OwntheNight

In most of da rest of the world, yeh stay in your unit / "group", and yeh move from young cubs to older cubs to Scouts to Ventures to Rovers to Old Farts to Over the Hill Farts to Dead Farts. There's no notion at all about goin' out half way through your scouting career as a youth to go shopping for a new unit.

Nothing worse than a dead fart that hangs around!

So is this model out of necessity or choice? I'm thinking the options are limited for kids elsewhere. BSA oversaturates the markets to have multiple units sitting on top of each other, fighting for the same boys. JMO

So across the pond, might there be less units in a village or town? Which would lead to youth staying in their "group" since there aren't other options available.

And what about the church influence over here. LDS uses the Scouting program as their Youth program. Churches use the Scouting program as an outreach of their youth ministry.

My understanding from talking to friends in Europe, is that Scouting is a totally seperate entity and not connected with the church, at least in the sense of not being an active part of their outreach ministry.

I joined my youth troop, because our church was the center of activities for all my friends. We were always at the church doing stuff, whether it was choir practice, Sunday School, or Youth group meetings. Scouting was just an extension of that.

My son joined the troop he's in because of the boys in his den, (and maybe a little coaxing from Dad..as well)He would have been just as happy going to the other troop we looked at because he had friends over there. But they were totally different groups, Big structured troop vs Small undisciplined troop. Ultimately he liked what BST had to offer.

Kind of like brussel sprouts, not my favorite, but if it's between brussel sprouts and going hungry. I'll choose to eat them. (This message has been edited by OwnTheNight)(This message has been edited by OwnTheNight)

Just attended the 100th Anniversary Pilgrimage and Encampment at Valley Forge in February.The longest continuous Scouting event in the country. They claim in the world as well. I would think there would be something out to the Original BrownSea Island. Maybe, some of our Scouting History experts would know.

https://www.colbsa.org/pilgrimage-and-encampment/pilgrimage-encampment.html(This message has been edited by OwnTheNight)

So AKDL,

I just want to make sure I'm hearing you right. Please let me know if I'm off base, I'm really trying to get an understanding, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or condescending in any way. This situation is very much what we're looking at with the "friends of" pack down the hall. If this directive goes national, then we would be in a position to ask the FO pack to rejoin ours.

Would your pack just recharter with another unit and then not work with that pack in their efforts. Would you be just 5 additional dens added to their roster, but have no inclination to actually merge both packs into one. Kind of a .. They do their thing, we'll do ours, because it's convenient to do things your way, instead of actually trying to blend the two groups for the common good.

These are questions that my CC and I have come up with if this situation arises. Our goal would be to merge both packs, let them keep their den's intact, but having a merging of leadership. In other words, their CM could become one of my ACM's, their CC could be the Asst CC or Secondhand man to our CC, if they so desired. But they would be equal member's of our pack, and their input would be sought after, just as their MC's would be full fledged voting members of our committee. We would welcome them with open arms as another member of our family. We would perform pack activities as one pack, camping, summertime, PWD, and anything else.

I'm an ASM of a troop of 118 boys. It can be a daunting task, but Beavah hits it right. You need lots of middle management types to buffer the time demands of the SM and troop leadership.

We have an ASM assigned to each leadership position in a mentoring role for the boys. We're there to support the boys in their duties, not oversee them and tell them what to do.

SPL and ASPL's plan the Troop meeting every week. We stand in the back and talk to parents or each other. Our SPL has gotten troop meetings to 45 min, he sends out an email to the ASM's asking for announcements. No reply, No Announcement. The only time the meetings run long is if the instructor's go long in their presentations.

We average about 50-60 boys per campout, just depends on the time of year. Fall loses alot due to band, football, etc. Spring, we get better turnouts.

We don't do as much plop camping as we use to. PLC has decided to go with more backpacking campouts where we can hike in and set up camp. We just have to think outside the box about where we go, and we have to remind the PLC when they're choosing campouts, to keep those numbers in mind.

We are blessed to have dedicated committee members and ASM's who are willing to help out with transportation. Sometimes, we do have to rent a van to meet the demands. As far as BOR's and SMC's go. Our SM wants to do all the SMC's but he is usually at the troop meeting early (for PLC meeting) and tends to stay behind afterwards. The boys do realize that his time is limiting and they try and catch him or schedule time with him for the SMC. BOR's can get hectic, especially if they come in waves. Have you or your CC talked to other parents about serving on the committee?

