Ohio_Scouter

We took 2 crews of 11 folks each to Philmont during the summer of 2007. Each crew (612-O1 and 612-O2) did a 75-mile trek. Our preparation basically consisted of individual training and completing 4 of 6 scheduled preparation hikes prior to our treks.

We're located in southwestern Ohio, so our prep hikes were conducted from October, 2006 through May, 2007 at Hocking Hills State Park, OH, Red River Gorge, KY, East Fork State Park, OH, Shawnee State Park, OH, Zaleski State Park, OH, and the Mischa Mokwa Trail located in Cumberland Gap National Park, KY.

These hikes ranged in distance from 15 - 20 miles each in some of the hilliest locations in southern Ohio and central Kentucky. Our last hike along the Mischa Mokwa Trail in Cumberland Gap National Park was the longest (20 miles) and highest (about 3,500 feet in elevation). That's as high as it gets in our area.

There is an earthen dam located in our neighborhood which was built for flood control along one of the local rivers. On each side of the dam, there are a series of 100 steps which are perfect for getting your legs in shape. Three or four times a week, I would walk these steps for about 1 hour each day to help condition my legs. Eventually, I was walking up and down these steps with a full pack weighing about 50 lbs.

Unfortunately for me, towards the end of October, 2006, I had a heart attack and had to undergo quadruple coronary artery bypass surgery. Consequently, I was unable to attend our first 2 prep hikes scheduled for October and November, 2006. Fortunately, though, I also underwent a rigorous cardiac rehabilitation program at the local hospital, and by February, 2007, my cardiologist let me attend the last 4 Philmont prep hikes with our crews.

By time our treks rolled around in June, 2007, I had recovered enough that my doctor allowed me to travel to Philmont with the rest of our crews to hike our treks. When I got there, the Philmont medical staff checked me out, and after a short rest to help lower my blood pressure and checking to insure that I had sufficient medication, they let me hit the trail. We finished our treks without incident, and we thought it was the best high adventure trip of our scouting careers. It amazed me how physically fit you can become if you are truly motivated !

If you don't fall into the river, nothing will happen if you don't wear a wetsuit. If, however, you do fall into 50 degree F. water without a wetsuit for more than about 60 seconds, you may drown because you will be so cold that you may not be able to swim to safety.

When you fall in the river, the reason you are supposed to go down river feet first is so that you can navigate the river and avoid hitting your head on the rocks or other debris and become unconscious--not good when you are trying to save yourself. Better to have a dislocated knee than be rendered unconscious while trying to survive a raging river.

The chances of falling into a river for very long will depend on several things including the class of rapids you are traversing and your guide's ability to successfully navigate the whitewater in a raft. The guide's main job is to help steer the raft down the river safely and hopefully get everyone out alive in order to do it again at another time (repeat business).

If you fall out of the raft, don't think that the guide will leave all the other passengers just to fish you out of the water. You are pretty much on your own, so make sure you know how to survive on your own in 50 degree water until you can get safely ashore.

If you don't believe me, verify this for yourself by noticing all the "hold harmless" clauses in the waivers your group must sign before your outfitter/guide will let you on the river.

As I've said several times now, be safe first, and have fun always.

"Okay, in fairness, men will continue to wear clothes that are two sizes too small rather than admit that they've gained weight (just look around at roundtable). "Yep, I still fit a size large" as the buttons threaten to explode and the seat of the pants stretches to the point that it is nearly transparent."

Yeah, but never shoes. Philmont is serious business .

Scoutingagain is absolutely correct. Most reputable outfitters will rent you a wetsuit which will protect you should you fall into 50 degree water for about 1 hour.

Have fun. We did a 23-mile whitewater run down the Gallatin River in Montana a few years ago on some Class IV and V rapids. Temperature was about 50 - 55 degrees F. It was a most excellent trip, and the scenery was to die for.

For shoes, just wear anything with non-slippery soles that will dry out quickly.

