of engines. There are many science and engineering learning opportunities in model rocketry as well as teaching moments about following plans and maintaining safety.

-R