We're struggling to get new ASM's and CM's right now. A lot of the ASM's have been with the troop for at least 4-5 years and are ready to turn over assignments to new members.

Once again, Middle management to handle the weekly operations stuff, you know, shaking hands, kissing babies type stuff.

Good Luck and Thanks for helping out

Very surprised to see that.

just checked, our district has 12 of 31 Cub Scout units that are "Friends of" or "Parents of". Went through and counted the total for our former district, which was broken into two districts this year, 21 of 60 Cub Scout Units are "Friends/Parents of" I thought they wanted more units out there to saturate the market. Isn't that how DE's make their money?

I know there are some successful "Friends" programs, and some that are very fly by night. Personally, I like having a CO I have to report to. It's good to be able to bounce ideas off my COR since he represents the church and is looking out for their interests. It also helps when I have an issue, he voluntarily plays the "bad guy" if he needs to.

As our unit leader, this subject piques my interest. We were a larger unit with 60 boys about 2 yrs ago. We lost 3 dens because of an internal conflict between a DL and the former CC. Those dens went literally down the hall to a "Friends of" pack that our church lets use space, since they don't have a meeting place. Our pack has made peace with that and has made the effort to work with the other pack on scheduling space at the church. There are some other minor issues to work through, but what if they can't recharter, will they come to us and ask to merge packs, maybe?

Ahhhh Yes, the conundrum that continues... You will have some that say B/G should just be a Birthday Party for Cub Scouts, and some that push advancement for the pack by B/G, which puts a disadvantage for boys just joining in the fall and undo pressure on DL's who are also starting in the fall to get the boys advancements done in 5-6 months, instead of 9 mos.

Our pack falls into that latter category because that's the way it always has been done. As CM, I'm trying to change that mentality, but it's hard to do. My busiest times of the year are now and right at the beginning of school. My DL's have gotten the hard part done by getting their advancements done, Now it's up to me to give them a break and plan some pack activities to have some fun and still provide a solid program. We've still got our Spring campout coming up, A Pack service project, and spring recruiting efforts to do. Then I can think about the summer with Day Camp and Resident Camp back to back.

Baseball is a prevelent player for us as well, I just have to keep the boys engaged to keep them coming back during the spring. I'll still have some miss the Spring campout because of baseball games, even though we scheduled this 9 months ago and had the calendar already set. That's OK, more BBQ brisket for the rest of us on the campout

Everybody starts at the same spot in Boy Scouts, no matter what they did in Cub Scouts. Demonstrate the ability.

Even the boys that came from my pack into the troop had to demonstrate all the requirements before I signed them off, even though I knew they could do it.

While this boy and his den "slid through" the AoL requirements for joining a troop, Oh well, you can't hold it against him. Just have him work on the requirements for a little bit, maybe have one of the other scouts work with him.

It's your call, since your doing the SMC for these boys. Hold them to a higher standard because they deserve that, not because of what Daddy or his CM says. If Daddy wants to cause a fuss, you know where the complaint forms are located.

it can't be a place you've already been to already, and it has to be a high adventure type destination

Why so restrictive? and why does it have to be HA?

I've been to alot of places that I would love to go back to and spend more time at. Yosemite was amazing, Yellowstone is beautiful, The Grand Canyon is awe inspiring. Florida Keys, Niagra Falls. Mt. Ranier, San Francisco, Rocky mountains, Philmont, The Black Hills of S.Dakota,Hawaii, just to name a few of the places I've been. The only one that was Scout related was Philmont . Everything else with the exception of Hawaii, was just getting in the car and driving till we decided to stop.

The best trip I've ever taken as a Scout or Scouter was our trip to Valley Forge in February. The highlight for me was not sleeping in the cold weather, but standing in Independence Hall and seeing where the Declaration of Independance was signed by men who chose to not live under the Throne. The boys that went on that trip have said it was one of their favorite trips outside of the Triple Crown stuff.

If I had to pick something, I guess Gettysburg is my next major trip I need to make, or the Appalachian Trail.But I would also be content to go back to Washington D.C. to spend more time at the Smithsonian. It doesn't have to be HA all the time. 