Be safe, and have fun. Make sure to wear a wetsuit for protection against the cold water during the run. If you'll be on the Chattahoochee, water temperature will be around 50 degrees Farenheit in April.

wadahoot,

I've never heard of a bad Philmont experience yet, but I'm sure they exist. I believe that 99% of all Philmont treks are excellent, including my trek last summer with my Eagle Scout son and all his buddies from our troop. It was the best activity of our scouting careers. There's just something awe-inspiring about standing atop of Mt. Phillips at 11,751 feet at sunrise on Father's Day with all our scouts.

Feel free to read our trip journals from prior Philmont treks in 1998, 1993, and 1988 if you like at:

http://www.troop325bsa.com/highad/index.html

Good luck to your son. Make sure he reads everything he can get his hands on about Philmont, and also make sure that he embarks upon a serious training program to prepare himself.

Good job, Gern. Airway, Brathing, Circulation...Your training paid off well! I'll bet the girl's brother wishes he could locate you and your daughter to say thanks for saving his sister's life.

Welcome back, newken. Like wingnut says, you can quit, but you can never leave Scouting .

Way to go, Gern! I'm proud of you, man. More details, please.

Just last weekend, we awarded a certificate of recognition to one of our Eagle Scouts for saving a life. Seems he performed the Heimlich maneuver on a classmate and was able to clear the airway and keep him from choking.

A few years ago, a former scout performed CPR on my daughter who had collapsed at work due to coronary long Q-T syndrome (ventricular fibrilation) until the EMS squad arrived and revived her. If he hadn't responded so quickly, my daughter would have certainly died. Since he had been trained through the American Red Cross, I made sure that he received the ARC life saver award. Needless to say, I am eternally grateful for Scout first-aid training.

Frenchman0092,

I'm not sure about those EBOR statistics, but if you have finished all the requirements and have been living the Scout Oath and Scout Law, I'm sure you'll do fine. Good luck to you, and let us know how it goes.

WildernesStudent,

Pretty awesome, eh? This is why Boy Scouts stress safety, being prepared, and first-aid so much. Every time I hear about a scout saving a life, I couldn't be prouder .

Happy Easter to AnnieinMpls and all my friends on Scouter.com .

Hops,

I think rappelling is fun, too, and I'm way over the hill. Our guys go to Red River Gorge, KY, every year. We do a 217 foot rappell down Indian Staircase (check out the pics here):

http://www.troop325bsa.com/photos/rrg2005/index.html

We think the really tough part is trying to climb back up using our rope ascenders and prusick cords.

On Belay; Belay On; Ready to Rappel; Rappel Away! .

Wish I could help, Gern, but our guys did Norther Tier out of Atikokan, too, in 2005. I'm sure someone else here has been to both bases and will be able to she some light.

I suggest the greater Kansas City area, the geographic center of the U.S. I can get there by car in under 12 hours, and all major airlines and Amtrak run right through there, plus it will give me a chance to meet all those wonderful Missouri scouts and scouters and have a great steak dinner, too .

I'm sure John or Gunny could recommend a good location to National.

Welcome back, Lieut106. Thanks for returning to Scouting to help our youth. This is an excellent forum to get back up to speed on what's been happening in the world of scouting lately, including the various attacks on scouting.

I've never been on the Chattahoochee River, but here's what the National Park Service says about boating on the river. Be safe, and have fun:

The 48 miles of the Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area is available for raft, canoe, kayak, motor boat and other small boat use year round. Jet skis are not permitted at any time. The river remains a cool temperature year-round, rarely getting warmer than 50 degrees Fahrenheit. The river within the park is open for boating from 30 minutes before sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset. Night boating is not permitted in the park.

The river offers excellent opportunities for leisurely paddling a raft, canoe or kayak to observe wildlife and wildflowers, do some fishing, or simple relaxing recreation.

On days when Buford Dam is not releasing water, the river below the dam is calm "flat water" with an occasional class I/II shoals or rapids. Currents can be strong around submerged rocks and jagged tree snags that are found in the river. Rubber-soled shoes are a must for tackling slippery rocks and the occasional broken glass bottle.

The river is accessible by boat North of Morgan Falls Dam at Bowmans Island, Abbotts Bridge, Medlock Bridge, Jones Bridge, Island Ford, and Chattahoochee River Park along Bull Sluice Lake.

South of Morgan Falls Dam the river is accessible by boat at Morgan Falls Park, Johnson Ferry, Powers Island and Paces Mill.

Even if you don't have your own boat to use, there is equipment available for rental. The Chattahoochee NRA does not rent boats directly, however there are several vendors licensed to rent canoes, kayaks, rafts, and tubes for day use on the river.

Like I told you about Backpacking and Canoeing, find your local scout shop and purchase a copy of the Swimming merit badge pamphlet. It has lots of great tips on swimming. It is one of the oldest scout merit badges (created in 1911) and is required to attain the rank of Eagle Scout. Ask your Eagle Scout friend about it. IMO, every scout should earn it. The pamphlet only costs about $3.00, and it's well worth the investment.

Here is a website that will detail the requirements for this merit badge:

http://www.meritbadge.org/?title=Swimming

Also, like we've said before, don't underestimate hypothermia. Many an outdoorsman has succumbed to it, so know how to recognize, avoid, and treat it if necessary. It's all about being prepared--a BSA thing.

Be safe first, and have fun always.

(Edited to fix merit badge link)

(This message has been edited by Ohio_Scouter)(This message has been edited by Ohio_Scouter)

Like I told you about backpacking, go to your local scout shop and purchase the canoeing merit badge pamphlet and read it. It has a lot of great tips on canoeing, and it's well worth the $3.00 investment.

Also, if you think you'll be falling into the water in wintertime, make sure you understand hypothermia and associated first aid--also in the merit badge pamphlet.

Also, read the Guide to Safe Scouting on Aquatics Safety/Canoeing.

Have fun and be safe.

You are correct, Barry. I was referring especially to the adults, but I believe that an out-of-shape scout may also fail to complete a trek, though much less likely.

Greg,

I agree! If they have just begun their training program, I'll lay odds that some of them won't be in good enough shape to finish the trek.

Oak Tree,

Bring your boys to most any part of Ohio between December and March and we should be able to accommodate you. The closer you get to the eastern suburbs of Cleveland, the better your chances of camping in an over-abundance of snow. If you find that it isn't snowing at the time, just wait about 30 minutes.

We avoided the disappointment problem in our Troop by using a first-come-first-served process. Early on, we informed all members of the Troop that whoever paid the Treasurer their trek deposit got their names on the crew lists. It worked well for us. Too bad the Troop didn't form 2 crews of seven scouts and scouters. That way, everone could have gone.

Oftentimes, scouts and scouters will have to cancel, too. This happened in our case last summer. Originally, we had 2 fully staffed crews of 12, but by time the trek rolled around, 2 people had to cancel for one reason or another (e.g., work schedules, summer school, etc.), so we went with 2 crews of 11 each.

Hi Bill,

Sounds like we all did the right thing this weekend. They closed my work place on Friday afternoon because of the storm, so we went home for the day. Dayton got hit with between 15" and 24" of snow this weekend, so we decided to stay home and make the trip up to Cleveland next weekend, weather permitting.

Glad to hear everyone survived the weekend to camp another day .

In my opinion, if you can find a troop or crew in your area that is in training for a backpacking trek at Philmont Scout Ranch, that would be ideal. Philmont is a Scout Ranch located in northern New Mexico where scouts from all over the country come to hike and backpack for about 2-weeks at a time. The treks average in length between 50 and 100 miles. Most of the scouts who attend range in age from 14-18 years old. They are also accompanied by adult leaders who train with them. I think a group of 20-year olds would fit right in.

Also, as Lisabob said, pick up a copy of the backpacking merit badge pamphlet at the local scout shop and read it. It's chock full of useful hiking and backpacking tips and well worth the $3.00 investment.