E92,

Thanks for the History lesson. Great Info, glad to know I thought I hadn't seen anything either way. So the plan will be if they want to sew them on, it's their call. My son will be getting the blank canvas from me.

Thanks Base. Yea I ment shirts at bfast and dinner, not full uni's. I made the mistake of doing BM with Scoutson's tan uni and it was a horrible mess when I took off the Diamond and arrows.

So now Bearson gets a brand new uni (glad I bought one during the BOGO sale)and it was the microfiber. Mrs OTN liked how soft it was!

I'm going to encourage the parents to get the tans and not push the blues another year. We need to restock the uniform closet and I've got some single piece unit numbers with Veteran bar ready to go in place of the 3 seperate numbers.

AK,

I think I've only seen a couple of the Webelos Diamonds in stock at the SS. It's mainly for decoration, not advancement purposes. Our council has been blessed by a benefactor who pays for all rank advancement patches as long as you use the electronic advancement form. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of doctrine the benefactor has put in place to have the latest and greatest rank patches. I do know the SS had the centennial ranks before the official announcement.

Coincedence? Maybe!

So with all the uniform discussion being tossed about, I figured I would throw my issue out there for the masses.

Bear Son and his den are about to join the Webelos ranks in June and we allow our Webelos to wear the Tan uni and pick a "patrol patch". My question is about what to do with the ranks and arrow points from the blue uni.

Do I sew them on the tan, even though I can put the WEB badge on after completing the WEB Badge requirements, which at the minimum is 3 months. or....Do we leave a blank canvas until they earn the WEB Badge.

This then begs the next question: Does the Bear rank get the short end of the stick by being on the blue uni for only a few months (if it was earned in February or March) and thus the completed diamond is only shown for a few months with Bobcat, Tiger, Wolf and Bear.

I'm sure this will come up from our parents before we go to Webelos Resident Camp during the summer and the camp does require full uniforming during breakfast and dinner.

Thanks for the input.

I have 2 Centennial Uni Tops. 1 for the Troop I serve, 1 for the Pack I serve. I also have an ODL top that was my first Scouter Uni when Scoutson started as a Tiger (where did that time go?)

I was able to get the first switchbacks (with the boot zippers) for 5.00 at Scoutstore when they discontinued them (wish I had picked up a couple extra at the time). Also just picked up the latest switchbacks during the BOGO sale.

As far as the "walking resume", I only have my TCDL knot on my Cub Scout Uni, I think I'm eligible for the Scouter training Knot, if I ever filled the paperwork out, I might put it on my Troop Uni.I also wear my WB beads on Special occasions. But I don't plan on putting CS knots on the Troop Uni. I think they should stay seperate. JMO though.

Cito,

Welcome to the forums! Thank you for giving back to Scouting what Scouting has given you.

I've got to say, you are in for a great treat at WB at Philmont. I took the course offered through Circle 10 there as well, and the CD for the course you're taking is a great Scouter and a good friend. He is the former SM and CM of the troop and pack I'm with now.Needless to say, I have to follow in some pretty big shoes! Actually, there are a lot of great scouters on that course. I wish you the best, CM is the greatest job!

Great Job SP!!!

How are you handling the translation barrier with inviting from the Hispanic schools?

I ask, because one of the schools that feeds our pack is becoming more Hispanic because of the neighborhood make up. We've had a hard time recruiting there because of the language barrier. I know if I could get some of those boys to sign up I would be getting the whole family to sign up as well. Not literally, but the whole family does come out to den meetings and supports the boy in his endeavors.

Now get that District Tiger program up and running, and you'll be out of a job!

Our pack uses both the Uniform and an Activity shirt and we run in to the same issues you are having. The boys would rather put on a t shirt than button up a uniform and wear a neckerchief.

I stress to the boys the importance of the uniform and how people perceive the image of a boy in his uniform. If we are performing an official function of the Boy Scouts of America, then we wear the uniform, and yes, Den meetings are an official function of the Cub Scout program. If we are doing something where the uniform could get damaged or isn't practical, we will let them know to wear the activity t's.

I've also told the boys if they want to be picked for Color Guard duty, they better be in uniform. I will not pick any boy who's wearing a t shirt.

You can also do a surpise uniform inspection with inspection patches as reward. It doesn't have to be all "Douglas Niedermeyer" like. (Is that a pledge pin on your uniform?!?!?!)

Make it fun for the boys, so they'll think about it the next time.

Also, remember....Practice what you preach. If the leadership is wearing a uniform when they want the boys to wear the uniform, the boys will see that.

Night hikes are great! Kids have a good time with them.

Obviously, flashlights or headlamps for everybody.

If you have time, prewalk the trail and add some markers (rope, stones,tree limbs) to keep everybody on the right trail.

I incoorperated a somewhat scary story, when I took my pack on a night hike at our last campout.

Our trail circled around a lake and I was able to use some of the natural environment to tell the story about 2 friends who grew up around this lake many years before it became a state park.

During a storm, the boys got seperated and left clues of where the other was at but they never found each other again. The big moral of the story was using the buddy system all the time.

Also had one of my den leaders walking around the outside of the trail, on the gravel road outside the lake, shaking trees, and making all sorts of racket to keep the boys on edge.

Our hike ended with us about 1/4 mile from the campsite, we hiked back on the gravel road to the campsite with our campfire going strong and smores waiting for the boys.

Even Webelos who think they have done it all, still want an adventure. Give 'em that adventure, and have fun.

Good Luck!

I can't shake my head, because the whooshing from the prop wash is making me have to hold on to something.

I don't know if I would necessarily add stuff to the store, but I would take away some stuff.

Get rid of the arts/crafts stuff. I'm not talking about Pinewood Derby, Raingutter Regatta, or Space Derby, and now, Blastcar. Those are trademarked BSA items, they should be in the Scout store only.

I can go to the hobby and craft store and get 1000 pony beads for 7 or 8 dollars, and they'll last me for years. Same goes for colored plastic cord or leatherwork. I can get a better value at my local hobby arts and crafts vs. the Scout store.

I fully understand the reason some of the "non uniform" gear is in the stores. When BSA stopped "franchising" the right to sell uniforms and merchandise to 3rd party vendors (Yes, I remember going into JC Penney to buy my Scout uniform, and ordering gear from the catalog as well) They had to treat it as they're own trademark- just like Sports Franchises do with their own likeness and logo's for stuff that is sold through outside vendors. So, I get that they need to sell they're own stuff. I don't have a problem with that. Actually those shirts and hats make great raffle items when they've been discounted. Have picked up some Cub T-shirts for 4.00 to give away to the pack.Some great deals can be had from the clearance section. ScoutStuff is doing a BOGO offer on the supplex uniforms now, Scout stores are honoring those prices. Was able to get a Tan uni for my soon to be Webelos, and get some pants for Scout son who has decided to grow 6" in the last year.

I would also like to see One CS Hat for all the ranks, or at least One for Tiger, Wolf,Bear, and One for Webs. I do like the different colored neckers for the Cubs, but our pack also provides a necker, unit number and Pack T-shirt for every boy that joins.

If I could add something to the store, it would be a static display for some of the items that are on sale through the ScoutStuff website that aren't available in the store. I'd like to see some of the artwork available, Reproductions of Rockwell pieces for example. I know that's unrealistic, since floor space is at a premium and just creates more confusion and frustration. "It's in the store, why don't you carry it?"

I do have to give Kudos to the Scout store, for bringing in better quality camping gear. I got an Osprey Aether backpack at the SS for around the same price as REI. I don't mind spending a little more money to keep the kids at the Store employed, as long as the quality is in line with my perceived value of what I'm getting.If I've ever needed anything Special ordered, they've always taken care of it. I've always been treated fairly and the staff has always gone out of their way to help me out at the Scout store, that deserves MY loyalty.

1) Facilitate and lead the God and Me class for 1-3 graders

2) Coordinate and Lead the Pack in the pledge of Allegiance and presentation of Colors at a City Council meeting

3) Scouting for Food Coordinator for the Troop

4) Become First Aid,CPR,AED certified for the Pack and Troop

5) Serve as Cubmaster for District Cub Scout Day Camp

3 years later, I'm still serving as Cubmaster for Day Camp. Apparently, It's true, once you get roped into Key Staff, they don't let you go

I used to be a Beaver!

If it weren't for Beavers, the rest of the critters would just wander around aimlessly!

Awesome Job Fish!! Those are Great.

We only do Career Arrows for all the boys who are leaving the pack. We let the DL's choose the arrows and how they want to decorate them. The parents usually spend the last "official" Den Meeting making the arrows for the boys.

The last few years have been different designs. One Year, all the parents used the colored thread to signify the achievements. Last year, they used tape or painted them. This year, they had the arrows with the hanging feathers and added beads for the achievements. I do like the added personal touch you gave it.

One good round of Full contact Boy Scout Dodgeball will pretty much clear any room!

When I finish up a Pack Meeting, I'll do my CM minute, we'll do the closing flag ceremony, and then I tell EVERYBODY in the room, nobody leaves until they grab at least 1 chair and put it away. I also like to remind them that our CO has been gracious enough to let us use THEIR gym, and we are guests of the church and must act as so. The boys still will want to play with the stuff in the gym and I still have to remind them to put it away.

During the Pack Meeting, build up to the crescendo of the Meeting by having the Loud activity in the middle of it, instead of near the end. This way they're winding down to the CM minute and closing. Or, move your pack meetings outside. Now that spring is here, and Daylight Savings Time has started, let them burn that energy outside. Our boys have done indoor pack meetings for the last 3 months or so, they've got a little cabin fever, and are ready to be outside more.

At the end of the day, I ended up with the course straw Resistol (that was our Class A hat), a course baseball cap (Class B Hat), 5 Dry Fit activity Shirts (Bought 3 of them), a Fleece Jacket I bought, and a wood nameplate for the right pocket. It had our name, course number, and a silhouette of our critter behind it, It was also signed by the CD.

When I got my beads, I was also given an engraved pen with our course number and motto on it. Don't think we could have fit a CSP in there anywhere!, But we did get some patches with our course logo on it. and a Nalgene. Come to think of it, I brought home quite a bit more than I took, in more ways than one.

I celebrated Pi day, by having Key Lime on my birthday!

You sure my 13 yo isn't secretly living at your house? Instead of the trombone, I'm graced with the beauty of the Tuba!

Sounds like he's just trying to find his place. It's been a tough yr from what it sounds like. At least he hasn't thrown out every excuse why he can't go, or just been down right hateful about it. He's still receptive about Scouting and other things. He'll get an "AHA" moment and the pieces will fall into place for him.

Keep supporting him like you have, and don't sweat the small stuff.

Here, Here on making the perfect pot of coffee! Or at least cobbler or some unique dinner recipe.

Go on a few campouts, sit back and just observe the boys, watch the adults, learn the routines and help out where you can.

For the most part, you'll be just a driver for the boys. After that, logistical support as needed. There is always something to do, but that old saying about "Never do for a boy, what he can do for himself" ring very true in this situation.

Get out of CM mode when you go to the troop, It's OK!!! The boys will figure out what to do.

A good friend in the troop always tells me about Boy Scouts and especially campouts, It's like watching sausage being made, not very pretty to watch, but once it's done, it's pretty good.

It's OK to be an ASM at large, and just help out the SM and other ASM's as needed.

I always get a good chuckle when I see Dad's come on campouts, especially right after their son's crossover, and they spend more time napping in their chair because we tell them to just sit back and observe.

Here's something from our troop page about adults attending camp:

Quite simply, our troop policy requires adults to cook, eat, and tent separately from the Scouts (even dads & sons). We are safely nearby, but not smothering close. Sure, go ahead and visit the patrol sites (not just your son's), talk to your son (and the other Scouts), ask what's going on or how things are going. But give the guys room to grow while you enjoy the view. Please don't hover over the boys, especially while they are cooking, cleaning, making, breaking camp or building a fire. Avoid the temptation to direct them and avoid the temptation to give advice. Don't jump in just to prevent a mistake from happening (unless it's serious). We all learn best from our mistakes. And let the patrol leaders lead.Your job is tough, challenging, and ultimately rewarding, because your son will be a man the day after tomorrow.

You'll figure out your niche soon enough, besides you'll then be able to eat those good campout meals again. The ASM's in our troop love to eat, and eat well we do!